Another example of USA Gun Laws (or lack of...)?

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moomin
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Message 1929092 - Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 21:05:06 UTC - in response to Message 1929084.  

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.

Hmm.
Note that the text says "he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual". Singularis.
In this case it was 5 kids that according to the US laws (adopted from the English common law btw) that could be guilty of murder of the kid that the police officer killed.
For all I know common law is that only one person can be convicted of murder of one person.
In this case it looks like that the convicted person was picked randomly.
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Message 1929093 - Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 21:05:19 UTC - in response to Message 1929083.  

But the perpetrator was the police officer...

Yes. Same as if the shop owner shoots a robber dead. Or misses and hits a bystander. If you didn't start the crime there wouldn't be a dead person.
OK.
But what charges did his other three friends get?
In that logic they should be guilty of murder as well.

Good question. Quick search didn't answer the question.

Anyone else have better luck?

The answer is in the BBC article
Smith decided to take that risk, turning down a 25-year plea deal, and was found guilty by a jury. The other three surviving suspects have pleaded guilty and are awaiting sentencing. Randall Houston, the district attorney who prosecuted Smith, says he felt the charges and the punishment were appropriate.

They obviously took a plea agreement to lesser charges.
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Message 1929271 - Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 21:18:37 UTC

Trump's "Making America Great again" campaign :-)

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Message 1929287 - Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 22:14:27 UTC

The Guardian -
US sheriff once said it was 'financially better' to kill than badly injure suspects

The sheriff of a county profiled by the Guardian after it was found to have the highest rate of killings by police in the US once said it is “better financially” for local authorities if officers kill suspects rather than badly injure them.

Sheriff Donny Youngblood of Kern county, California, who is currently running for re-election, made the remarks while addressing rank-and-file officers during his first campaign in 2006. Video of the meeting was recently found by an officers’ union.

“You know what happens when a guy makes a bad shooting on somebody and kills them? Three million bucks and the family goes away after a long back and forth,” Youngblood said.

He went on to say: “Which way do you think is better financially – to cripple them or kill them – for the county?” An unidentified man offscreen said “kill them”, to which Youngblood replied: “Absolutely. Because if they’re crippled we get to take care of them for life. And that cost goes way up.”

The sheriff’s office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Kern county was the subject of a Guardian series after 13 people were killed
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Message 1929290 - Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 22:25:13 UTC - in response to Message 1929287.  

Well what more are you expecting from Yanks with guns? They don't care as long as the "kill" gets counted.
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Message 1929302 - Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 23:01:14 UTC

Moomin's question about murder but not, brings up a interesting thing. Joe joins a crime gang. Someone in that gang does a crime for prestige. Presumably some of that prestige rubs off on Joe. Now is Joe guilty of that crime? With the way accomplice laws work he should be. A nice powerful tool to clean up crime syndicates. Since gangs like MS-13 love to tattoo themselves, you just need to prove the crime was by any gang member and you can put them all away because they have marked themselves. Legislatures are you listening?
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Message 1929310 - Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 23:12:35 UTC - in response to Message 1929304.  

Well what more are you expecting from Yanks with guns? They don't care as long as the "kill" gets counted.

It's about our Civil Liability Laws.
The fiduciary duty to the tax payer in this case.
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Message 1929322 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 0:34:02 UTC - in response to Message 1929312.  

Well what more are you expecting from Yanks with guns? They don't care as long as the "kill" gets counted.

It's about our Civil Liability Laws.
The fiduciary duty to the tax payer in this case.

As also with private corporations. Yep.

And still people don't get the fiduciary duty is the most obscene thing man has ever invented.
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Message 1929402 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 13:07:19 UTC

WHAT sort of schooling does America have?

Guns...

And now added with:


... Teachers in Pennsylvania get 16in bats...


For REAL!?...

What sort of an education is that?... What does that teach?...


Only in Amerika!

And all in our only one world,
Martin
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Message 1929413 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 13:59:01 UTC - in response to Message 1929405.  

Add Little Britain :)


Hey! We abandoned caning in schools many years ago.

Baseball bats are more the sort of nuklear option that are only shown as a laugh on cartoons or as where not to go in dystopian films... :-(


What next?...

Where's the good sense?...

Only in the Kafkaesque Amerika?
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Message 1929430 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 16:47:30 UTC - in response to Message 1929413.  

Add Little Britain :)


Hey! We abandoned caning in schools many years ago.

Baseball bats are more the sort of nuklear option that are only shown as a laugh on cartoons or as where not to go in dystopian films... :-(


What next?...

Where's the good sense?...

Only in the Kafkaesque Amerika?
Martin


What is wrong with baseball bats at school?


They are athletic equipment.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/80091/tahoma-high-school-baseball

Now then, if one was discussing a variation on a cricket bat, you might have a point... maybe...


https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1929440 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 17:49:06 UTC - in response to Message 1929402.  

Oh dear. Trying using bats against shooters...
Though the bats are largely symbolic, Superintendent William Hall said, they are there as a "last resort".
Teachers received the bats after a training day on how to respond to shooters. They will be locked up in classrooms.
"last resort"? Well most likely the last thing you ever do.
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Message 1929452 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 19:59:02 UTC - in response to Message 1929449.  
Last modified: 11 Apr 2018, 19:59:57 UTC

Anything is preferable to crouching in terror while awaiting to be killed.
For all I know is that school shooting victims are always crouching in terror while awaiting not to be killed.
That some teacher or perhaps even a student would stand up as an hero with a bat or a gun to end the shooting...
Give me a break.
From what I have seen from the Florida shootings for example the police always says "Stay down, Take cover, Don't engage".
That's a very good advice!
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Message 1929464 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 21:30:46 UTC

Bank of America to stop lending to some gun manufacturers in wake of Parkland massacre

Bank of America will stop lending to manufacturers of “military-style firearms” that are sold for civilian use, a bank official revealed this week.

Anne Finucane, a vice chairman at Bank of America, announced the plans Tuesday in an interview with Bloomberg Television, saying the bank had “intense conversations over the last few months” with its gun-manufacturer clients to let them know Bank of America would no longer finance their operations.

“We have just a handful of manufacturers. They know what our intentions are,” Finucane told Bloomberg. “It’s our intention not to finance these military-style firearms for civilian use.”

Finucane did not specify a timeline for when Bank of America would implement its decision — beyond noting it would be on a “go-forward basis” — nor did she state how it would affect any current lending agreements the bank might have with such gun manufacturers.
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Message 1929477 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 22:44:30 UTC - in response to Message 1929469.  

It is your individual decision.

You mean something like this.
Four Swedish police officers took a break from their New York vacation to answer the call of duty Wednesday, breaking up an out-of-control fight between two homeless men on a Manhattan subway train.
https://nypost.com/2015/04/22/swedish-cops-on-vacation-break-up-subway-fight/
Here it's called "Civil Kurage", Moral courage, the courage to take action for moral reasons despite the risk of adverse consequences.
That action is very rare and for school kids and teachers it's even more rare for obvious reasons.
Actually "moral courage" has been discussed here and some propone that it should be an criminal offense not to act seeing an criminal act and not engaging.
Well when it comes to voilence and weapons even our police says that you shouldn't engage!
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Message 1929484 - Posted: 11 Apr 2018, 23:24:47 UTC - in response to Message 1929480.  
Last modified: 11 Apr 2018, 23:28:03 UTC

...engage the murderer who will kill you if you don't.
Yes.
Meaning that someone shooting right at you or coming at you or your family with a knife or other lethal weapon you would naturally engage.
It's called self-defense.
But other than that you will see very few engage.
I have both been to and seen violent situations many times where people suddenly disappears when it happens!
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Message 1929553 - Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 10:37:43 UTC

In states such as Texas, an undocumented migrant is not allowed to get a driver’s license. But anyone — even a member of the MS-13 gang without papers — can potentially walk into a gun show and buy a semiautomatic rifle. Organized crime groups are taking advantage of this every day.


NYT - The Other Border Problem: American Guns Going to Mexico
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Message 1929573 - Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 13:36:18 UTC - in response to Message 1929553.  

In states such as Texas, an undocumented migrant is not allowed to get a driver’s license. But anyone — even a member of the MS-13 gang without papers — can potentially walk into a gun show and buy a semiautomatic rifle. Organized crime groups are taking advantage of this every day.


NYT - The Other Border Problem: American Guns Going to Mexico

Interesting, must be a Texas only loophole.

http://res.cloudinary.com/simpleview/image/upload/v1505838454/clients/lasvegas/LVCC_and_CC_2017_BUM_46366050-3e74-47dd-b0d3-8e4b74245826.pdf
Page 42 wrote:
Firearms (handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc.) may be legally bought and sold at gun shows in Clark County. In order to complete the sale, the Lessee must make arrangements to have a local licensed firearms dealer on property to handle transfers and conduct background checks. All firearm sales will go through this dealer.
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Message 1929575 - Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 14:03:09 UTC

Guns and gun laws in Sweden:)
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/halland/hade-7-pistoler-pa-aldreboendet-doms-till-villkorlig-dom-och-boter
He started approaching 90 years. Relatives decided to empty his property in Halmstad. There were 40 guns and rifles and weapon parts, partially hidden in the walls.
The man had also brought seven pistols to the retirement home in Halmstad. He picked them up voluntarily when the police came to visit.
"It was probably his favorite weapons that he had taken to the accommodation," says Tell.
During last Friday, a prosecutor decided to give the man a mild penalty in terms of the classification: conditional sentence and SEK 4,000, about USD 480, in fines for violation of the law of arms.
- Had he been younger, it could have been rendered in a prison sentence of two years, when the number of weapons definitely makes it a serious weapon crime. However, due to the age of the man and some other technical circumstances, the prosecutor considered that it was reasonable to give a conditional verdict for crimes against the law in this case, says Thomas Tell who investigated the case.


One of the guns found at the man in Halmstad. The gun is the Walther PP model, the same brand as the police previously used as a service weapon. .
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Message 1929600 - Posted: 12 Apr 2018, 16:29:05 UTC - in response to Message 1929573.  

In states such as Texas, an undocumented migrant is not allowed to get a driver’s license. But anyone — even a member of the MS-13 gang without papers — can potentially walk into a gun show and buy a semiautomatic rifle. Organized crime groups are taking advantage of this every day.


NYT - The Other Border Problem: American Guns Going to Mexico

Interesting, must be a Texas only loophole.

http://res.cloudinary.com/simpleview/image/upload/v1505838454/clients/lasvegas/LVCC_and_CC_2017_BUM_46366050-3e74-47dd-b0d3-8e4b74245826.pdf
Page 42 wrote:
Firearms (handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc.) may be legally bought and sold at gun shows in Clark County. In order to complete the sale, the Lessee must make arrangements to have a local licensed firearms dealer on property to handle transfers and conduct background checks. All firearm sales will go through this dealer.


Bat guano. It is not just Texas. Most states do not require background checks on private sales of firearms (including gun shows). Sure, some do, but most of those require it only on handguns.

As to Nevada, what you linked is rules of Las Vegas Convention Center, not Nevada law. Yes, Nevada voters passed a law to require the checks, but it is not enforceable due to a spat between the FBI and Nevada State authorities.

In December, the FBI said in a letter to state officials that Nevada could better assess applicants’ fitness themselves because records such as arrest warrants and drivers’ records are kept by the state. State legislation can’t dictate how federal resources are applied, according to the letter.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-02/nevada-s-background-check-for-gun-buyers-stalls-despite-voter-ok

But, even if you DO manage to close the 'gun-show' loophole nationwide, it will not stop the guns going south. Ioan Grillo's op-ed in the NYT made it very clear why it won't... in the 1st paragraph.

He never bothered paying American citizen straw buyers to purchase the weapons for him, he said.


A person buys one or more firearms from a licensed gun dealer. Background checks done. All is well.....
THEN, that person sells said firearm(s) to someone else. Legal so far....
The someone else then runs them to Mexico... <--- the illegal part.

Sorry, but there is no quick, easy, and inexpensive 'fix' to solve this problem. Stuff gets smuggled into the USA with enough frequency to supply the 'needs' of various groups (drugs for the drug addicts, etc., etc.). If stuff can be smuggled in, stuff can be smuggled out... And don't even think about any sort of prohibition. That didn't work on booze (also fueling a large expansion of organized crime), it hasn't worked on various drugs (again, fueling a large expansion of organized crime)... And so on, and so forth.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message boards : Politics : Another example of USA Gun Laws (or lack of...)?


 
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