Another Mass Shooting in the U.S.A.

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Message 1746603 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 20:29:09 UTC - in response to Message 1746595.  

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/12/01/armed-citizens-deter-terrorist-attacks-in-detroit-police-chief-says/
DETROIT (CBS Detroit) More guns, fewer problems. That, at least, is Detroit Police Chief’s James Craig’s view of Detroit and fears about a possible terrorist attack.
While cities around the world are on heightened alert following a devastating ISIS attack in Paris, Detroit’s police chief says he believes the fear that armed citizens would return fire serves as a deterrent for a potential terrorist attack in the rust belt city.
Craig called more officers to duty and moved some to locations deemed higher priorities following the attacks in Paris.
But he also noted “a lot of Detroiters” have concealed pistol licenses and “the same rules apply to terrorists as they do to some gun-toting thug.”
“If you’re a terrorist, or a carjacker, you want unarmed citizens,” Craig said.
More than 30,000 of Detroit’s 688,000 residents are legally armed, according to Michigan State Police. There were 6,974 concealed-pistol licenses issued to residents in 2013, more than double those in 2009, and 7,584 issued in 2012, the state police said, per a report in the Detroit News.

I agree with him 100%.

Yes. More guns to the mass shooters and terrorists.
All four weapon used in the shooting attacks had been purchased legally.
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Message 1746607 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 20:55:21 UTC - in response to Message 1746605.  

Yes. More guns to the mass shooters and terrorists.
All four weapon used in the shooting attacks had been purchased legally.

And also in Europe?

No. They are been purchased illegally.
Often from the Balcan states and Russia and now perhaps even from Ukraine.
But give civilians more guns or the right the carry guns wont help against mass shooters and terrorists.
Especially not against terrorists that often are suicidal.
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Message 1746624 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 22:23:12 UTC - in response to Message 1746601.  
Last modified: 3 Dec 2015, 22:25:16 UTC

Gary you are quite correct in pointing out that collection of words is not a sentence and means nothing. Is it possible that The Clyde is in reality a computerized random word generator?
Putting his stream of posts into Eliza might prove entertaining. I'm sure Lucy van Pelt would have a blast. He does act at times as if he would fail the Turing Test.

In any case until he is capable of making his meaning understood by others he is just trying to teach a pig to sing. However, I am making the assumption that there is meaning behind the messages, there may not be; if so hopefully intentionally as the other possibility is a bit disturbing.
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Message 1746626 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 22:27:28 UTC - in response to Message 1746624.  

I believe he has expressed himself very well.


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Message 1746630 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 22:33:16 UTC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/
Premeditated mass shootings in public places are happening more often, some researchers say, plunging towns and cities into grief and riveting the attention of a horrified nation. In general, though, fewer Americans are dying as a result of gun violence — a shift that began about two decades ago.


At the very same time the number of guns has been growing
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/dean-weingarten/how-many-guns-are-there-in-america/
The U.S. population increased from 133 million in 1945 to 313 million in 2012, a 135% increase in population, or over a 200% increase in the number of guns per capita. Guns per capita rose from .35 in 1945, to 1.1 guns per capita in 2012.

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Message 1746636 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 23:08:35 UTC - in response to Message 1746630.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/
Premeditated mass shootings in public places are happening more often, some researchers say, plunging towns and cities into grief and riveting the attention of a horrified nation. In general, though, fewer Americans are dying as a result of gun violence — a shift that began about two decades ago./quote]
At the very same time the number of guns has been growing
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/dean-weingarten/how-many-guns-are-there-in-america/
[quote]The U.S. population increased from 133 million in 1945 to 313 million in 2012, a 135% increase in population, or over a 200% increase in the number of guns per capita. Guns per capita rose from .35 in 1945, to 1.1 guns per capita in 2012.

Is it really the amount of weapons that is the problem?
The lowest gun ownership rate among the 178 countries surveyed as of 2007 was reported from Tunisia, with 0.1 (or a total number of 9,000 guns), due to very strict gun control.
Anybody remember the terrorist attack in Tunisia this summer?
The scandinavian countries has a very high gun ownership rate.
Do we see mass shootings here?
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Message 1746645 - Posted: 3 Dec 2015, 23:53:58 UTC - in response to Message 1746418.  

Another case of a "good guy with a gun" not doing anything. Is it possible that is possible that is a Wayne LaPierre myth designed to help sell firearms?

There's never 1 around, is there?

The NRA (and those that support them) just can't admit that they have blood on their hands.

Now let's explore this myth that more guns saves lives.

Since 2011 registered firearm ownership in the U.S. (who knows what the real number is) has gone up 4 fold, but these shootings have also gone up 3 fold in that time and not a week has gone past since 2011 where 1 of these hasn't happened there and not 1 "good guy with a gun" has been present at any of them.

Now tell me that these arn't the greatest examples of stupidity for the whole world to see.

Cheers.
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Message 1746650 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 0:04:38 UTC - in response to Message 1746645.  

Since 2011 registered firearm ownership in the U.S. (who knows what the real number is) has gone up 4 fold, but these shootings have also gone up 3 fold in that time


In 1993, there were seven homicides by firearm for every 100,000 Americans, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. By 2013, that figure had fallen by nearly half, to 3.6 — a total of 11,208 firearm homicides. The rate of shootings that didn't result in death declined even more precipitously, from 725 in 1993 per 100,000 people to 175 in 2013.


Gun ownership up 4x [per Wiggo] and gun deaths down 2x [per Washington Post, linked earlier] and gun shootings even more.
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Message 1746723 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 3:12:09 UTC - in response to Message 1746596.  
Last modified: 4 Dec 2015, 3:13:04 UTC

The Left, the Anti-Free Speech Movement infecting our Culture and Universities, and the Anti-White, Anti-Male, Anti-Christian Bigots.

Syntax error, unable to identify, subject, verb, object; semantics not called.

Gary...

Again... You prove the following: When losing an Intellectual Argument - Attack Grammar.

Your 'Grammar Attack' doesn't matter.

What does matter: It's all true, of course.

Re: 'The Donald'.

Everyone is picking and choosing, which Anti 'The Donald' is against, and disregarding others. Not really believing 'The Donald' would go that far regarding 'Other Things'.

Sort of reminds me of around 85 years ago. In another Country, on another Continent.

The Left, and other assorted Bigots, better understand.

Gary...

I do apologize for my bad grammar.

Not!!!!

So equality is bad? I'm of French descent, equality is only right and just and that either applies to everyone or no one and that includes LGBT people, disabled people, seniors, etc, etc, etc.

And no I'm not gay, I just have a strong sense of ethics, just as My Dad, My Grandpa and My Great Grandpa all did.. My Dad said to Me to have an Open Mind, and not a Closed Mind, so I do have an Open Mind.

I'm also against Gerrymandering, to rig elections, like in Texas or in Florida as examples.

Oh and not all Christians want to push stuff down others throats, I support PP, even Jews do, Jewish law says the life of a Woman is more important than any potential life that is within a womans body(see the link below), no ifs, ands, or buts, it's absolute.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/sex.html#4

And I'm not for Voter suppression, by simultaneously requiring Voter ID and then in minority neighborhoods closing DMV offices under the pretense of budget cuts, while White neighborhoods see no such cuts, that is racism and is wrong.

Some in the GOP, border on Fascism, but then there is a streak of real bigotry there, the Democratic Party has none of that, one Congressional GOP swine(Rep Cresent Hardy, R-NV04) in NV said that "Disabled People are a Drain on Society(a video of Him is there with Him saying that, don't believe Me? Go watch the video, I find Rep Cresent Hardy very offensive.)", that is Fascism/NAZIsm. Disabled People early on were exterminated with a bullet to the back of the head and were among the first to be exterminated(this was before gas chambers equipped with non working shower heads were made and that used zyklon b gas to gas people enmass with), My Dad helped with Medical care to victims in a Work/Death Camp the NAZIs ran and tried to profit from, since His unit the 368th Medical was attached to the US 3rd Army(Gen Patton's outfit) and the 3rd Army liberated a camp in WWII Europe, My Dad was a Medic w/a rank of Corporal, He was recommended for 2 commendations for His paperwork on Allied and POW patients(He served in N.Africa, Sicily, Anzio(near Rome in Italy, the Waffen SS(Hermann Goering Division) shelled a Hospital there at Anzio(under Hitlers direct Orders, a War Crime, people were later tried and hanged until dead for that and the Malmedy Massacre), My Dad worked out of that Hospital at Anzio, so His life, as well as My Sister's life, and My life were in danger then, luckily He didn't get injured), N.France and Occupied Germany until October 1946 when He was finally sent home, He applied for enlistment in 1942), My Dad is My hero, He saved lives of those He hardly knew and even of those He didn't know and He did so without being armed I think, but then with His eyesight He was not qualified to be an infantryman, since one eye was 20/50 and the other was 20/100, which was which? I don't know.
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Message 1746740 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 4:44:28 UTC - in response to Message 1746723.  

"so I do have an Open Mind."

"Some in the GOP, border on Fascism, but then there is a streak of real bigotry there, the Democratic Party has none of that"



Now thats irony........
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Message 1746743 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 4:52:18 UTC

Closed Mind to Anything GOPTer said:

...so I do have an Open Mind.



...there is a streak of real bigotry there, the Democratic Party has none of that


There has been More Mass Shootings, More Murders, More Racism, More Bigotry, More Prejudice, More of Everythang Hateful during 7 Years of PitifulPeacePrizin'Hustlin'OBlabbyHussein than All GOPTer Prez Combined.

With Over A Year to Go, The Above DEM/Lib Leader is Going to Continue Chaos of The HuWoMan Condition on This Planet.

Yup

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1746751 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 5:46:21 UTC - in response to Message 1746723.  

So equality is bad? I'm of French descent, equality is only right and just and that either applies to everyone or no one and that includes LGBT people, disabled people, seniors, etc, etc, etc.

As should be obvious I'm also of French descent, if that means anything.
Equality is an inalienable right. Something that tea scum can't seem to get. Right there in the 14th amendment and the declaration of independence, both of which they like to quote, but just not the parts they disagree with.

I'm also against Gerrymandering, to rig elections, like in Texas or in Florida as examples.

And California say when Jerry Brown had his first two terms?!

Oh and not all Christians want to push stuff down others throats

Not all Muslims want to push stuff down others throats. Unfortunately there are enough kooks who do in any religion that claims superiority and a single god that it appears like they all do. Those two items, superiority and monotheism, together make for the most dangerous combination, more destructive than a thermonuclear weapon.

And I'm not for Voter suppression, by simultaneously requiring Voter ID and then in minority neighborhoods closing DMV offices under the pretense of budget cuts, while White neighborhoods see no such cuts, that is racism and is wrong.

Is that racism or gerrymandering? One need be mindful that one vile act may look like another.

Some in the GOP, border on Fascism, but then there is a streak of real bigotry there, the Democratic Party has none of that

I suggest you read up on the Dixiecrats to get a much better understanding of racism in party politics.

Oh and those fascists you refer to are not republican, they are tea scum and call real republicans RINO's. They would have run Barry Goldwater out of the party!

Now can we get back to the subject of mass shootings and why American hegemony at all levels (bosses, dog catcher on up) causes people to snap.

Vic, I'm sure your father was a member of the greatest generation doing exceptional things. However, if you are trying to play one-upmanship with relatives, I should advise you one of my cousins is Jean de Lattre de Tassigny, Marshal of France.
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Message 1746811 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 13:53:33 UTC

12 pipe bombs 1000's of rounds of ammo equipment said to be able to make other types of Bombs and all bought legally !! .

What does that tell you mmmmmm

Man goes to building mingles with work colleagues but is seen leaving very angry .

Then goes home gets guns and comes back to kill everyone ???

Was he a terrorist or a man that maybe had been insulted for being a Muslim once to many times so starts to prepare to do something bad !!

Probably a bit off both .

So 2 terrorist attacks and the body count is 23 dead and 3 terrorists dead , not a bad kill ratio .

War of attrition , with a kill ratio like that we would not have won wwII .

Australia 2 terrorist attacks 3 dead and 2 terrorists dead , not so good of a kill ratio in Australia

Wonder why !!!!!!!

Oh right Gun control doesn't work does it and every one being armed is the right way to go .

Yeh right if you lot say so . The Forrest Gump principal would fit here "Stupid is as Stupid does "
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Message 1746819 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 14:36:55 UTC - in response to Message 1746816.  

This Left Wing attack against prayer for the victims, and calling the NRA President a Terrorists. Is doomed to failure.

It smells of defeat and panic. Regarding the rejection of The Left's Agenda in this and other matters, by the American Voters


So does that mean America will no longer be able to call itself "The land of the Free and home of the brave " as everyone is looking over there shoulder for the next bad man or terrorist .

Seems like the terrorists are winning over your way both in body count and fear if your all going to be armed .

Wonder if that was the intention of those great men you revere . You know the ones that drafted your constitution . Bet there rolling in the graves now at what America has become .
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Message 1746822 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 14:42:35 UTC - in response to Message 1746811.  

So 2 terrorist attacks and the body count is 23 dead and 3 terrorists dead , not a bad kill ratio .
What was the kill ratio in France, where guns are banned?
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Message 1746825 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 14:57:27 UTC - in response to Message 1746822.  
Last modified: 4 Dec 2015, 14:59:27 UTC

So 2 terrorist attacks and the body count is 23 dead and 3 terrorists dead , not a bad kill ratio .
What was the kill ratio in France, where guns are banned?

Here's what an Englishman, Joe Saward, who lives in Paris thinks of US gun policy. His normal subject is F1 motor racing.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/12/03/on-the-subject-of-guns/

If Americans want to have the right to bear arms, then that is fine, but if that privilege comes with a cost, then they must pay the price for what they choose to call freedom. I prefer the freedom to be able to walk around without fear of being gunned down. Yes, it can happen (I live in Paris), the world is an uncertain place, but it is not very likely. The numbers tell the story.


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Message 1746827 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 15:09:24 UTC - in response to Message 1746822.  

So 2 terrorist attacks and the body count is 23 dead and 3 terrorists dead , not a bad kill ratio .
What was the kill ratio in France, where guns are banned?

Guns are not banned in France but:
Gun license are only issued to those who have special reasons, such as hunting or shooting interests, and only after a background check of criminal records and mental health.

The US.
According to a disputed clause in the US Constitution the right of citizens to keep and bear arms is not restricted. The laws vary from state to state. In 33 of the country's 50 states no background are required to check in order to buy weapons. In the most liberal states like Alaska and Idaho, the authorities are forbidden to keep records of who owns firearms.

Let's say the US adopt a law similar to France.
Would there be less mass shootings?
Don't think so.
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Message 1746830 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 15:22:54 UTC - in response to Message 1746828.  
Last modified: 4 Dec 2015, 15:29:11 UTC

I can just about understand that point of view, but as I have said before, Jo(sephine) Public probably doesn't have the training to be trusted to handle weapons in a crowded space. But maybe your US lawmakers could make and enforce a law similar to the old, Longbow law.
The English Archery Law of the 13th century ensured that English men would be come experts with the bow and arrow. In 1252 the ‘Assize of Arms’ ensured that all Englishmen were ordered, by law, that every man between the age of 15 to 60 years old should equip themselves with a bow and arrows. The Plantagenet King Edward III took this further and decreed the Archery Law in 1363 which commanded the obligatory practice of archery on Sundays and holidays!


As most outside of the US think, and I'm one of them, the problem of guns and the subsequent deaths will never ever go away until the US gets rid of them.

I know the solution would be very expensive and would take time, but if the US is going to continue to be seen as a civilised country, it needs to get rid of its guns asap.

Time to follow the Australian example, where gun deaths have halved since 1996.
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Message 1746837 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 15:41:59 UTC - in response to Message 1746830.  

Time to follow the Australian example, where gun deaths have halved since 1996.

The story.
On 28 April 1996 Australia happened one of Australia's history's bloodiest mass murders. 28-year-old Martin Bryant, who later were diagnosed with mental disabilities, opened unprovoked fire at a cafe in Port Arthur. He killed 35 and injured another 23.
The policy response was immediate. Stricter gun laws were passed, and for a year the government bought 650,000 weapons declared illegal - including semi and fully automatic rifles and shotguns - from private individuals. In parallel instituted a weapons amnesty that allowed individuals could submit an illegal and unregistered weapons without risking prosecution.
Australia then did exactly what the US arms lobby opposes. The result was a sharp reduction in lethal violence in the country.
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Message 1746839 - Posted: 4 Dec 2015, 15:46:07 UTC - in response to Message 1746834.  

Look, I have been around guns for nearly 50 years of my life, don't try to tell me a country that worships the gun so much is civilised.
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