Another Mass Shooting in the U.S.A.

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Message 1731484 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 13:57:28 UTC

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

The cold fact is there are over 100 million legal gun owners here(probably a lot more)who will oppose any onerous restriction of our rights to do so. Every time the Prevaricator in Chief starts his oral diarrhea threatening to ban guns, the manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and all related products smile all the way to the bank and the membership in the NRA and the community of gun owners increases.

Australian/British style gun control will never happen in the USA.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1731487 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 14:12:49 UTC - in response to Message 1731401.  

Does anyone else think that all of the first person shoot-em-up electronic games might over a long period of time desensitize a young person with a borderline sense of right and wrong to the point where life is just an extension of the game?


No, I don't think blaming video games is the scapegoat you're looking for, any more than it was movies and music 40+ years ago. These people who have a tenuous grasp of reality to begin with will find anything that further reinforces their unhealthy view of the world regardless of the medium it is delivered in.
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Message 1731488 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 14:19:13 UTC - in response to Message 1731484.  

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

I wasn't aware that non US citizens discussing the topic of gun violence in the US on an internet forum equals 'interfering with the American legislative process'.

The cold fact is there are over 100 million legal gun owners here(probably a lot more)who will oppose any onerous restriction of our rights to do so. Every time the Prevaricator in Chief starts his oral diarrhea threatening to ban guns, the manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and all related products smile all the way to the bank and the membership in the NRA and the community of gun owners increases.

Obama has never threatened or talked about taking away your guns, conservatives just keep imagining that he does. Furthermore, the number of conservatives that buys a gun doesn't actually increase, it are just the same number of people that keep running to the store to stock up on guns and ammo every time they imagine Obama is talking about taking away their guns.
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Message 1731497 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 14:36:10 UTC - in response to Message 1731400.  

You are assuming that once mentally ill people are 'cured' they stay 'cured' whereas the reality is they often go in and out of institutions. It is you who are living in fantasy land where people are either permanently cured or permanently mad.
Ah you believe in recidivism as a way of life.
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Message 1731498 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 14:36:42 UTC - in response to Message 1731472.  

And you've said several things which I strongly object to because you imply I'm in one of your demographic groups who need to be told how to run my life because I can't think for myself. Latest example? A super computer can better handle my health care than me?

Actually I said a super computer can do the job that private insurance companies or the government better than either the government or private insurance companies. Also, do you say that to your doctor?

And the law of political correctness has been introduced (still yet to be named by the internet community) a couple of times in this thread to try to shut down any real discussion. (thug? nutjob? -- really?)

Actually the only thing that shuts down a real discussion is the use of those words. Those words rely on a bunch of unspoken assumptions and stereotypes that are incorrect and rather vile. Yet they contaminate the discussion and make it about those assumptions and stereotypes, even though those things can never be found in the real world.


If gun control is about saving lives, shouldn't using the scientific method logically conclude that we need to fix some other things first?

Here's a liberal source, so it should have some weight with most of you in here: http://www.cnbc.com/2014/02/06/the-worlds-ten-leading-causes-of-death.html

If we actually used the scientific method in here, we would quickly come to the conclusion that gun control is not about saving lives, it's about centralizing power and control into the hands of the ruling class.

So only things that are in the top 10 of global causes of death should be addressed, and everything else is just about centralizing power and control? Right, that makes no sense. Furthermore, its quite possible to address multiple issues at the same time. One can address obesity and gun related deaths at the same time.

Besides, anyone who compares the gun murder rate of the US with the gun murder rate of any other industrialized country can easily see how its definitely about saving lives.
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Message 1731500 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 14:48:11 UTC
Last modified: 3 Oct 2015, 14:49:27 UTC

Looks like studies go both ways. http://time.com/34075/how-violent-video-games-change-kids-attitudes-about-aggression/ And we are not talking about all kids, just a very small percentage that go ballistic on society.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1731519 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 15:42:04 UTC - in response to Message 1731484.  

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

We feel we have a right to say something on this topic because we don't have the problem and we value all human life, even American life.

The cold fact is there are over 100 million legal gun owners here(probably a lot more)who will oppose any onerous restriction of our rights to do so. Every time the Prevaricator in Chief starts his oral diarrhea threatening to ban guns, the manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and all related products smile all the way to the bank and the membership in the NRA and the community of gun owners increases.

Australian/British style gun control will never happen in the USA.

Then innocent people will keep on dying.
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Message 1731523 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 15:56:49 UTC - in response to Message 1731454.  


Many of the perpetrators are Borderline or Anti-Social personality disorders which need DB therapy for years and the U.S. refuses to even allow Mindfulness into the public school system without a fight from the Christian base. We don't even have universal screening for BPD or ASPD in the school systems.
Medications are not the best treatment option for these conditions; behavioral modification and emotional training are the go to treatments.

If this shooter's personality flaw had been recognized earlier and he had received treatment to deal with his emotions (such as access to DBT or Mindfulness training) his victims would be alive and he'd not died a hate-filled virgin.

Unfortunately there is no way ASPD will be diagnosed in schools because it is not usually possible to diagnose it at all until the person is in their 20s. Some ASPD behaviours are very similar to normal teenage behaviour. Schizophrenia is another one that doesn't usually develop until people have left school. The same with BPD. There is no point screening for them in school.

As to mindfulness. I am not sure about it and if it has been tested enough to be implemented in schools. I know some people swear by it and some schools do indeed practice it.
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Message 1731541 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 16:49:14 UTC - in response to Message 1731488.  

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

I wasn't aware that non US citizens discussing the topic of gun violence in the US on an internet forum equals 'interfering with the American legislative process'.

Since the US "export" guns to other nations in crap movies to us non US citizens we have the RIGHT to discuss gun policy!
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Message 1731543 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 16:52:09 UTC - in response to Message 1731541.  

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

I wasn't aware that non US citizens discussing the topic of gun violence in the US on an internet forum equals 'interfering with the American legislative process'.

Since the US "export" guns to other nations in crap movies to us non US citizens we have the RIGHT to discuss gun policy!
Other nations clamor for those "imports" and pay double and triple rates for them. Can't sell if there are no buyers.
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Message 1731549 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 17:13:38 UTC - in response to Message 1731543.  
Last modified: 3 Oct 2015, 17:17:33 UTC

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

I wasn't aware that non US citizens discussing the topic of gun violence in the US on an internet forum equals 'interfering with the American legislative process'.

Since the US "export" guns to other nations in crap movies to us non US citizens we have the RIGHT to discuss gun policy!
Other nations clamor for those "imports" and pay double and triple rates for them. Can't sell if there are no buyers.

Here we pay by looking at ads 20 minutes per hour:)
Hunting season here as well.
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Message 1731560 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 17:32:33 UTC

People have asked for solutions and I came across this one making an analogy to another constitutionally protected right, and I can totally get behind this.


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Message 1731562 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 17:36:26 UTC - in response to Message 1731560.  
Last modified: 3 Oct 2015, 17:36:41 UTC

People have asked for solutions and I came across this one making an analogy to another constitutionally protected right, and I can totally get behind this.


+ something!
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Message 1731584 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 18:53:13 UTC

ES, Jan and all;

it may surprise you to hear that I and, I will venture to say, the majority of legal gun owners and sport shooters in the US would have no problem with the first paragraph of that statement up to the point of the video(which should not be a requirement of either conversation, that's another thread). We are tired of being painted by the same broad brush as the unbalanced perpetrators of these acts because we own firearms and enjoy the shooting sports.

I heard the idea of a Doctor's letter expressed yesterday by a guest on one of the 'talking heads to which we pay too much attention' programs. The same requirement would also seem appropriate for Driver's Licenses. That would help reduce the mental health proportion in both cases.

Additionally I feel an FBI background check should be performed and a permit system established for each person wishing to purchase firearms that would be good for a stated period of time, say 5 years, and require renewal after that period. This could be done in concert with a National Concealed Carry permit honored by all US States and Territories. Once instituted, a national 'Stop and Frisk' law could be enacted to allow Law Enforcement to remove unlicensed concealed firearms from Society.

This may sound like heresy coming from me but as has been said, the time has come to talk.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1731590 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 19:26:28 UTC - in response to Message 1731584.  
Last modified: 3 Oct 2015, 19:27:22 UTC

ES, Jan and all;
it may surprise you to hear that I and, I will venture to say, the majority of legal gun owners and sport shooters in the US would have no problem with the first paragraph of that statement up to the point of the video(which should not be a requirement of either conversation, that's another thread). We are tired of being painted by the same broad brush as the unbalanced perpetrators of these acts because we own firearms and enjoy the shooting sports.

Many countries have a lot guns.
The scandinavian people has a lot.
Here is some of our hunters:)
Leif GW Persson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_G._W._Persson



Magdalena Forsberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalena_Forsberg
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Message 1731594 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 19:44:58 UTC - in response to Message 1731562.  

People have asked for solutions and I came across this one making an analogy to another constitutionally protected right, and I can totally get behind this.


+ something!

Right statists are exactly like left statists. Both want to have total control over some personal aspects of all citizens lives. Frequently different aspects. Neither gets libertarians at all.

@ES99 BTW present gun checks in USA take 72 hours, not 48, so I assume you want to make it faster to buy guns.
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Message 1731595 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 19:45:55 UTC - in response to Message 1731584.  

ES, Jan and all;

it may surprise you to hear that I and, I will venture to say, the majority of legal gun owners and sport shooters in the US would have no problem with the first paragraph of that statement up to the point of the video(which should not be a requirement of either conversation, that's another thread). We are tired of being painted by the same broad brush as the unbalanced perpetrators of these acts because we own firearms and enjoy the shooting sports.

I heard the idea of a Doctor's letter expressed yesterday by a guest on one of the 'talking heads to which we pay too much attention' programs. The same requirement would also seem appropriate for Driver's Licenses. That would help reduce the mental health proportion in both cases.

Additionally I feel an FBI background check should be performed and a permit system established for each person wishing to purchase firearms that would be good for a stated period of time, say 5 years, and require renewal after that period. This could be done in concert with a National Concealed Carry permit honored by all US States and Territories. Once instituted, a national 'Stop and Frisk' law could be enacted to allow Law Enforcement to remove unlicensed concealed firearms from Society.

This may sound like heresy coming from me but as has been said, the time has come to talk.

I think that sounds sensible.
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Message 1731603 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 20:20:21 UTC - in response to Message 1731594.  

Right statists are exactly like left statists. Both want to have total control over some personal aspects of all citizens lives. Frequently different aspects. Neither gets libertarians at all.

@ES99 BTW present gun checks in USA take 72 hours, not 48, so I assume you want to make it faster to buy guns.

Except (in most states) at gun shows, where no check is made so the wait is the time it takes to process payment.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1731653 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 23:16:44 UTC

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Message 1731663 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015, 23:51:32 UTC - in response to Message 1731484.  

It still amazes me how posters in Europe, Australia, Canada and other non-USA citizens feel they actually have a say in what laws are passed here. It isn't your country, it belongs to the citizens of the USA and those citizens will make our own way in the world without outside interference. We don't advocate changing laws in your country unless it affects the USA. Why do you feel the need to interfere in our legislative process?

Really? You think the non-US citizens posting here feel the way you describe? Couldn't be anything else, could it?

The cold fact is there are over 100 million legal gun owners here(probably a lot more)who will oppose any onerous restriction of our rights to do so. Every time the Prevaricator in Chief starts his oral diarrhea threatening to ban guns, the manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and all related products smile all the way to the bank and the membership in the NRA and the community of gun owners increases.

Australian/British style gun control will never happen in the USA.

Quite
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message boards : Politics : Another Mass Shooting in the U.S.A.


 
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