Personally I will be very interested to read the RAIB report.

They are usually very thorough and look at not only the direct cause of the accident but any and all factors that could have contributed to it.

Also they will often find problems that while not directly related to the accident need addressing.

Hopefully if the "dead man switch" is a problem it will be highlighted.

Then that was one dumb driver! Any time I left the cab at a station, the control key was centred.

At the museum, anytime we walk away from the controls we remove the key and put it in a pocket. If we turn over control to someone else, we remove the key and hand it over. If we have a problem and have to call out an expert to fix it, we hand HIM the key.

With the exception of C69 which had braking & motive power all in one handle, they were mainly like this

That looks roughly like the cab of our CTA 4000-series L cars, which were the last ones to have air brakes. Starting with the 6000s, the brakes have been electric and on the same control handle as the power.

Most of our streetcars, such as 3142, don't even have a deadman -- you can release the handle at full power and it will stay there. One notable exception is Illinois Terminal 415, which is a little more of an interurban than a streetcar. It's a safety car, meaning that even when you turn the controller back to off, you still have to hold it down or the brakes will go into emergency. IIRC*, the same is true of the electric brake L cars. Between those extremes, most of our interurbans and the 4000s and older L cars will shut off propulsion if you let go in a power setting, but won't apply the brakes.

*I'm less sure about these because I've only run them a few times (4000s only once for only part of a trip) and haven't had formal training.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

The attitude of "as safe as possible" must include tram crews reporting for duty in a fir state to perform their duty - a driver who reports for duty in an unfit state be it through drink, drugs or lack of sleep should not take control of a tram - indeed he is required NOT to take control under various bits of law (ROGS, HSE etc.), the company operating rules and safety management system. There are prescribed periods of rest within a shift, the patterns of these have been worked out to ensure that a "normally aware" driver at the start of the shift will not be in a state when he might fall asleep before the end of the final trip.
As to making the tram "as safe as possible" - I dare say there will be recommendations from the RAIB and other investigations that will point to improvements to the trams that will improve their safety. However, let us not forget that they complied with the requirements at their time of construction and introduction into service. It is probable that the new trams being introduced shortly will have an improved vigilance system, not due to this accident, but because the rules have changed and those rules apply to new trams, and are not, as currently cast, retrospective.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

oops
http://ktla.com/2017/04/25/fiery-crash-involving-big-rigs-prompts-shutdown-of-southbound-5-freeway-traffic-jammed/

1 Dead, 10 Injured After Fiery Crash on 5 Freeway Near Griffith Park

Investigators believe a box truck heading north on the freeway lost control and went over the center divider, triggering the chain-reaction collision on the southbound side, CHP spokesman Jose Nunez said.

The crash ignited a large explosion, sending plumes of thick, black smoke into the air that were visible for miles.

When first responders arrived, they found at least eight vehicles -- three commercial trucks, three passenger cars, one passenger van and a truck -- involved in the collision, Los Angeles Fire Department spokesman Erik Scott said. Several vehicles were engulfed in flames when firefighters arrived.

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I think that Sirius was very much in favour of the Westinghouse brake system.

Incorrect.

At the time of my employment on the Underground, all rolling stock had two braking systems.

The majority of the stock had Electric Pneumatic (EP) & Westinghouse. The rest had Reostatic Braking & Westinghouse.

As with everything in life, one works with what is available.

This thread is degenerating into reporting peoples local car crashes. It is supposed to be about overall safety matters, and how general transportation safety can be improved across the board. We in the UK await the official Croydon tram crash report, and the recommendations contained therein.

Online rubber necking should have it's own thread.

I didn't post it at the beginning of this particular thread, but the previous one started with

This thread is for commentary on transportation safety incidents and is intended for people who don't want to go to Politics (but that means you have to keep politics out of this thread).

That should be presumed to have carried over.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

By reporting incidents, it will show one of two things: -

Lack of thinking.
Lack of safety measures.

Whichever one is proved, it makes other aware & that is a good thing as it may prevent them having an incident.

If you don't like what is being posted, avoid reading it.

By reporting incidents, it will show one of two things: -

Lack of thinking.
Lack of safety measures.

Whichever one is proved, it makes other aware & that is a good thing as it may prevent them having an incident.

If you don't like what is being posted, avoid reading it.

+1

Cheers.

By reporting incidents, it will show one of two things: -

Lack of thinking.
Lack of safety measures.

Whichever one is proved, it makes other aware & that is a good thing as it may prevent them having an incident.

If you don't like what is being posted, avoid reading it.

+1

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If you start a thread Chris then you can dictate terms, but don't try to dictate terms in someone else's thread, and you've been trying to do far too much of that lately in other's threads of late. :-(

If you don't like what you see then just do the right thing and totally ignore those threads all together. ;-)

Cheers.

If you start a thread Chris then you can dictate terms, but don't try to dictate terms in someone else's thread, and you've been trying to do far too much of that lately in other's threads of late. :-(

If you don't like what you see then just do the right thing and totally ignore those threads all together. ;-)

Cheers.

+1

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If you start a thread Chris then you can dictate terms, but don't try to dictate terms in someone else's thread, and you've been trying to do far too much of that lately in other's threads of late. :-(

If you don't like what you see then just do the right thing and totally ignore those threads all together. ;-)

Cheers.

Well what can you expect from someone who equates driving a white van to driving an articulated 44 tonner :-)

Anyone can start a new thread, and they are then termed the original poster or the OP. Once the first few posts are made then that thread moves into public ownership, and anyone can post what they want..

Not sure that is how it goes, if someone starts a thread on cooking you then say anyone can post what they like, that is new to me.

Would not make much sense to discuss cooking in the picture thread or transport in the cooking thread now would it.

I have always understood that the OP can asked for posts to be moved/hidden if they do not follow set rules that the OP dictates.

Like the word thread and TLPTPW thread.

Moral? Don't fly on Russian Aircraft and wear your safety belt.

Turbulence

Why do you single out Russian Aircraft?
NYT - 21 Injured on Air Canada Flight After Sudden Turbulence
FAA - Turbulence: Staying Safe

Why is it important to follow these safety regulations? Consider this:

In nonfatal accidents, in-flight turbulence is the leading cause of injuries to airline passengers and flight attendants.
Each year, approximately 58 people in the United States are injured by turbulence while not wearing their seat belts.
From 1980 through 2008, U.S. air carriers had 234 turbulence accidents*, resulting in 298 serious injuries and three fatalities.
Of the 298 serious injuries, 184 involved flight attendants and 114 involved passengers.
At least two of the three fatalities involved passengers who were not wearing their seat belts while the seat belt sign was illuminated.
Generally, two-thirds of turbulence-related accidents occur at or above 30,000 feet.

And from Traveler

Clear air turbulence, however, is a different story.

Clear air turbulence is the most dangerous kind, as it occurs in cloudless skies with perfect visibility—so oncoming turbulence cannot be picked up by weather radar. This leaves little to no time for the flight crew to warn passengers to return to their seats and buckle up. Unsurprisingly, most turbulence-related injuries are due to clear air turbulence.

Clear air turbulence is on the rise.

According to scientists, the amount of extreme clear air turbulence affecting flights could more than double by the middle of the century due to global warming. So brace yourself for more bumpy flights

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The worst flight I've had was in a BA 737 from Schiphol to Birmingham - a few minutes after take-off, just as the coffee service was starting the plane dropped violently, I got a stewardess on my lap, the gent on the other side of the aisle got the coffee pot. We eventually arrived in Birmingham, after nearly two hours in the air normally a 45-60 minute flight). As I was disembarking I saw an Air France flight from Paris being greeted by ambulances. One of my colleagues was on that flight, he said they'd been in level flight when the plane just dropped and several people were tossed around like rag dolls.
So it's not just Aeroflot that suffer this sort of thing, but the BIG lesson is to keep your seat belt done up when not "making that essential trip" as Clear Air Turbulence can happen with little or no warning, and can be very violent.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

We all know that turbulence can affect any aircraft at many altitudes, but Russian airlines don't exactly have a good record.

Russian aircraft

Could it be, as Russia is the Worlds largest country, twice the size of the US, and a population density 25% of the US that there are more long distant flights, and therefore more chance of turbulence/flight.

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but the BIG lesson is to keep your seat belt done up when not "making that essential trip" as Clear Air Turbulence can happen with little or no warning, and can be very violent.

+1000

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We all know that turbulence can affect any aircraft at many altitudes, but Russian airlines don't exactly have a good record.

Russian aircraft

But unless you are flying to Russia's European big cities and want to travel to or inside Russia you are almost restricted to Russian airlines.
Even to Sochi the location winter Olympics a few years ago and of yesterdays F1 race. In fact such is the state of flights there to Europe the F1 management chartered flights for the personnel and reporters, the only race it happens at.

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We all know that turbulence can affect any aircraft at many altitudes, but Russian airlines don't exactly have a good record.
Russian aircraft

Nonsense!!!!

Get a grip Chris!!!

We all know that turbulence can affect any aircraft at many altitudes, but Russian airlines don't exactly have a good record.
Russian aircraft

Nonsense!!!!

Get a grip Chris!!!

Russia has mountains. Mountains = clear air turbulence with NO WARNING. Same thing happens in the USA over the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada. https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Mountain_Waves

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