There are anti-vaccine people who don't vaccinate their kids for what I think are @#$% reasons. But people also don't realize you need booster vaccinations for some things your whole life because the immunity wears off after a few years. Like Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis (Whooping Cough).

After watching these and other videos on Whooping Cough, I realized I had it a year ago even though I have been vaccinated at least twice. I even know what #$%@ woman I caught it from. She is an anti-vaccinator, doesn't believe in evolution, home schools her poor daughter who is behind, and has tumors in her kidney, liver, and gonads but isn't treating them.

It was only after getting it that I understood how people could die from a cough, although I thought it was some kind of super flu or something at the time. You are unable to get a breath to cough again and when you do the gunk is too thick to move much. I was suffocating. Some people die, especially babies.

From the Whooping Cough Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pertussis:
"Immunization does not confer lifelong immunity; a 2011 CDC study indicated that protection may only last three to six years. This covers childhood, which is the time of greatest exposure and greatest risk of death from pertussis. Infection induces incomplete natural immunity that wanes over time. A 2005 study said estimates of the duration of infection-acquired immunity range from 7 to 20 years"

I could add more links but won't.
The first video is of a baby with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52OoW0sXfZg
The next video is of a 14 year-old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCQjXHiR8L0 Only the first few minutes, the rest he is sleeping
The next is of an adult woman after a few weeks of having it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIsQjsUJSiM
The next is of an adult man with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31tnXPlhA7w

So how about a picture of gram stained Pertussis bacteria and the Pertussis toxin complex and a link to an online textbook that talks about it in three pages:
http://textbookofbacteriology.net/pertussis.html

Apparently people confuse Medical with Political.
That's okay, the majority of the people I have encountered here seem to want everyone to die anyway.

Apparently people confuse Medical with Political.
That's okay, the majority of the people I have encountered here seem to want everyone to die anyway

You can blame so called important people "actors" from Hollywood and the threat of Autism they say comes from vaccinating children .

There are some points about what they say but those concerns are about the type and how many given in a given time period and not the vaccines them self from things I've read .

There has been a increase of whopping cough here too , witch I suspect has more to do with the misinformation out there .

wish people would research instead of "You Tubing" for information or Blogs

---

Apparently people confuse Medical with Political.
That's okay, the majority of the people I have encountered here seem to want everyone to die anyway.

Nah it's not that.
It's just that when someone calls himself mojo, people really are looking for the "Mojo".
You sound like a pharma-rep selling Whooping-Cough vaccine.
You must understand our reluctance to embrace your condemnation of our reception to your spiel.
You don't like us,...
maybe we don't like you? lol.

I think you misunderstood mojo's comment. I believe he was talking about Dr. Oz types who have agenda's, political ones, when they talk about medicine. Don't think he was talking about posters here.

As to the reception here, silence can mean agreement.

---

I think you are trying to pick a fight and are frustrated that people are ignoring your efforts to pick a fight.

Besides, as I have put elsewhere, I am not attached to any post, I don't intend my posts to be kept for posterity. 8) I am uncertain why they don't let you delete your posts or why they don't delete everyone's posts after a month. But it doesn't matter either. 8)

I think vaccines are important. I researched a little before I posted that so I wouldn't tell people info that was wrong. Kinda dry mechanical facts but its a disease so I just gave them.. X• -zzzZZZ... And the videos are really good at showing what Whooping Cough is like when you have it. I don't want people to get it, or to give it to other people, its a miserable disease to have. Nothing any more than that. So now you know. 8)

Apparently people confuse Medical with Political.
That's okay, the majority of the people I have encountered here seem to want everyone to die anyway

You can blame so called important people "actors" from Hollywood and the threat of Autism they say comes from vaccinating children .

There are some points about what they say but those concerns are about the type and how many given in a given time period and not the vaccines them self from things I've read .

There has been a increase of whopping cough here too , witch I suspect has more to do with the misinformation out there .

wish people would research instead of "You Tubing" for information or Blogs

Trump is from Hollywood? Perhaps you were thinking of Jenny McCarthy, though she's from Chicago. Or Bill Maher, though he was born in NYC and grew up in New Jersey.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

I see several ads on TV telling those of us over 50 that we should get a pneumonia vaccination to reduce our chances of being infected. Well last week my Dr. gave me a prescription to get the shot. I took it to the local Walgreens pharmacy. The pharmacist looked at the Rx and then asked me how old I am. She then stated that I need to take Prevnar 13 and when she checked my coverage told me neither medicare no my prescription coverage from United health care covers that drug and that the shot would be $250. I declined and will be contacting my Dr's office for a recommendation for another vaccine.

---

Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Obamacare!

As a child I had Whooping Cough once. Very unpleasant.
But I have been told that once you had it you are immune for the rest of your life.
Appearantly not but here only 12 persons mostly infant childrens have died from it of a population of 10 millions since 1996.
So why the need of vaccination when you are adult?

I'm not sure if this taking a political position on the anti-vaccine movement, or is a venting of frustration on a personal medical event.

Officially, American adults are recommended to have one Tdap (tetanus/diptheria/pertussis) booster. The rest of the 10-year boosters are usually with the Td (tetanus/diptheria). There are probably no other vaccinations that are given as boosters for most of the general population. However, many people do not regularly see a primary care doctor, and primary care doctors often fail to include vaccinations in health maintenance and prevention, or to do them on time. Those are the medical issues. Also, the infection might not be pertussis, and it might not have come from the woman.

For the political issue: With specific exceptions, adult vaccination is not one of them, people have the right to be stupid with their health. Generalized, mandatory medical interventions for adults are unethical, undermines the role of medical professionals, and is contrary to medical practice. I can go into a long-winded explanation, if needed. However, you do have the right to be frustrated when people refuse to make the seemingly obvious good choices, especially when they base their reasons on stuff like superstition, rumors, and pseudoscience.

The controversy around mandatory childhood vaccination is a bit different, though. That involves the good of the child versus parental rights. Except for stuff like imminent, life-saving procedures, that balance is very hard to make.

I see several ads on TV telling those of us over 50 that we should get a pneumonia vaccination to reduce our chances of being infected. Well last week my Dr. gave me a prescription to get the shot. I took it to the local Walgreens pharmacy. The pharmacist looked at the Rx and then asked me how old I am. She then stated that I need to take Prevnar 13 and when she checked my coverage told me neither medicare no my prescription coverage from United health care covers that drug and that the shot would be $250. I declined and will be contacting my Dr's office for a recommendation for another vaccine.

It's my impression that most American health insurance companies follow the USPSTF (United States Preventive Services Task Force)guidelines for preventive health issues. The pneumococcal vaccination is recommended for age 65 and older, for most people.

Given earlier if there are certain risk factors, such as diabetes, heart or lung diseases, being gay, etc. If you don't have those risk factors and are younger than 65, the insurance probably won't pay for it. If you do have risk factors, your doctor would have to document them and possibly file a claim. If you do have risk factors, you might also be recommended for other vaccinations.

The TV ad is either following some other guideline, or making any "recommendation" they like. They might not be violating laws as long as they word their statements correctly.

Your doctor might just be giving you something he thinks you want, or may not remember the guidelines. We often have to look up those little details, can't remember everything. Also, guidelines are only guidelines. If the doctor has good reasons for prescribing, you feel the reasons are good, you feel the risks are worth it, and the doctor explains the alternatives, then that would trump the guidelines.

Another question is whether the vaccination would go into your deductible, if you have one. But I thought the Obamacare makes most stuff under the preventive health guidelines as 100% covered. Your policy book might list all the preventive health stuff, or maybe you may have to call the insurance an ask directly.

I'm not sure if this taking a political position on the anti-vaccine movement, or is a venting of frustration on a personal medical event.

For the political issue: With specific exceptions, adult vaccination is not one of them, people have the right to be stupid with their health. Generalized, mandatory medical interventions for adults are unethical, undermines the role of medical professionals, and is contrary to medical practice. I can go into a long-winded explanation, if needed. However, you do have the right to be frustrated when people refuse to make the seemingly obvious good choices, especially when they base their reasons on stuff like superstition, rumors, and pseudoscience.

The controversy around mandatory childhood vaccination is a bit different, though. That involves the good of the child versus parental rights. Except for stuff like imminent, life-saving procedures, that balance is very hard to make.

Vaccination has been decided by society a long time ago. If you travel, you will be forced to show a record of vaccinations. Society has determined that they will not allow a potential infection to enter their midst. Nor do they let animals cross without vaccination and/or quarantine. They inspect fruits, vegetables and lumber for pests. There is no difference between those rules and making you have the vaccination if you just happen to already be inside. Perhaps they should offer expulsion if you refuse.

---

Well, my post sure has been turned to political things. Oh well, people are talking about it even if it is just a handful. Whooping Cough is an awful disease to have. Fortunately most people don't get it any more because of vaccinations.

Vaccination has been decided by society a long time ago. If you travel, you will be forced to show a record of vaccinations. Society has determined that they will not allow a potential infection to enter their midst. Nor do they let animals cross without vaccination and/or quarantine. They inspect fruits, vegetables and lumber for pests. There is no difference between those rules and making you have the vaccination if you just happen to already be inside. Perhaps they should offer expulsion if you refuse.

Not sure what you mean by "decided by society." Vaccinations are accepted by modern medicine, and most governments and lay people as essential to preventative medicine and public health. It has not been accepted as mandatory for the general public in the US or any of its states. There are only laws for vaccination requirements to receive certain public services, public employment, and healthcare employment. To my knowledge, no laws exist that have any kind of compulsory medical interventions for the general public. Such laws can be made on utilitarian arguments, but such a law would probably be easily challenged on the basis of human rights, medical ethics, and medical practice, or at least according the evidence based medicine and ethical principles taught in most US medical schools. Except in very specific, case-by-case situations that are already outlined in public policy and medical practice, I would never comply with a hypothetical law that would force a patient to do something against their will. Vaccinations are far from qualifying as these special exceptions, such as inability to provide informed consent, or presenting immediate harm to self and others. I can give you the details of why it would be inconsistent with the practice of medicine, if you'd like.

As for traveling, I have never been asked for immunizations in the Asian or European countries that I've visited. The only mandatory international vaccination I've dealt with is yellow fever in certain high-risk countries. I think the only other one, that I've not dealt with, is meningicoccal for pilgrims to Saudi Arabia. All the other vaccinations are only strong or optional recommendations. One of the few strong ones is for malaria. You can check the WHO website for more details. As far as I know, there are no generalized vaccination requirements for visitors into the US, only for immigration and certain long-term visas. Maybe there are requirements for specific countries with endemic infections. I wouldn't be opposed to stronger rules for short term visitors, but I presume there aren't many because of feasibility issues in terms of time and resources for brief visits. Vaccinations for human travelers is different, as they should be, from customs requirements for livestock and pets. Requirements for humans require a more stringent review of evidence and epidemiology, and the public health consequences are often different.

When I was in the U.S.A.F. I was on a team that was required to respond any where in the world on short notice. So our shots had to be kept up to date. We had to have the yellow fever shot But I belive that was good for ten years. How ever the Cholera shot was every six months, That would make my shoulder extremely sore for a week.
I believe in vaccinations and booster shots. As I operate a CNC machine Its a rare week I don't get cut at least once. I make sure my tetanus is up to date. And what with whooping cough making a comeback I will see if my insurance will cover that shot also. I don't need to get and or be a carrier of it.

---

[/quote]

Old James

I hope I can provide some information or perspectives that some may not have considered. Vaccinations has been a big media issue last year. Not sure if it still is.

To summarize the state of vaccination policy and guidelines in the US (not medical advice, just information anyone can find on their own, possibly outdated):

-Td and Tdap (once, in place of Td) are recommended boosters (every 10 years) for the average American. The influenza vaccine could be considered a booster, given every year. That one doesn't usually prevent infection, but lessens the duration or intensity of illness.

-There are no recommended vaccines for most healthy, non-senior adults that aren't already given in childhood or teen years. Most adult vaccinations for healthy adults are catch-up vaccinations for those who missed them as children or the vaccinations weren't developed when they were children. Senior adults, age 65 (sometimes earlier) have about 2.

-There are also no generalized requirements for an American citizen by law, only for immigrants or long term visitors, and possibly specific countries with certain endemic pathogens. There are special requirements for public services and employment, such as public schools, military, healthcare workers, etc.

-Those who have certain workplace risks, even living in a dormitory, should check with their employers for other recommendations or requirements.

-Travelers should check the WHO and the State Department websites. There are rarely any requirements, but often there are recommendations.

-Those with chronic diseases should make sure to ask their doctors at their routine checkups whether recommended vaccinations have been addressed. Cardiopulmonary diseases, diabetes, and chronic kidney disease are common ones that fall under the risk factors warranting additional or earlier immunizations.

-Vaccinations are not risk-free, i.e. allergic reactions, people with dysfunctional immune systems, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, even minor concerns ones such as irritation at injection sites. Be sure to discuss risks and benefits before accepting a vaccine, just as for any medical intervention.

-It's not "wrong" to ask your doctor for immunizations that aren't recommended for your particular situation, if you have reasons. Just know that insurance companies may not not pay for them. Some are inexpensive, $10-20 for the flu shot, $250+ for others such as HPV.

To summarize why there are no blanket laws to vaccinate the general public:

-It is against modern (and ancient) ethics and law (self-ownership, inviolable person, unalienable body) to force something onto another person's body. A forced medical treatment is a form of assault, just as kidnapping, physical violence, and rape are. The exceptions are when someone poses an immediate threat to themselves or others through purpose or negligence (incarceration, difficult arrests, cavity searches). Even then, the criteria is often stringent. An example of how narrow the interpretation can be is that it's illegal to attack someone who has just threatened your life and has turned around to leave, such as the pharmacist who shot an armed robber on his way out the store, or a Craigslist seller who ran over an armed robber who stole his merchandise. Not having vaccinations does not pose an immediate threat to others. The targeted infection may not happen, and if it did, it may not necessarily spread. Penalties on refusal to vaccinate would be future-crime. If vaccines were mandatory for everyone, then by extension, those with active infections like having a sore throat or herpes outbreak, would be committing crimes if they do not self-quarantine and go out in public.

-Medical evidence is a consensus of conflicting studies, each with a relatively poor statistical certainty when compared to other fields of science. Medical interventions sometimes turn out to have previously unknown risks, or cause more harm than good. No intervention has a guaranteed effect. Some interventions have different effects on different people. All interventions have risks and some degree of uncertainty. Doing everything "right" can still lead to the worst outcome. The role of modern medicine and the modern healthcare provider is to present options and recommendations, according to current knowledge and science, so that the individual patient can determine their personal goals and risk tolerances. It is not to tell a "mentally capable" patient what to do, especially against their will, even for their own good or if their concerns are based on false information.

-The best way to address an anti-vaxxer is to listen to their specific concerns and convince them through education. Using brute force may have unintended consequences, such as simply faking their immunization records and alienating them from licensed and proper healthcare.

-Parental refusal of medical advice for children is a more complicated legal and ethical issue. Usually, the line is drawn when the medical intervention can prevent imminent death or disability. Lack of vaccinations do not usually lead to imminent death or disability. The workaround for this has been to make vaccinations required, but sometimes with opt-outs (which are sometimes abused) for public education. The parent is then not exactly forced to vaccinate their children. They have a choice to not use the public school system.

I am abandoning this thread I started. It is a health issue to me, not political. The thread belongs to you people now.

@Jake, Vax is mandatory to attend school absent a Doctor expressly saying novax, in many places. Attending school is mandatory, in some places, home school not an option. Ergo vax is mandatory, in those places.

As to vax, today, yes the smallpox vax is no longer mandatory, but that is because smallpox only exists in the lab anymore.
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/05/135121451/how-the-pox-epidemic-changed-vaccination-rules

As I said, society has already made that decision on vax. History tends to repeat.

---