welfare make approximately $60,000 in free stuff annually

Frank where did you pull that from?

LOL! From government website data, right, Frank? Link us up! ;)

It seems Frank is going to keep it a secret where he got his unfounded assertion.

Well, Frank is not far wrong in his statement.

$60,000 / year is $5,000 / month.


Food (SNAP): $649/month (for a family of 4... more gets more)

Housing (Section 8): maximum of $2000/month. We are up to $2649/month.

TANF : $351/month (family of 4). up to $3000/month.

Health Care : A bit trickier to figure. The Federal benchmark premium is for the second-lowest premium on a ACA(Obamacare) Silver plan. The national average premium (in 2013) on that is $774/month before any tax credits or subsidies for the 'standard' family of 4. Now then Medicaid is better than a ACA Silver plan. There are ZERO out of pocket expenses on Medicaid. Totally free. So... let us just use the $744/month figure. We are now up to $3,774/month.

Now for another... Earned Income Credit on Federal income taxes. This is a refundable tax credit... roughly $7500/year or $625 / month. We are now up to $4,399 / month.

That is $52,788 / year. This is just the big 5 programs. There are loads of other Federal, State, and Local programs out there. Plus this is just for a family of 4. As I said before... More kids, more money.

Also, if you get SNAP, that (at least in Texas) means free school breakfasts and lunches for your school-age kids. $4/day... 20 days/month... $80/month per kid. 2 kids, that is another $160/month.

Free cell phones can easily net you another $200 / month. We are now up to $4,759 / month or $57,108 / year.

Add in transit (bus/train) subsidies for low income people. Are we there yet? Most likely.

The list goes on and on.

Frank is approximately correct in this. If he errs, it is on the low side.

Links? Spend a few minutes with Google. But the controversial one is likely going to be the health care one. I'll link that one.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/marketplace_premiums_ib_final.pdf

With this kind of drain on the public treasury (remember Taxpayer-Funded public treasury) it is little to no wonder that our economy is getting flushed... Again...

Flush me, J! (MiB II)

welfare make approximately $60,000 in free stuff annually

Frank where did you pull that from?

LOL! From government website data, right, Frank? Link us up! ;)

It seems Frank is going to keep it a secret where he got his unfounded assertion.

Well, Frank is not far wrong in his statement.

$60,000 / year is $5,000 / month.


Food (SNAP): $649/month (for a family of 4... more gets more)

Housing (Section 8): maximum of $2000/month. We are up to $2649/month.

TANF : $351/month (family of 4). up to $3000/month.

Health Care : A bit trickier to figure. The Federal benchmark premium is for the second-lowest premium on a ACA(Obamacare) Silver plan. The national average premium (in 2013) on that is $774/month before any tax credits or subsidies for the 'standard' family of 4. Now then Medicaid is better than a ACA Silver plan. There are ZERO out of pocket expenses on Medicaid. Totally free. So... let us just use the $744/month figure. We are now up to $3,774/month.

Now for another... Earned Income Credit on Federal income taxes. This is a refundable tax credit... roughly $7500/year or $625 / month. We are now up to $4,399 / month.

That is $52,788 / year. This is just the big 5 programs. There are loads of other Federal, State, and Local programs out there. Plus this is just for a family of 4. As I said before... More kids, more money.

Also, if you get SNAP, that (at least in Texas) means free school breakfasts and lunches for your school-age kids. $4/day... 20 days/month... $80/month per kid. 2 kids, that is another $160/month.

Free cell phones can easily net you another $200 / month. We are now up to $4,759 / month or $57,108 / year.

Add in transit (bus/train) subsidies for low income people. Are we there yet? Most likely.

The list goes on and on.

Frank is approximately correct in this. If he errs, it is on the low side.

Links? Spend a few minutes with Google. But the controversial one is likely going to be the health care one. I'll link that one.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/marketplace_premiums_ib_final.pdf

With this kind of drain on the public treasury (remember Taxpayer-Funded public treasury) it is little to no wonder that our economy is getting flushed... Again...

Flush me, J! (MiB II)

If you think these things are what is draining the economy, then please provide a breakdown of these costs are in relation to other things the government pays for.

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Reality Internet Personality

welfare make approximately $60,000 in free stuff annually

Frank where did you pull that from?

LOL! From government website data, right, Frank? Link us up! ;)

It seems Frank is going to keep it a secret where he got his unfounded assertion.

Well, Frank is not far wrong in his statement.

$60,000 / year is $5,000 / month.

But that's perhaps what a household can get in welfare.
A household can be anything between 1 or 2 persons or many.
How can you make any form of stats from that?

Major you used a family of 4, now divide your hypothetical 57K by 4 and I get a very different picture. $1425/ mo. hardly sounds like living high on the hog.
Remember Frank claimed it is an individual benefit.

people on so called welfare make approximately $60,000 in free stuff annually from our dwindling working class.

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Apologies, late to the thread.

Es, a couple of articles before the one you quoted the same author had this to say:

"...we now know that seven of the world’s largest investment banks paid Britain £21m tax on £3.6bn of profits they made in the UK in 2014. Five of them, including Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan, paid no UK corporation tax at all."

and

"Indeed, sometimes they go further, actually rigging markets. Deutsche Bank last year paid the largest Libor fine in history – £1.7bn – for its role in rigging the market in interbank interest rates in New York and London."

And while £1.7bn isn't peanuts, I'm sure we can all make an educated guess that the fine was most likely a bargain compared to the money made.

"In 2016, the lack of integrity in business across the west, and in Britain in particular, will become more politically salient. Whether it is food companies openly selling food that makes buyers unhealthy, car companies that dodge emission tests or investment banks being too clever about avoiding tax, consumers and citizens are going to ask ever harder questions about why today’s capitalism behaves with so little integrity."

Salient? LOL. Unfortunately I don't share this guy's optimism.

More importantly, I think our definitions of Capitalism, Socialism and Communism are severely outdated. They just don't apply anymore. Not the way they did when I was growing up. And especially not the way they did for anyone a couple or more decades older than I am.

This is Casino Capitalism. A totally different beast.

And when you couple it with psycho politicians, an unprecedented amount of lobbyists all across the western world, and a plethora of tax-havens to choose from....

Well, you get the picture.

PS Anyone else notice that "Think Tank" is slowly becoming a dirty word[s]?

Strange, the title of the thread is the same words that I would like to use here.

Namely the state of the global economy.

As usual, there should be made a separation between finances and the results by means of possible economical gain.

Remember back in the 1920 or 1930's when both the United States and also the rest of the world was suffering from a depression.

If you are the one who are handling or administering the budget in your business or firm, it should be somewhat difficult to deal with those numbers that end up in red.

They end up being in the wrong place of the table or chart, making any piechart for the representation of the numbers for a budget somewhat useless or possibly hard to understand or comprehend.

We should not forget that during that time of the recession, the U.S. Government chose to have the Hoover dam being constructed.

This is because even a deficit or a depression sometimes makes an investment a valuable undertaking to carry out, even though the end result might not necessarily be profitable.

An investment on its own should be based on a specific calculus when it comes to doing such a thing and whether or not such a thing might end up profitably or not, at least the desired thing became carried out.

Therefore, if an investment by means of a project ends up in a profitable way, one might also be able to speak about its possible value as well.

Well no one in their right mind actually thinks Obama was actually left wing.

So center politics is bad, but wing politics is good. Insightful.

I don't think he is a centrist either. He's on the same page as Reagan.

Since Reagan was centrist, signing the largest tax increase in history at the time ...

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Well no, anybody paying attention sees clearly that he's a tyrannical dictator.

Says the poster who claimed there are no toll roads in Texas and the US has the best economy in the world even though UNESCO stated that the US ranks second highest among all measured countries, with 23.1 per cent of children living in poverty, just under Romania's 25.6 per cent.
Guy why don't you get data not just voice paranoid opinions?

1) Why don't you show me someplace you can't go because of a toll road and

2) Try living *anywhere* outside the U.S. and then tell me you're staying because it's better.

A blank name again.
Awww, how sweet.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Well no, anybody paying attention sees clearly that he's a tyrannical dictator.

Says the poster who claimed there are no toll roads in Texas and the US has the best economy in the world even though UNESCO stated that the US ranks second highest among all measured countries, with 23.1 per cent of children living in poverty, just under Romania's 25.6 per cent.
Guy why don't you get data not just voice paranoid opinions?

1) Why don't you show me someplace you can't go because of a toll road and

2) Try living *anywhere* outside the U.S. and then tell me you're staying because it's better.

A blank name again.
Awww, how sweet.

Did you expect any other result from Guy when he gets caught out on double standards again Sarge?

Even after all the proof of it that he deleted?

At least he can't delete the contents of his posts now, even if he can still change his name. ;-)

Cheers.

A blank name again.
Awww, how sweet.

Did you expect any other result from Guy when he gets caught out on double standards again Sarge?

Even after all the proof of it that he deleted?

At least he can't delete the contents of his posts now, even if he can still change his name. ;-)

The problem is a blank name may say how much he values himself. Might be a clue that he is willing to do something "rash" in support of those things he rails for. Certainly wiping ones self away is not a thing a normal person does.

---

A blank name again.
Awww, how sweet.

Did you expect any other result from Guy when he gets caught out on double standards again Sarge?

Even after all the proof of it that he deleted?

At least he can't delete the contents of his posts now, even if he can still change his name. ;-)

The problem is a blank name may say how much he values himself. Might be a clue that he is willing to do something "rash" in support of those things he rails for. Certainly wiping ones self away is not a thing a normal person does.

When has Guy not done anything "rash" when he's been caught out?

Cheers.

A blank name again.
Awww, how sweet.

Did you expect any other result from Guy when he gets caught out on double standards again Sarge?

Even after all the proof of it that he deleted?

At least he can't delete the contents of his posts now, even if he can still change his name. ;-)

The problem is a blank name may say how much he values himself. Might be a clue that he is willing to do something "rash" in support of those things he rails for. Certainly wiping ones self away is not a thing a normal person does.

When has Guy not done anything "rash" when he's been caught out?

Cheers.

Well, https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

Sovereigns believe that they — not judges, juries, law enforcement or elected officials — get to decide which laws to obey and which to ignore, and they don't think they should have to pay taxes. Sovereigns are clogging up the courts with indecipherable filings and when cornered, many of them lash out in rage, frustration and, in the most extreme cases, acts of deadly violence, usually directed against government officials.

---

A blank name again.
Awww, how sweet.

Did you expect any other result from Guy when he gets caught out on double standards again Sarge?

Even after all the proof of it that he deleted?

At least he can't delete the contents of his posts now, even if he can still change his name. ;-)

The problem is a blank name may say how much he values himself. Might be a clue that he is willing to do something "rash" in support of those things he rails for. Certainly wiping ones self away is not a thing a normal person does.

When has Guy not done anything "rash" when he's been caught out?

Cheers.

Well, https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

Sovereigns believe that they — not judges, juries, law enforcement or elected officials — get to decide which laws to obey and which to ignore, and they don't think they should have to pay taxes. Sovereigns are clogging up the courts with indecipherable filings and when cornered, many of them lash out in rage, frustration and, in the most extreme cases, acts of deadly violence, usually directed against government officials.

Yeah we have a few of those idiots over here Gary, but thankfully our courts do deal harshly with them and their BS.

Cheers.

“Robust innovation is essential for economic growth and progress,” said co-author Stephen Ezell, ITIF’s vice president for global innovation.
http://www.thenextsiliconvalley.com/2016/01/21/4688-the-case-for-innovation-altruism-europe-leads-in-global-impact-on-innovation/
ITIF reported that on a per-capita basis Finland, Sweden, and the United Kingdom were the three countries that did the most to support global innovation and the least to detract from it. Singapore and the Netherlands take the number 4 and 5 positions. Interestingly, the USA ranks number 10, Germany 12, Japan 14, Israel 23, Brazil 41, Russia 42, China 44 and India is way down at 54. . Meanwhile, Greece was the 14th-worst per capita, in its net impact on global innovation and Ukraine was fifth-worst.

Schumpeterian economies seems to be more innovating then Adam Smithian economies.

Founded in 2006, ITIF is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, nonpartisan research and educational institute—a think tank—focusing on a host of critical issues at the intersection of technological innovation and public policy.

https://itif.org/about

Flag wavers for the PIPA/SOPA campaign
https://itif.org/publications/2011/12/05/pipasopa-responding-critics-and-finding-path-forward

"ITIF is led by its president and founder, Robert D. Atkinson..."

And who is this guy? Best I could come up with is 3 economics books on Amazon read by... no-one.

But I hit the jackpot on YouTube...

He's in bed with (and on the panel of) this lovely fellow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zbv_34guk

No idea if Finland and Sweden should actually be worried... I spent less than ten minutes doing the research, sorry. Probably not, likely just a list of countries that are PIPA/SOPA campaign darlings.

But I'd keep my eyes peeled if I were you. A pat on the back from the Koch Brothers Crew could be a red flag.

PS Anyone ever notice that "Think Tank" is slowly becoming a derogatory term? Oh wait! I asked the same question just yesterday;)

Founded in 2006, ITIF is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, nonpartisan research and educational institute—a think tank—focusing on a host of critical issues at the intersection of technological innovation and public policy.
https://itif.org/about
Flag wavers for the PIPA/SOPA campaign
https://itif.org/publications/2011/12/05/pipasopa-responding-critics-and-finding-path-forward
"ITIF is led by its president and founder, Robert D. Atkinson..."
And who is this guy? Best I could come up with is 3 economics books on Amazon read by... no-one.
But I hit the jackpot on YouTube...
He's in bed with (and on the panel of) this lovely fellow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zbv_34guk
No idea if Finland and Sweden should actually be worried... I spent less than ten minutes doing the research, sorry. Probably not, likely just a list of countries that are PIPA/SOPA campaign darlings.
But I'd keep my eyes peeled if I were you. A pat on the back from the Koch Brothers Crew could be a red flag.
PS Anyone ever notice that "Think Tank" is slowly becoming a derogatory term? Oh wait! I asked the same question just yesterday;)

Actually I dont't know what your aiming at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA
That Internet should be open to all is obvious.
But using Internet as a tool to steal innovating products is wrong.
Without regulations there will be no more innovations!

That Internet should be open to all is obvious.
But using Internet as a tool to steal innovating products is wrong.
Without regulations there will be no more innovations!

Well, there would still be innovations, just nothing that would be commercially exploitable. Kind of like sending culture back to the stone age where how to start a fire would be a jealously guarded secret handed down through the family.

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That Internet should be open to all is obvious.
But using Internet as a tool to steal innovating products is wrong.
Without regulations there will be no more innovations!

Well, there would still be innovations, just nothing that would be commercially exploitable. Kind of like sending culture back to the stone age where how to start a fire would be a jealously guarded secret handed down through the family.

Starting a fire is knowledge but it require tools to make it.
Driving a car is also knowledge but do you take an others car to use it by yourself?

Hi MajorKong...

No fail.

The (Don't confuse me with the facts) Left.

Fail, not a sentence, Subject, verb, object.

Believes that $60,000+ per year.

Fail, not a sentence, Subject, verb, object.

For a family of 4, is poverty!!!!

Fail, not a sentence, Subject, verb, object.

Then, when posting their Fantasy Beliefs.

Fail, not a sentence, Subject, verb, object.

The Left congratulates themselves for their Intelligence and Understanding.

No fail.

http://nlp-addiction.com/eliza/

> Hello. My name is Elisa. How may I help you?
* Hi MajorKong...
> How are you today.. What would you like to discuss?
* The (Don't confuse me with the facts) Left.
> Come, Come elucidate your thoughts.
* Believes that $60,000+ per year.
> I'm not sure I understand you fully.
* For a family of 4, is poverty!!!!
> Can you elaborate on that?
* Then, when posting their Fantasy Beliefs.
> Have you asked such questions before?
* The Left congratulates themselves for their Intelligence and Understanding.
> Say, do you have any psychological problems?

---

Hi MajorKong...

The (Don't confuse me with the facts) Left. Believes that $60,000+ per year. For a family of 4, is poverty!!!!

Then, when posting their Fantasy Beliefs. The Left congratulates themselves for their Intelligence and Understanding.

Where did this $60k a year come from? People here are spouting it as if it were fact? The closest I could find was $35k a year for a small minority of people. I'd say that is on on the poverty line, especially in the US where there are so little public services that everything is included in that figure.

Do ‘welfare’ recipients get $35,000 in benefits a year?

"It’s correct that a single parent can receive $35,000 in benefits, if he or she lives in one of the 10 states listed in the Cato report, or Washington, D.C. But the median welfare package, which would have been the relevant number to use, is about $28,800 — lower than Grothman’s figure.

The single parent in the Wisconsin legislative analysis received even more than Grothman’s claim. The report’s analysts acknowledged that the specific situation they studied would apply to a small portion of Wisconsin residents — fewer than 260 out of the state’s total population of 5.7 million (that is, less than 1/200th of 1 percent of the state’s population). Even if student aid was subtracted from the figure, it would still be difficult to figure out how many single parents fit his narrow focus.

Grothman’s statement in the interview lacks context, especially given the numerous caveats involved. His portrayal of a single parent “easily” receiving $35,000 is not accurate in a national context, since that would apply to only one in five cases, based on the Cato report."

Here is a breakdown of the federal budget:

FY15 Federal Budget Spending Estimates for Fiscal Years 2014 - 2019



Now in my opinion, government's job is to provide infrastructure, healthcare, pensions (which people pay into anyway, so that's actually their own money they are getting back), education and a social safety net such as welfare. People here might not agree with that, but considering that most people who go on welfare only spend a short time on it, its does seem to be doing its job. You might need it one day, be glad its there.

Does the military spending need to be so high? Again, that's your personal thing, but I don't think there is much argument for saying that its poor people that have bought down the economy. Especially as everyone knows that it was the banks and their fraudulent practices. I really don't understand why everyone is so quick to point at poor people. Does it make you feel better for some reason?

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Reality Internet Personality