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Another Mass Shooting in the U.S.A.
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bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
I'm more afraid of the government than getting shot in a mass shooting. If you want to stop mass shootings stop creating gun free slaughter houses. I live in a town were most people are packing and own guns and we have no crime. Last break in was 3 years ago. You must live in a fairly small town, it has lower crimes rates than any town in the US with a population > 25,000 (source. Not sure the solution there would work too well in my home town of NYC. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
bobby, when the population density of the U.S. reaches what the population density of NYC is, then I might actually consider the repeal of the 2nd amendment. But until then, you guys need to figure out how to strip search everybody entering NYC for guns. Maybe raise taxes? Ya, that's the answer. Raise taxes to create a task force to strip search everybody entering NYC for guns. NYC will then be a gun-free zone. Everybody perfectly safe! Problem solved. Why haven't you done this yet? It's been years. Come on! Get with the program up there! When you do it, maybe the rest of the country will do it! Lead by example! Come on! (oh ya... do as I say, not as I do... ya, that's working....) Why do we need to strip search everybody entering NYC? Who is arguing that the solution that appears to work well in NYC should be applied to the US in general? Oh that's you. We need to do as you say. Managed to persuade anybody to do that (without waving a gun around)? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Frank Send message Joined: 28 Jan 14 Posts: 10 Credit: 14,413,096 RAC: 27 |
You obviously don't know why the founding fathers put in the second amendment. They feared government just like me. I am not afraid, I'll leave the police to put up yellow crime scene tape somewhere else. The second amendment was not put in the bill of rights for hunting it was so we could defend ourselves and our families. You call the cops. If you live in a small town as I, they will take about 20 to 45 minutes to get to your house just in time to put up the tape. Works well in FL, TX, GA etc etc etc they have large cities also. The good part is some states are passing open carry laws which will do more to curb crime. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
You obviously don't know why the founding fathers put in the second amendment. They feared government just like me. I am not afraid, I'll leave the police to put up yellow crime scene tape somewhere else. The founding fathers believed that a standing army was not a good idea, instead they wanted "well regulated militias" maintained by the states. Hence my comment noting fear of a military invasion by the British in response to Guy's post about "original purpose". I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
John Neale Send message Joined: 16 Mar 00 Posts: 634 Credit: 7,246,513 RAC: 9 |
I am an outsider, but there's something that I just can't get my head around. On the one hand, from what I observe - for example, by watching the Republican presidential debates - American political discourse (in some quarters, at least) seems to be dominated by the apparent threat of "Islamic fundamentalist jihadist terrorism" on American soil. The recent attack in California stands out as an example. Several politicians are calling for drastic measures to combat this perceived threat, with at least one calling for a ban on all Muslims from entering the USA. On the other hand, again from what I observe, America is (and has been, for some time) suffering from fairly regular "mass shootings" that are in no way related to terrorism (although there have been some cases that are considered terrorism, but are not perpetrated by "Islamic fundamentalist jihadists") - attacks on abortion clinics spring to mind, as do some others that seem to have been perpetrated by mentally unsound individuals who gained access to deadly weapons. There have been a number of highly publicised cases of mass killings in the very recent past. My observation is that the numbers of people killed (and injured) in mass killings not related to "Islamic fundamentalist jihadist terrorism" exceeds by far the number of those killed and injured by "Islam-related" terrorism. I also observe that those politicians who are calling the loudest for the Islamic terrorism threat to be dealt with, are also generally those who support America's current gun laws. If my observations are correct, why aren't the Republican presidential debates being dominated by a discussion around ways to curb the spiraling incidence of non-Islamic-related mass killings that is afflicting the USA? (Apologies for any spelling deficiencies; here in the former British colony of South Africa, our spelling of English is closely aligned with that used in the United Kingdom.) |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
The second amendment's original purpose is as valid today as it was a couple of centuries ago. Clyde, look at what I was responding to before asking me what I understand, Guy was talking about "original purpose" of the second amendment and "a couple of centuries ago" - the war of 1812 (against a British military invasion) ended in 1815 (or "a couple of centuries ago"). The original purpose, at least in part, of the second amendment was to ensure readiness to repel such an invasion. What is so hard to understand? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
The second amendment's original purpose is as valid today as it was a couple of centuries ago. Nothing, I'm asking somebody else what their beliefs are, I'm not saying anything about my own. BTW: Any response to: It's interesting. It's also interesting to me that 20 years ago was about the time Governor Christie was entering politics with a mission to ensure that a ban on assault weapons was implemented. He seems to have moved away from that view over the years. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
It's interesting. It's also interesting to me that 20 years ago was about the time Governor Christie was entering politics with a mission to ensure that a ban on assault weapons was implemented. He seems to have moved away from that view over the years. Couldn't the same be said of any culture compared to most others? Or are you making a case for American exceptionalism? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
It's interesting. It's also interesting to me that 20 years ago was about the time Governor Christie was entering politics with a mission to ensure that a ban on assault weapons was implemented. He seems to have moved away from that view over the years. You are having this discussion with a European (at least by birth). I do not believe as you that European cultures are primitive, nor do I believe, as you suggest Churchill did, that American culture is in need of civilizing. I suspect that cultures are something like species, different in character though not significantly different in advancement (all extant species have been subject to essentially equal levels of evolution, and can be traced back to a common ancestor, I suspect cultures are are subject to equivalent pressures, and also have a common ancestor). I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
@John, First you have to understand American Media. There is Ted Turner's opinion and there is Rupert Murdoch's opinion. Those two dominate the little screen "news." Of course 99% or their programming is opinion cleverly disguised to look like news. Next you have to factor in that fear is a driver of sales. An ordinary mass killing is, well, ordinary. Now a terrorist mass killing is extraordinary and hence something to over hype so you get more eyeballs and hence sell more advertising making your obscenely fat pocket bigger. Third you need to understand the number of people killed by guns in the USA is in sharp decline. The only thing making it noticeable now is an increase in mass suicide shootings. Fourth you need to understand humans are terrible at comparing risk. A mass shooting is "horrible" so it is seen are far worse than a car accident which is "ordinary." The actual risks are now about the same as the safety increases in cars, airbags, crumple zones, better emergency medicine, and so on. No one has this feeling of terror about crossing the street and being struck by a car, but they have a hysterical response to a gun. Same risk though. Now as to politicians, they have two tools to trot out to buy votes. The first is to promise two chickens in every pot. The second is to offer protection from some evil, real or manufactured. In this case the evil is the unknown fear of Islam. So keep them out and have your gun ready if one happens to sneak in anyway. Can't think of a better way to spread fear and keep your name coming out the talking head's mouth. Anyway hope that helps. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
You are having this discussion with a European (at least by birth). Clyde, I have not read Churchill. Before Bobby posted, I guessed what you meant but I also saw how it could be read. Whether Bobby guessed what you meant but responded based on the way it could be read or did not know what you were saying and responded based on how it could be read ... ? Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
You are having this discussion with a European (at least by birth). You said: BTW: I usually have this discussion with Europeans. Who apparently believe that America, is just European - Primitive. It's not. The proximity of the word "Primitive" to the word "European" appeared to suggest you were saying European culture is primitive, that you were restating what you previously said: We, in The USA , have evolved beyond the primitive European belief in...(here) and Very European and primitive thinking.(here) Ever read Winston Churchill's (American born mother): History of the English-Speaking Peoples? Not that I recall, though I may have seen the series of plays the BBC produced based on the work. Re: Different Cultures. You claim expertise in cultural comparison, not me. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
'If You Leave Me, I Will Kill You': The Gut-Wrenching Truth About Guns, Abuse and Murder in America Another side to America's gun problem. Reality Internet Personality |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
'If You Leave Me, I Will Kill You': The Gut-Wrenching Truth About Guns, Abuse and Murder in America The ugly truth that you refuse to understand: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/ Premeditated mass shootings in public places are happening more often, some researchers say, plunging towns and cities into grief and riveting the attention of a horrified nation. In general, though, fewer Americans are dying as a result of gun violence — a shift that began about two decades ago. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
'If You Leave Me, I Will Kill You': The Gut-Wrenching Truth About Guns, Abuse and Murder in America That shows how messed up your country is. Black people know that if they carry guns they are more likely to be targeted by police and be considered scary and dangerous than white people. Personally I find anyone walking around with a gun scary, especially as the sort of person who thinks that walking around with a gun is a good idea is the last person you want walking around with a gun. Reality Internet Personality |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
'If You Leave Me, I Will Kill You': The Gut-Wrenching Truth About Guns, Abuse and Murder in America Not sure of your point, Gary. Are you pointing out that its insane that two in three homicides are committed with guns? Because to me that's a terrifying statistic. The article compares past America with present America. When talking about gun problems it is worth comparing present America with places that don't have guns. Reality Internet Personality |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
The article compares past America with present America. When talking about gun problems it is worth comparing present America with places that don't have guns.It is worth comparing with past to see how much progress is being made and what thing is not changing and the progress is still being made. Comparisons with elsewhere are rather useless as they have utterly different forms of government where the citizens are used to being sheep and given cradle to grave rules they must obey. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
... where the citizens are used to being sheep and given cradle to grave rules they must obey. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed today? Reality Internet Personality |
celttooth Send message Joined: 21 Nov 99 Posts: 26503 Credit: 28,583,098 RAC: 0 |
to see how much progress is being made Gary how can people see problems when they believe every thing is all OK? edit: I was just askin'...... |
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