Jan, are you suggesting that Hand Grenade Control Laws are needed in Sweden?... ":D)

Yes. There are many young women around with expensive purses and only God knows what's in them:)

Stop and frisk, or stop and dump? Could be there for an hour to go through it all. ;)

I think it would be safest to simply treat those purses as 'suspicious packages' and let the bomb disposal unit blow them up in an empty field somewhere ;)

I agree, Мишель.

At least it would avoid the possible extreme embarrassment of finding out what is in one...

At a place I used to work, a purse was found in the break room. Since the owner was nowhere to be seen after about an hour, a couple of the Managers at the company decided to open it and find some ID so they would know who to return it to.

They requested that some of us gather around as witnesses that they weren't going to steal anything.

Oh... My.... Gawd...

On top of everything else in that rather large purse was a uhhh.....

Rather LARGE... hmm... 'Adult Toy'.

Some things it is BEST to not know the contents of, and one of these things is women's purses....

(Oh, as an FYI... Those things were, at the time, somewhat illegal here in Texas).

Careful, you all (or y'all if you prefer), will be accused of 'Fashion Profiling'.....";D)

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Careful, you all (or y'all if you prefer), will be accused of 'Fashion Profiling'.....";D)

More likely going way off topic. Fan as I am of purses, this is not the thread to discuss them in!

---

Reality Internet Personality

Jan, are you suggesting that Hand Grenade Control Laws are needed in Sweden?... ":D)

Yes. There are many young women around with expensive purses and only God knows what's in them:)

Stop and frisk, or stop and dump? Could be there for an hour to go through it all. ;)

I think it would be safest to simply treat those purses as 'suspicious packages' and let the bomb disposal unit blow them up in an empty field somewhere ;)

I agree, Мишель.

At least it would avoid the possible extreme embarrassment of finding out what is in one...

At a place I used to work, a purse was found in the break room. Since the owner was nowhere to be seen after about an hour, a couple of the Managers at the company decided to open it and find some ID so they would know who to return it to.

They requested that some of us gather around as witnesses that they weren't going to steal anything.

Oh... My.... Gawd...

On top of everything else in that rather large purse was a uhhh.....

Rather LARGE... hmm... 'Adult Toy'.

Some things it is BEST to not know the contents of, and one of these things is women's purses....

(Oh, as an FYI... Those things were, at the time, somewhat illegal here in Texas).

I hope they were wearing the correct bio-hazard protective gear, OSHA regulations are very strict at workplaces on such things. ;)

---

Carrying a concealed weapon (CCW) ?
What's the point to do that?
Is it not better to say "I have a gun and you have not"?

Bobby;

I think you need to examine your referenced data on crime.http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

OVERALL crime is down 3.49% YTD However Murder is up 7.1% Rape is up 6.5% and Robbery is up 1%, these were offset by drops in Larceny, Felonius Assault and Auto Theft (GLA).

So more people were murdered, raped and robbed but less had their cars stolen.....


As to your stated 2 year statistics, that included the period when Stop and Frisk was being carried out and those lower percentages were the result of that tactic.

Please analyze before you quote.

I was responding to your comment that "[i]t worked in New York City for many years until 'Big Bird' decided it wasn't good for his image. Result: Crime and shooting increase since he took office". There was no categorization of "crime" in that comment, and the stats show this is not true.

You make the point that 2 years ago included stop and frisk, which was the reason I included those for comparison, as it shows overall crime has declined since use of stop and frisk was widespread. Compared to the 2 years ago numbers only murders have gone up (by 3.6%), though remain incredibly rare, and are 35% less today than there were 5 years ago, when use of stop and frisk was also widespread.

Of the other categories that are higher this year than last, rape is down on 2 years ago (by .7%) though up by 7.8% from 5 years ago, robbery is down 12.1% on 2 years ago and 12.7% on 5 years ago.

As a resident of NYC I am less likely to be the victim of any type of crime than when I moved here in 1999, and am less likely to be murdered (the only crime that has a percentage increase since DeBlasio became mayor) than I would be in most of the US (NYC has a murder rate of 2.2 per 100,000 compared to 4.5 for the US in general).

To suggest that reducing the use of stop and frisk has resulted in an increase of crime in NYC is counter to these statistics. If you would like further analysis regarding the statistics, I'll happily oblige.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

To suggest that reducing the use of stop and frisk has resulted in an increase of crime in NYC is counter to these statistics. If you would like further analysis regarding the statistics, I'll happily oblige.

Murder YTD 2015 = 257 2014 = 240 an increase of 17 bodies

Rape YTD 2015 = 1061 2014 = 996 an increase of 65 individuals

Robbery YTD 2015 = 12,078 2014 = 11,957 an increase of 121 incidents.

As far as the reduction in other crimes I don't feel that bad checks(larceny) GLA(autotheft) Burglaries and drive by slappings should be included when talking about violent crime. Your definition of reduction and mine are obviously different.

I'm glad you feel safe in the arms of Big Bird and may you not have your idyllic view of life violently changed.

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

...

Rape YTD 2015 = 1061 2014 = 996 an increase of 65 individuals

...

Not sure of the details here, but as most rapes are done by someone the victim knows, I am almost certain that guns would not help in these cases.

---

Reality Internet Personality

...

Rape YTD 2015 = 1061 2014 = 996 an increase of 65 individuals

...

Not sure of the details here, but as most rapes are done by someone the victim knows, I am almost certain that guns would not help in these cases.

Not only rapes are done by someone the victim knows.
Murders and man slaughters as well.

Guns don't protect you from violence!

...

Rape YTD 2015 = 1061 2014 = 996 an increase of 65 individuals

...

Not sure of the details here, but as most rapes are done by someone the victim knows, I am almost certain that guns would not help in these cases.

Not only rapes are done by someone the victim knows.
Murders and man slaughters as well.

Guns don't protect you from violence!

That's true, and having a gun in the house actually increases your chance of being a murder victim.

---

Reality Internet Personality

To suggest that reducing the use of stop and frisk has resulted in an increase of crime in NYC is counter to these statistics. If you would like further analysis regarding the statistics, I'll happily oblige.

Murder YTD 2015 = 257 2014 = 240 an increase of 17 bodies

Rape YTD 2015 = 1061 2014 = 996 an increase of 65 individuals

Robbery YTD 2015 = 12,078 2014 = 11,957 an increase of 121 incidents.

As far as the reduction in other crimes I don't feel that bad checks(larceny) GLA(autotheft) Burglaries and drive by slappings should be included when talking about violent crime. Your definition of reduction and mine are obviously different.

I'm glad you feel safe in the arms of Big Bird and may you not have your idyllic view of life violently changed.

Stop and frisk stats by year:

In 2009, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 581,168 times.
In 2010, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 601,285 times.
In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times.
In 2012, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 532,911 times
In 2013, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 191,558 times.
In 2014, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 46,235 times.
In the first two quarters of 2015, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 13,604 times.

In all years over 80% of those stopped were completely innocent.

Clearly the substantial drop in its use happened before DeBlasio became mayor.

Why you persist in comparing one DeBlasio year (2014) with another (2015)? How does doing so show that stop and frisk was effective and that "crime and shootings" have increased since DeBlasio became mayor?

As previously noted, you first said "crime" not "violent crime", not "serious crime", the term you used was "crime", and "crime" as measured by the NYPD has dropped, whether you're looking at this year compared to last, 2 years ago, 5 years ago or 22 years ago. You also said "shootings", and I see you have not said anything about them since I provided data showing this was also down this year compared to last though up by 6% on 2 years ago (though down this year compared to 5 years and 22 years ago).

If you want to move the goalposts from "crime" to "violent crime", that's fine, though don't assume I will not notice it happening.

For a before and after stop and frisk, (2 years ago compared to now), shootings and murder would seem to be the areas where the data might support you (though not by much, shootings are down by more than 22% from 5 years ago and murder by more than 35%). It could be argued that stop and frisk has little to do with the increase in murders, as other US cities have seen rises in such crimes this year (source.

Who said anything about feeling safe in the arms of the mayor? Why do you believe I have an "idyllic view of life" after I said I am now less likely to be a victim of crime than 16 years ago, and that my risk of being murdered is less in NYC than elsewhere in the US?

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Who said anything about feeling safe in the arms of the mayor? Why do you believe I have an "idyllic view of life" after I said I am now less likely to be a victim of crime than 16 years ago, and that my risk of being murdered is less in NYC than elsewhere in the US?

Yeah, but you have to live there I'm sorry for you, how sad people were not meant to live in those crowded conditions.

---

...

Rape YTD 2015 = 1061 2014 = 996 an increase of 65 individuals

...

Not sure of the details here, but as most rapes are done by someone the victim knows, I am almost certain that guns would not help in these cases.

Not only rapes are done by someone the victim knows.
Murders and man slaughters as well.

Guns don't protect you from violence!

Possibly does, many times does not.

Doesn't really matter regarding gun ownership in The USA.

There will be no great restriction regarding buying guns or ammo, in The USA.

There will be no Gun Confiscation, in The USA.

One can yell and scream, regarding what one thinks about Americans. Doesn't matter.

Just its culture.

And only a person, who has no real understanding that a Nations/Tribes Culture is the Foundation of all its Laws: Will believe one can change this.

The American Constitution (including the 2nd Amendment), and resulting Laws. Are the Codification of its Culture.

Yes. Culture that was codified for more than 200 years ago.
The 2nd Amendment is very specially.
Is there such law in some other country than the US?
Don't think so.
Here it's called state of emergency!

And does NYPD still have the motto "Serve and Protect"?
Zero tolerance is an other attitude!

In all years over 80% of those stopped were completely innocent.

20% crooks and undesirables. Not a place to live. Born there but escaped; Washington Heights is a zoo now.

In all years over 80% of those stopped were completely innocent.

Conversely then, 20% were not 'completely innocent'.

In 2014, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 46,235 times.

x20% = 9,247 stops that turned up a problem. I can go on with 2013, 12, 11, I won't.

Clearly the substantial drop in its use happened before DeBlasio became mayor.

Because they were effective!

If you want to move the goalposts from "crime" to "violent crime", that's fine, though don't assume I will not notice it happening.

No one has 'moved a goalpost' this thread is titled another Mass Shooting in the USA. That would be a 'violent' crime, you were the one to introduce stats on non-violent crime to compensate for the increase in violent crime in NYC.

It could be argued that stop and frisk has little to do with the increase in murders, as other US cities have seen rises in such crimes this year

It could also be argued that a duck is a locomotive, exactly WHICH of these cities have an instituted Stop and Frisk policy? We were discussing NYC not St Louis, or Baltimore. But since you insist in Red Herrings it is interesting that in your source,http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us/murder-rates-rising-sharply-in-many-us-cities.html?_r=0, the body count(not percentages) was the greatest in the two cities with the strictest gun control laws[edit](that is control of LEGALLY OWNED guns)[/edit] (which IS the topic of this thread), Chicago 294 and NYC 208, so far.

I apologize for insinuating you felt you were safe in the arms of the Mayor, and you do have the right to believe anything you wish. I also find it strange to be the one defending Stop and Frisk.

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

In all years over 80% of those stopped were completely innocent.

20% crooks and undesirables. Not a place to live. Born there but escaped; Washington Heights is a zoo now.

Percent?
I like to see the absolute numbers.

@Brutus This is not only America:)
https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/10/07/how-to-create-a-gun-free-america-in-5-ea
Step 5: Enforce. Guns won't just disappear because you passed a law.
So very true.

Step 5: Enforce. Guns won't just disappear because you passed a law.
So very true.

Like crystal meth, heroin, PCP, cocaine, marijuana, MDMA, et. al.? Haven't we proved just how perfect bans are. What an incredible drain on society with the number of felons they create. We have a great lesson when they banned booze, and now someone finally realized the war on drugs in no different and retroactively reduced sentences. But the it's terrible "BAN IT!" crew is at it again creating another failure and massive drain on society.

---

Step 5: Enforce. Guns won't just disappear because you passed a law.
So very true.

Like crystal meth, heroin, PCP, cocaine, marijuana, MDMA, et. al.? Haven't we proved just how perfect bans are. What an incredible drain on society with the number of felons they create. We have a great lesson when they banned booze, and now someone finally realized the war on drugs in no different and retroactively reduced sentences. But the it's terrible "BAN IT!" crew is at it again creating another failure and massive drain on society.

Here is a perfect example when politicians passes laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States
We had a referendum instead:)

Step 5: Enforce. Guns won't just disappear because you passed a law.
So very true.

Like crystal meth, heroin, PCP, cocaine, marijuana, MDMA, et. al.? Haven't we proved just how perfect bans are. What an incredible drain on society with the number of felons they create. We have a great lesson when they banned booze, and now someone finally realized the war on drugs in no different and retroactively reduced sentences. But the it's terrible "BAN IT!" crew is at it again creating another failure and massive drain on society.

Not all calls are calls for a ban.
To relate it to the things you've compared it to, it's not as if, in the states that have legalized recreational marijuana, you can smoke it without any limitations. (Still not a user. Don't let the long hair fool ya.)