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celttooth Send message Joined: 21 Nov 99 Posts: 26503 Credit: 28,583,098 RAC: 0 |
Thank you good Sir, and good luck in your quest! |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Project premises; "the new analog language I am working on" ? Why are you doing that? There are already "universal" languages that you can use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ido_(language) I have to ask. What is your second language? To understand linguistics you have to know some other living languages. Languages are constantly changing over time. So please dont refer to the bible or greek philosophers! |
tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
Once, when working at Mondadori scientific editions, I received the magazine of the Academia Sinica, which included Chinese ideograms, Russian Cyrillic texts, and English texts. I could read the English textss and no other. But mathematical formulas were identical in all cases, and used the Latin alphabet. So, if you look for a universal language, it is that of mathematics. Tullio |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
So, if you look for a universal language, it is that of mathematics. That's very true. At least Max Tegmark think so:) http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/mathematical.html I would like to include music as well. The motto of KTH, both Max and I studied there, is "Science and Art" But mathematical formulas were identical in all cases, and used the Latin alphabet Dont forget the greek alphabet. Δ δ, Μ μ, Ππ for instance:) |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
Project I promise not to try to refer you to anything, ever. I positively see where that would be a completely futile effort. And I see that a satisfactory answer to any of your questions should be a prudent, I simply don't know. Thank you for your acute observations. I am, however, bothered by one thing. You have plenty of friends which obvously do not mind the least in being your friend, so why do you look for someone else to annoy? There is one other thing; If you were conversing with a congenitally blind person, and that person kept asking to be told the color of things, would his questions have any relevance at all in regard to his ability to comprehend an answer? I ask, because I really hope with all my soul, that when you see any posts of mine, you consider me to be that poor and unfortunate fellow and simply ignore the post. I am sure your friends would simply enjoy the extra attention you so aptly bestow upon them. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
Music is mathematics for the soul. Mathematics is music fro the soul. Mathematics and music commute, that is they form an Abelian algebra. When I was 15 I could play the English Suites by Bach on the piano. Then my parents told me they could no longer pay the teacher and I had to stop. That is my only regret, together with the death of my thesis adviser in a stupid auto accident. We could have done some research together. Tullio |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
Music is mathematics for the soul. Mathematics is music fro the soul. Truly, I simply don't know. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
I know 4 languages, some more some less. But they all belong to the Western world. I cannot understand Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanes, Korean, etc.Some friends of mine insist on Esperanto as a universal language, but I never studied it. The European Commission should have used a simplified form of Latin as a common language, like the Israeli did with Hebrew. In Israel children in families coming from all over the world are taught Hebrew and English. When my firm sold computers to Israel they had to modify the keyboards so that clicking on capital letters would give Hebrew characters. English has no diacritical marks, so does Latin. Tullio |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
You say you know language. If that is true, then perhaps you can explain something to me. Language is a biological function, and all biological functions have a common goal, can you honestly say that the way mankind conceives of language today is expressing that common goal? And, if one does not know the factual biological connection, nor how language is derived from their own biology, that they in fact do not know language, they are at best proto-linguistic? And further, that being proto-linguistic, they do not actually know what they are saying? In the face of this, I say, that the ability to manufacture strings of words in a socially acceptable manner does not prove linguistic ability, nor does it indicate good or bad behavior. Also, that being illiterate in one language is sufficient for me. In other words, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
Mike Send message Joined: 17 Feb 01 Posts: 34255 Credit: 79,922,639 RAC: 80 |
Sorry but language is no biological function. It has to be learned how to express meanings for example. So it depends on the character who is using the language as well as the way of thinking. I speak several languages but in each language a friend can identify me by the way i mention things. So i would say the same in chinese as i would in english or hungarian. Most important is experience of conversations. So i feel much more comfortable speaking my own language and english than hungarian or chinese because of lack of practice. With each crime and every kindness we birth our future. |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
Really? You ever hear of the concept of a closed system? For example, no matter what you do in arithmetic with numbers, the product is always a number? Or what you say in words, the product is always words? Or what you do with wood, the product is always wooden? How is it that language is not a biological product, unless you imagine yourself as some kind of mystical sprite that happen to land on a flower? https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
There are thousands of languages in the world in risk of disappearing, mostly spoken by elder people also in risk of disappearing. I am not a linguist, simply a user. But I have read some of the books by Noam Chomsky on the origin of language.Maybe you should read them too. Prof.Luca Cavalli Sforza of Stanford University and University of Pavia makes a strong connection of language to DNA, so different DNA populations have different languages. This is strongly disputed by linguists, but I leave this subject to peoplo better prepared. I am a follower of Wittgenstein's idea, if you don't know a subject don't speak about it. Tullio |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
I have actually created a new analog language, rigorously proofed with Mathcad and Sketchpad. Perhaps you should try answering the question. I know that avoidance is an answer, but hey, I like to give at least a second try. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
celttooth Send message Joined: 21 Nov 99 Posts: 26503 Credit: 28,583,098 RAC: 0 |
We all speak the human language, it looks like lots of living things have their own language. Even I can understand the three main words in the universal language of life here on this planet. These things have been evolving on earth from the beginning of the world. I say hang in there, you'll get it all figured out soon enough! I don't offer classes, but given enough money, then I may be convinced to help on a fee for service arrangement. edit: What I lack in intellect, I make=up for with a stout heart! |
tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
I know a few computer languages and have used some of them. All those based on the second order predicate logic like Prolog have failed. Those which prevailed are C and C++, based on less rigorous logic and more empiric. On the other hand, Kurt Goedel has demonstrated the impossibility of an axiomatic logic system capable of including arithmetics. Tullio |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
I know a few computer languages and have used some of them. All those based on the second order predicate logic like Prolog have failed. Those which prevailed are C and C++, based on less rigorous logic and more empiric. On the other hand, Kurt Goedel has demonstrated the impossibility of an axiomatic logic system capable of including arithmetics. Perhaps Kurt was ignorant of a plain demonstrable fact of language. Logics, derived from the term logos, are simply indexing systems for analog content. To claim that an indexing system differ from indexing systems as an indexing system is a self referential fallacy. So, claiming that an indexing system which is a logic is not a logic, only means that Kurt could not, in Aristotle's words, think no better than a vegetable. I simply happen to agree with Aristotle, because the principles of a logic do not differ from the principles of logic. Secondly, as was pointed out long ago, and can be reached by the simplest reflection, all you can do is name abstractions, i.e. establish a one-to-one correspondence. This is a self evident fact, or axiom, the only one actually required for language. Aristotle, himself pointed out, all other so called axioms are derived from this, i.e. they are not actually axioms at all. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
Well, in language you might prefer, an old poem of mine. Have you met Mark? When he returns from sabbatical, I predict some very interesting discussions. I do not fight fascists because I think I can win. I fight them because they are fascists. Chris Hedges A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr. |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
Well, in language you might prefer, an old poem of mine. Well, I have to confess, the topic of this discussion may confuse many, so I will set the record straight. I am homophobic, if you allow the atrocity in the term. Biology determines what is rational and not rational. A woman is factually not only the most dangerous animal in all of creation, she is also the most beautiful. So, when I set high standards for conceptual ability, it is only out of a concern for self-preservation. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
celttooth Send message Joined: 21 Nov 99 Posts: 26503 Credit: 28,583,098 RAC: 0 |
A woman is factually not only the most dangerous animal in all of creation, she is also the most beautiful. Balderdash! |
Philosopher8659 Send message Joined: 21 Oct 15 Posts: 97 Credit: 2,696 RAC: 0 |
A woman is factually not only the most dangerous animal in all of creation, she is also the most beautiful. I only have my own experience to go by, after all, I have been married four times. I like marriage, a personal weakness of mine. A childhood dream, hand in hand exploring reality itself. Truly a magic vision. https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage https://archive.org/details/TheDifferenceBetweenManAndBeast https://archive.org/details/DelianQuest2015 |
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