The Most Mysterious Star in the Galaxy

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Message 1738746 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 9:51:58 UTC - in response to Message 1738548.  

This would be a good time to create a crowdfunding campaign for research to study the star KIC 8462852.

no you don't!

just need to program K2 mission to give a RED ALERT, when KIC 8462852 start dimming again...

so we have to see patterns in dimming 1st...
then, we have to watch the object in just as patterns begin...
and finally then - we can figure out what's it out there?!
;)

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Message 1738787 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 14:46:27 UTC

Unfortunately, the Kepler Space Telescope, in its new K2 configuration, can not view KIC 8462852. In using the Sun's gravity to compensate for the defective reaction wheels, it must remain pointed at areas of space much nearer the ecliptic plane.
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Message 1738788 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 15:01:58 UTC - in response to Message 1738787.  

Unfortunately, the Kepler Space Telescope, in its new K2 configuration, can not view KIC 8462852. In using the Sun's gravity to compensate for the defective reaction wheels, it must remain pointed at areas of space much nearer the ecliptic plane.



Will the James Webb be able to do that sort of viewing?
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1738826 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 16:57:09 UTC
Last modified: 1 Nov 2015, 16:59:41 UTC

Yes, the James Webb Space telescope could presumably observe the star KIC 8462852. We'll have something of a wait before that could occur, though. It's set to be launched in October 2018, three years from now. A good deal of additional time would pass before the space telescope actually began making observations.
It's very possible that one of the Earth-based telescopes looking for light variations from this star will be able to tell us something before then. When another dip in brightness is seen, the plan is to make a spectrum of whatever is obscuring the star. This, it's hoped, will tell us something of the nature of the obscuring objects.
It should be apparent if they are dust and fine debris, the favored natural explanation, or much larger objects, hinting at something more than natural.
It's been disclosed that high resolution spectrography has already been performed on this star. This may have occurred in the absence of any of the dimming bodies. In any case, no general excess of dust was discovered.
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Message 1738842 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 18:16:00 UTC

don't we have some telescope in Space, that can observe it constantly...or that region of the Space...one that doesn't evolve with Earth or that doesn't revolve around Earth...
:/

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Message 1738861 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 19:18:50 UTC - in response to Message 1738826.  

It should be apparent if they are dust and fine debris, the favored natural explanation, or much larger objects, hinting at something more than natural.
It's been disclosed that high resolution spectrography has already been performed on this star. This may have occurred in the absence of any of the dimming bodies. In any case, no general excess of dust was discovered.


It boggles my mind we know as much as we do already.
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Message 1738873 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015, 20:25:34 UTC - in response to Message 1738842.  

don't we have some telescope in Space, that can observe it constantly...or that region of the Space...one that doesn't evolve with Earth or that doesn't revolve around Earth...
:/


The Spitzer Space Telescope could probably serve this purpose. It's in a solar orbit, and has been used to discover at least one quite distant exo-planet.
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Message 1739377 - Posted: 3 Nov 2015, 15:21:06 UTC - in response to Message 1738746.  

This would be a good time to create a crowdfunding campaign for research to study the star KIC 8462852.

no you don't!

just need to program K2 mission to give a RED ALERT, when KIC 8462852 start dimming again...

so we have to see patterns in dimming 1st...
then, we have to watch the object in just as patterns begin...
and finally then - we can figure out what's it out there?!
;)


Cool.

We need another Kepler mission. Anyone know of any plans to send another one. This one worked out well even after it broke. : )
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Message 1739944 - Posted: 5 Nov 2015, 19:22:45 UTC

The star KIC 846 2852 is given an F3 type classification. This reflects a star with a main sequence lifetime of between 2 and 3 billion years. We know that intelligent life on Earth took about 4.5 billion years to come into existence. It seems less likely that this can have happened in half the time in another solar system.
A few possibilities suggest themselves:
1.) The higher level of ultraviolet radiation from an F type star could introduce a greater rate of mutations in living matter. This might spur a faster pace of evolution, provided it didn't consistently break down more complex life at its inception, and keep life on a very simple level.
2.)Any intelligent life in the 'Tabby's Star' system may have had its origin elsewhere. Migration and expansion are keynotes of life of all sort on our planet. At a sufficient level of technical development this may also hold on the interstellar scale.
3.) If the star-obscuring matter in orbit of KIC 846 2852 is an artificial structure, it could serve the dual purpose of shielding one or more inhabited planets from excess ultraviolet radiation, and collecting solar energy for use on those planets.
4.) Any intelligent life in this star system may reside on a planet of the companion red dwarf star. It is distant enough ~ 900 AU, that ultraviolet radiation from the F3 star would be much less of a problem.
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Message 1740095 - Posted: 6 Nov 2015, 7:54:38 UTC

OK, found out more data...apparently a dipping in the star light gets 700-750d apart...check here:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28191-citizen-scientists-catch-cloud-of-comets-orbiting-distant-star/
we missed an April 2015, so next one is due in May 2017! until then, all is just assumption... ;)

also, infra-red has ruled out any planetary collisions, which might have made to 1/4 dip of a star 50% larger than Sun:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/something-were-not-sure-what-is-radically-dimming-a-stars-light/

so far, no radio signal was detected with ATA from SETI.org:
http://www.seti.org/seti-institute/press-release/looking-deliberate-radio-signals-kic-8462852

given that habitable zone is 2,74AU for a F-type star:
http://terraforming.wikia.com/wiki/F_-_type_stars
& that an Earth-size object would have 1600d revolution in habitable zone around an F-type star:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2.7+astronomical+unit+to+orbital+period+with+1%2C5+solar+mass
so that, whatever it is - is small planet or a very hot planet/objects:

further on, assuming that Earth size planet has a 750d orbital period around a F-type star KIC 846 2852, we get distance:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=750day+orbital+period+with+1.5+solar+mass+and+earth+
or 1,8AU (just click on distance)! ;)

so either there's (a conclusion):
1. nothing living & some strange phenomenon - very interesting
2. there's an advanced civ, which inhabited & terraformed a planet like our Venus...so to get it cold, it has put some large semi-transparent shields of light (& radiation) in orbit around a planet... - not very likely, but interesting
;)

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Message 1740180 - Posted: 6 Nov 2015, 16:22:24 UTC

Even if we suppose a 700-750 day periodicity, for which evidence is lacking, it's doubtful that this is connected with a planet at the appropriate distance. Such an object would have to be of stellar, rather than planetary size, to obscure the star to the degree observed. An as-yet undiscovered planet in a larger orbit, and so, a more readily habitable position might exist.
One or more disintegrating comets is the favored explanation at the moment for the dimming of the star. Given the degree to which it's sometimes obscured, a multitude of comets seems more likely. Considering this, it seems puzzling that dust, which comets typically have in abundance, isn't generally distributed in this system, and quite conspicuous, rather than being confined to clumps. Since system-wide dust was looked for, but not found, the comet scenario seems questionable. Even Dr. Jason Wright, a major figure in this matter, has called it 'contrived'.
Since we know so little about the distribution of intelligent life in space, the basis of remarks that the comet scenario is far more likely than one involving a Dyson swarm is unclear. It might be better to put the odds at 50/50, until more is known.
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Message 1740186 - Posted: 6 Nov 2015, 17:01:43 UTC

Has anyone considered a proto-planetary disk or a debris disc from a distrupted (failed) star? If such a disc were spinning with the star (that is, its major plane aligned with the star's rotational axis rather than perpendicular to it) I think it would manage the effect that is being observed. However it would be very unstable and would eventually fall into the plane perpendicular to the stellar rotation axis (and so look similar to Saturn's rings)
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Message 1740255 - Posted: 6 Nov 2015, 21:56:26 UTC
Last modified: 6 Nov 2015, 21:57:15 UTC

Since 'Tabby's Star' gives every indication of being a mature star, a proto-planetary disk was thought to be very unlikely. Given the nebular hypothesis of how stars and planets form, it seems likely that a disrupted star, and its debris, would have an orbital plane in common with the F3 star from the start, rather than at right angles to it.

It's apparently not known if we are seeing the rotation plane of KIC 846 2852 edge on, or at what angle. If a debris disk from a disrupted star happened to be interposed in front of the star, it seems that the amount of dimming would be more constant than what is observed. Such a disruption would appear to be connected to the early history of the star, and there would have been plenty of time for the debris to spread and even out.
This debris should also probably contain a good deal of the heavier elements, essentially dust. They do not find that there is an unusual amount of widespread dust in this system,over that expected around an F type star.
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Message 1740406 - Posted: 7 Nov 2015, 15:38:18 UTC

& how much would Asteroid field, like Sun has between Mars & Jupiter orbit, obscure the light of the Star?!
:/

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Message 1740431 - Posted: 7 Nov 2015, 16:58:28 UTC - in response to Message 1740406.  

& how much would Asteroid field, like Sun has between Mars & Jupiter orbit, obscure the light of the Star?!
:/

Probably not much since the asteroid belt doesn't affect our view of the outer planets.
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Message 1740474 - Posted: 7 Nov 2015, 20:31:58 UTC
Last modified: 7 Nov 2015, 20:35:18 UTC

The largest dimming incident involved a reduction in the star's light by 22 percent. If solid objects, like asteroids are involved, they would have to cover 22 percent of the star' face.
It doesn't seem possible that even a very abundant asteroid belt could provide a total area anywhere near that. Even Venus, when it passes in front of the Sun doesn't cause anywhere near that much dimming, and it has a diameter larger than that of all known asteroids combined.
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Message 1740820 - Posted: 9 Nov 2015, 12:13:14 UTC - in response to Message 1740095.  
Last modified: 9 Nov 2015, 12:16:47 UTC

OK, found out more data...apparently a dipping in the star light gets 700-750d apart...check here:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28191-citizen-scientists-catch-cloud-of-comets-orbiting-distant-star/
we missed an April 2015, so next one is due in May 2017! until then, all is just assumption... ;)

also, infra-red has ruled out any planetary collisions, which might have made to 1/4 dip of a star 50% larger than Sun:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/something-were-not-sure-what-is-radically-dimming-a-stars-light/

so far, no radio signal was detected with ATA from SETI.org:
http://www.seti.org/seti-institute/press-release/looking-deliberate-radio-signals-kic-8462852

given that habitable zone is 2,74AU for a F-type star:
http://terraforming.wikia.com/wiki/F_-_type_stars
& that an Earth-size object would have 1600d revolution in habitable zone around an F-type star:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2.7+astronomical+unit+to+orbital+period+with+1%2C5+solar+mass
so that, whatever it is - is small planet or a very hot planet/objects:

further on, assuming that Earth size planet has a 750d orbital period around a F-type star KIC 846 2852, we get distance:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=750day+orbital+period+with+1.5+solar+mass+and+earth+
or 1,8AU (just click on distance)! ;)

so either there's (a conclusion):
1. nothing living & some strange phenomenon - very interesting
2. there's an advanced civ, which inhabited & terraformed a planet like our Venus...so to get it cold, it has put some large semi-transparent shields of light (& radiation) in orbit around a planet... - not very likely, but interesting
;)


made a small ERROR!

if it's a ring around a star, with a radius of a 1,8-3 AU from the star...then the period is 1500d per a full rotation of the one segment of the ring...& every 750d a ring blocks the star in it's normal rotation...
to imagine what I'm talking about, here is sthg:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Rotating_gimbal-xyz.gif/150px-Rotating_gimbal-xyz.gif

so, it might be possible...but, lets wait till May 2017!
unfortunatelly, we won't have a JWST launched... :/

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Message 1740914 - Posted: 9 Nov 2015, 19:23:51 UTC
Last modified: 9 Nov 2015, 19:35:02 UTC

Was reading about the improbability that the Kepler Space Telescope would just happen to observe an apparently very recent disruption of one or more comets in the 'Tabby's Star' system, by an intruding field star. Tended to think: Well, given the KST's observation of 150,000 stars, maybe finding just one, where this was the case wasn't so extraordinary, after all. This is, after all, the favored scientific explanation for the deep dimming of this star.
Looking further over the Boyajian, et al. paper (Where's the Flux?) I find that the authors have an interesting take on this problem. They calculate that each star observed must have 10,000 (10^4) encounters like this in its lifetime, in order for the KST to find one at KIC 846 2852, in the time frame of its observations.
That seems a very large figure. One might even say improbably large, even taking into account the long lifetimes of stars. 10,000 stars pass right through the planetary system of each star? !
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Message 1741419 - Posted: 11 Nov 2015, 21:49:09 UTC

There is some sense that the event that gave rise to the supposed debris in the Tabby's Star system could be recent. Because of this, its even been scientifically speculated that there may be no more irregular dimming of the star, the debris having quickly settled into a more or less uniform ring.
It looks as if the Kepler Space Telescope may have observed this system during a very brief time frame in which the dimming could have occurred.
Supporting this possibility is the fact that the Wide field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) satellite looked at Tabby's Star just a few years before the KST. It found none of the infrared associated with debris in that system. It seems that debris that can dim the star by up to 22 percent should have been sufficient to give an infrared signature.
The alternative seems to be that the event creating the debris occurred in the few years between the WISE and KST observations.
That would be a remarkable coincidence, especially so, given the astrophysical time scale, in which things happen over millions or billions of years. Is such a coincidence more believable than a Dyson swarm?
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Message 1741494 - Posted: 12 Nov 2015, 6:45:00 UTC - in response to Message 1741419.  

There is some sense that the event that gave rise to the supposed debris in the Tabby's Star system could be recent. Because of this, its even been scientifically speculated that there may be no more irregular dimming of the star, the debris having quickly settled into a more or less uniform ring.
It looks as if the Kepler Space Telescope may have observed this system during a very brief time frame in which the dimming could have occurred.
Supporting this possibility is the fact that the Wide field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) satellite looked at Tabby's Star just a few years before the KST. It found none of the infrared associated with debris in that system. It seems that debris that can dim the star by up to 22 percent should have been sufficient to give an infrared signature.
The alternative seems to be that the event creating the debris occurred in the few years between the WISE and KST observations.
That would be a remarkable coincidence, especially so, given the astrophysical time scale, in which things happen over millions or billions of years. Is such a coincidence more believable than a Dyson swarm?

observations from 2009, 2011 & 2013 got some 700-750d of dimming...so it's a frequent enough to expect if around May 2017!

but, how come none of the astronomers think of watching it in April 2015?! :/


& you are right...WISE didn't find anything in infrared...so either it's undetectable with WISE over 1480ly?! or there's nothing of technology to have wasted heat there?!
so many questions, so few answers....
;)

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