Yes its racist.

Just as saying that all black people play basketball and eat chicken is racist. Playing basketball and eating chicken are not inherently bad, but most people can see that those comments are racist.

If I saw that joke posted somewhere else on these message boards I would delete it as racist.

Please explain why YOU think it's racist ?

Certainly not all black people play Basketball, but if you look at the NBL team rosters, those that do play, are very good at it.

In Australia, indigenous players in the various sports codes are given much praise for their ability and held up as icons to younger indigenous players.

Under the "Racism Guidelines" posted by Мишель, this is racist. Do you agree ?

Edit: When you block a post due to "racism", do you work to any guidelines, or do you just go by "gut feeling" ?

T.A.

The word "all" attached to a statement of a racial stereotype is an obvious racist thing.

"All white people like to eat watermelon and fried chicken" is racist as it is a comment based on race that is made about a group of persons less than all humans and is false.

"All black people like to breath fresh air" is generally not going to be seen as racist, because it is universally true for all humans and thus can not be seen as derogatory. However, if the statement were made in the context of the ghetto having bad air, then that context modifies the statement into a racist one as the ghetto part of the context adds a derogatory intent.

So essentially any statement of the type: All [racial/cultural qualifier] like to [racial/cultural stereotype] will always be a racist remark.

The joke fits this pattern.
Racial qualifier: Asian
Racial stereotype: Smart

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Yes its racist.

Just as saying that all black people play basketball and eat chicken is racist. Playing basketball and eating chicken are not inherently bad, but most people can see that those comments are racist.

If I saw that joke posted somewhere else on these message boards I would delete it as racist.

Please explain why YOU think it's racist ?

Certainly not all black people play Basketball, but if you look at the NBL team rosters, those that do play, are very good at it.

In Australia, indigenous players in the various sports codes are given much praise for their ability and held up as icons to younger indigenous players.

Under the "Racism Guidelines" posted by Мишель, this is racist. Do you agree ?

Edit: When you block a post due to "racism", do you work to any guidelines, or do you just go by "gut feeling" ?

T.A.

No, I don't go on "gut feeling" I go on the education I have had in social justice and studies in a variety of equality issues. I have read the essays, studies and articles written by people of various races and written several essays of my own. I have done my best to have an actual understanding of these issues. If you are genuinely interested in understanding the topic, I am happy to help.

However, at the moment it actually appears that you are determined to dig yourself a deeper hole and I genuinely suspect your motives in posting your "joke".

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Reality Internet Personality

Upon reading the posts of Мишель and Es99, I now see this joke from a different vantage point. My mind has been changed. The joke is racist.

I suppose now the more interesting question is the one that Gary posted.

Does that mean it can't be told?

Which brings us back to your insight on context and your audience.

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Reality Internet Personality

The next time any one of us is in a car, I challenge us to tune into a comedy channel on the radio and listen for ten minutes. I believe we will find that lots and lots and lots of things that fall into the category of racist are part of jokes told on comedy stations. Is it bad if I laugh at some, or maybe even most, of the jokes that I hear in that ten minute period?

Comedy can be a driving force in social change. The classic examples in US television history are "All In The Family" and its spin-off "The Jeffersons", but more recently does anyone remember the t.v. show "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy?" The stars of that show used ridiculous over-the-top stereotyping of two cultural groups (gay men and straight men) to tremendous comedic effect. In doing so, that show also seemed to play a pivotal positive role in the USA gay rights movement.

Comedic superstar Jerry Seinfeld was in the news earlier this year complaining that P.C. college audiences were killing comedy. I am a fan of comedy and I do not want to see it killed. I am a fan of free speech. I am also a fan of good taste. It is not easy to balance all of these things that I value. So yes, context and audience do matter.

I do not have Es's extensive background in social justice and equality issues. I am grateful to serve with her currently as part of the moderating team. I benefit frequently from her insights, but sometimes I am forced to fly solo. For example, about six months ago I whacked a joke that was posted on my private team forum because I deemed that it was racist. I based this judgment solely on my gut feelings. I whacked the joke immediately upon seeing it. I did not give it a second's thought. I did not consult anyone else. I simply whacked it. "Gut feeling" is not necessarily a bad way to go sometimes.

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Joke is Funny.

Do not care if it offends or hurts.

Discussion of it is funnier than Joke.

yup

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

What people find humorous says a lot about who they are.

Perhaps. But a person's actions say far more about who they are.

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What people find humorous says a lot about who they are.

Perhaps. But a person's actions say far more about who they are.

I'm sorry Angela. I won't post again.

That was certainly not the intent of my comment. I apologize if it came across that way to you.

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That is a crap statement. It is not "unreasoned" I have quite good reasons to believe it's true.

So what if Asians are better at math ? Is it a sin ? Does it shatter your belief that all people are at the same flat line of equality in everything ? There are easily spotted differences between individuals why can't there be differences between groups of people ? To deny that possibility is bad science

Statistics really. Differences between individual humans are clear and easy to spot. That said, once you start talking about large groups of people, in this case entire races, those differences are gone. Thats not bad science, thats actually established scientific fact.

I do not say that because of "stereotypes", I say that because I've seen Asian engineers in action. VERY smart cookies, they made me feel like I'd just worked how to add 2+2. (That's a deep compliment but probably also racist, sheesh...

Yeah, but are they good engineers because they are Asians, or are they good engineers because they went to a good university and worked their assess off to become that good?

And whats a better compliment? Saying that someone is good at something because of some belief that their race gives them natural abilities to be good at it, or saying that they are good because they worked hard to get where they are?

Reverse logic there. It's because you DO take people on the individual level that you start to notice the similarities. A stereotype does mean people are punched out like plastic dolls on a production line. It means that across a group of individuals, there will be certain common characteristics that identify their origin. An Australian does not have the same mindset as an American. [quote]You and I share the same genome but we are not identical, you will be naturally better at some things than me and visa versa.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with race (in fact, we probably share the same race). I'm not better at some things because I'm white, I'm better at them because of my socioeconomic background, the way my parents raised me, my education, my personal interests and ambitions and my biological settings (which come from my parents, not my race).

Sure, mindsets differ from country to country, but that doesn't mean lazy stereotypes are true. Say I were to judge Australians based on what I've seen on Master Chef, I would say that Australians are less competitive than for example Americans (side note, its actually quite fascinating to compare American Master Chef with the Australian Master Chef). But to say that all Australians are non competitive, which would be a stereotype, would be nonsense. Plenty of Australians are competitive and plenty of Americans are non competitive. Even if stereotypes are based on something that may actually be true, the stereotype itself is such a distortion, such a broad generalization, that its pretty useless.

The Asians are good at math example is another one. Yes, some Asians do score higher than average on international math tests. But why? Well because for one their educational system places a heavy emphasis on stuff like math, more so than say America or Europe. Does that make Asians naturally good at math? No, it means they simply practice it a lot more than we do and get better at it because of that. Also, the stereotype is extremely broad. Generally we see that Chinese, Japanese and Korean students do well on these math tests. But Asia compromises of a lot of places and with over half of the worlds population living in Asia, well those three places are hardly representative of what Asians are like.

May I suggest you have a look at the results from the recent World Athletics Championships in China. Then we can discuss "provable facts".
And women ARE naturally better than men at many things, and there are things where men have the advantage. But that subject is off topic here !!

You mean where the white Dutch girl came in first and second?

How much of the fact that so many black people make it to the finals is because of their race and how much of it is because the accepted stereotype is that black people are better at athletics so white people just don't bother to compete? How much of it is because black people just train more and better at athletics and as a result perform better?

Read my post again ! I said African Origin not "People from Africa" !!

People of African Origin represented the USA, The Caribbean, the UK and many other countries

Of course no scientist would make any statement like that, even if it was true. As soon as they opened their mouth people like you would be reaching for the torches and pitchforks !!

That only makes the group of people you are making broad generalizing statements about even bigger.

And no, it wouldn't happen because again, actual scientists know better than to make such grand statements about so many different people, living in so many different conditions.

I did say surprisingly accurate, NOT 100% accurate.. I have no doubt 30 year old accountants exist, it's just that I've never met one.

Exactly, you haven't met them. You have met a handful of accountants, of which most fit your stereotype of accountant, and so you see it fit to declare that your stereotype is true for most accountants, of which millions exist all around the world? And you don't see that perhaps you are not in a position of authority to make such statements?

Not at all, it's that the older you get, you realise just how many stereotype you've met. You also realise, that to a lot of those people, you were also regarded as one.....

I think its that as the older you get, only the people that conform to your stereotypical views you remember, exactly BECAUSE they fit your stereotype.

That is how the human brain works. It categorizes, creates stereotypes of everything and everyone, and then every time you see something or someone, it gets placed within its appropriate category. But then you meet someone who doesn't fit in your category, so your brain doesn't know where to place that person and as a result it becomes more difficult to remember that person.

Oh Please, In heaven's name, DON'T judge us by that !! :D :D

Why? I think it makes you guys look better than if I were to judge you by the Steve Irwin standard.

We may not all be bronzed surfers, but even without the accent, you can pick an Aussie, the same for Americans, people from the UK and so on.

Actually, I can't. If it weren't for the accent, all the Australian people I've seen might as well have come from the Netherlands. That actually goes for most white people.

What does a "racist xenophobe" look like compared to a "normal" person ? Some of the worst "racist xenophobes" I've met wore suits and ties and did not have a single tattoo.

True, they don't look that different from everyone else, but you'll know once they start talking about how much they don't like Muslims and immigrants.

Finally. To be unjustifiably called a "Racist" is now an insult. When it comes to the point that someone can be accused of "Racism" for giving someone or a group of people a compliment, it means the system is severely broken and nothing will ever convince me otherwise

T.A.

Some men claim that when they comment on a woman's appearance even though they don't know that woman at all, they are just giving a compliment. Most women on the other hand, are justifiably creeped out by strange men telling them they look beautiful and do not consider it to be a compliment at all. Now you can side with the men saying that they are not sexists just because they gave a woman a 'compliment' or you side with the women who feel that such unwanted compliments are sexist.

Sexism and racism have a number of similarities and this is one. You may think that you are giving someone a compliment, but its very well possible that the other person thinks you are a racist and that your compliment isn't a compliment at all.

More gold nuggets from an article entitled "The Insidious Effect of Political Correctness" by Dr. Ben Carson, Mar 19, 2014

...

Political correctness... is in place to ensure conformity to the prescribed expressions and lifestyles dictated by the elites.

There are rewards of acceptance and praise for members of the "in crowd" as they attempt to silence or destroy any who dare think for themselves or express opposing views. Similarly, the purveyors of PC seize upon a word or phrase, which they emphasize in an attempt to divert attention away from the actual issue that doesn't fit their narrative.

You do realize that Dr. Carson and everyone else who complains about the 'pc police' does exactly the same thing they are accusing the pc people of doing?

In this case, Carson is creating his own 'in crowd' which seeks others to conform to their own norms, which are just as well dictated by 'elites'. And when someone starts accusing others of being 'pc' they too seek to divert the discussion away from the actual issue, but rather make it about how its bad to be pc and how pc is destroying American freedom or something.

...

This is sobering information, and those who want to fundamentally change America would much rather demonize someone who is exposing this agenda than engage in a conversation that they cannot win. Others join in the fray, happily marching in lockstep with those who are attempting to convert our nation to something we won't recognize, having no idea that they are being used.

Vladimir Lenin is sometimes credited with coining the phrase "useful idiots" to describe such individuals.

Oh sweet sweet irony.

Again, Dr. Carson is doing the EXACT SAME THING he is accusing others of doing. In reality, pc is not a problem, pc doesn't even really exist. Its an imaginary problem created by demagogues such as Carson to try and silence opposition.

The useful idiots? Well, Brutus, it appears you are one of them, lapping up every little bit of nonsense Carson throws at you and then plaster it all over the internet.

The American people must learn to identify and ignore political correctness if we are to escape the bitter ideological grenades that are destroying our unity and strength. Political correctness is impotent if we the people are fearless. Let us emphasize intelligent discussion of issues and leave the smear campaigns to those with no constructive ideas.

Of course, leaving out the fact that calling everyone who disagrees with you 'pc' is actually a smear campaign and lets you avoid intelligent discussion and the risk of being exposed as some brainless idiot hack with no constructive ideas.

Yes, Carson is creating an "in crowd" in which he seeks others to conform. He's pointing out how we have drifted so far away from the principles which made us successful in the past that we are on the verge of destruction. And, yes, when someone starts accusing others of being "PC" they are diverting the discussion back towards the actual issue (because PC seeks to divert the discussion away from the actual issue) and, yes, "PC" is destroying America (not "or something").

Right, the issue being Political Correctness itself. You have managed to turn a discussion about 'racism' into a discussion about political correctness and its supposed effect on the United States. Good job, you derailed the thread.

Useful idiots (also knows as "tools") are used to help dictators rise to power. Once the tools are no longer useful, they are discarded. That's the big surprise after it starts to happen.

Well I'm glad you know your future if Carson is ever elected as president.

Here in the U.S., we originally started with the idea that the people are *above* those in government. The people tell those in government what to do. Today "PC" is being used to invert that. PC is used to divert attention away from the discussion of real life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Correct, by consistently whining about PC you manage to turn real discussions about how to improve lives of people into a mudslinging contest between conservatives and liberals. You are indeed part of the narrative that actively disrupts and sabotages meaningful discussion, in favor of some drivel about how racists and sexists people are being 'prosecuted' because of their racist and sexist actions.

What's more important? A) Discussing the mathematical certainty of a financial disaster on a national scale unless we start paying down our national debt? or B) Discussing how rubix cube and vagina jokes hurt people with words?

You are creating a false dichotomy by suggesting that you can't have more than one discussion at the same time on an internet forum. The fact that multiple threads get posted in on a daily basis and have an active discussion concerning their respective topics proves how utterly wrong you are. If you want to talk about how national debt is destroying America, I suggest you begin your own topic, rather than hijack this topic. Oh wait, you don't actually want to discuss the National Debt, you only want to use that topic as a way to derail other topics that discuss things that you don't like. You want to use it as a way to steer the conversation away from areas that make you uncomfortable, you want to use it as a way to control other peoples speech.

Well, it seems that in my efforts to respond to your post I have aided you in derailing the topic. That ends now, I will no longer respond to your posts in this topic unless they are actually about racism. My apologies to the OP for derailing his topic.

Some people call it political correctness, some people call it basic respect.

Having been for my entire life on the butt end of "politically incorrect" jokes I am so damn happy that the PC brigade stepped in to speak up for me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

There are power structures in our society, and the people at the butt of these jokes are not the elite, that's for sure.

There are offensive stereotypes about every country and you'd have to be really sure of the people around you before you trot out something like that. Most people complaining about the PC brigade are those who benefit from the unacknowledged privilege due to their race and their gender. To people like me, equality is an aspiration. To the anti-PC brigade, equality is a threat.

The opening question was "Is this joke racist?"

Absolutely its racist. Is if funny? I guess that depends on the audience and the context.

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Reality Internet Personality

People can get this wrong the first time
they tell a joke. There is really very
little need or excuse for getting it wrong
a second time!

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Three out of the last five posts in this thread needed to be hidden.

I am locking this thread at this time.

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