Term Limits

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Message 1732200 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 3:36:27 UTC

What Experience One Needs to Lie, Cheat, Steal and Otherwise Muck Up Da Lives of Everyone?

And Why Would More of This Experience, through Gaining Much MORE of This Experience in Office, be More Advantageous to The People You Fooked Over for Years Years and Years, Be Better For The Peoples Experience in Livin' Day to Day?

It is So Easy To 'Experience' The People Into ShatDom.

Life Sucks, why 'Experience' 'It' Into More of SuckWorld?

Huh?

yep, Yup, fO shO

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1732202 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 3:43:21 UTC - in response to Message 1732186.  


No, I want to know, what is it intended to fix. I mean, if you advocate for term limits it means that having people constantly run for office somehow causes a problem, what is that problem? Or is the fact that people keep voting for the same guy the problem? If so, why is that a problem.


A rather strict term limit will fix one problem... That of the 'career politician' and its consequent corruption.

I have frequently advocated for a strict term limit of one term in one office (elected or appointed)... once...

Serve one term in one office, then after serving your city/county/state/country you go back home and go back to work at your *REAL JOB*.

In our country it would be ment that we wouldn't have any politicians.
Or at least only a handful.
Our politicians dont know what a *REAL JOB* is:)

Actually our prime minister does and the leader of the left party.
The others...


The perfect case in point for what strict term limits will fix...

Dallas County Commissioner John Wiley Price. Indicted on 11 Federal felony counts involving corruption.

If convicted on all 11 counts he could receive 139 years in prison and I think a US$1.4 million fine.


The case is about a year old.

I think his trial starts in January. But two of his associates also charged have pleaded guilty and are going to testify against him.

http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/john-wiley-price-breakdown/

*THIS* sort of schizz is what strict term limits will help to prevent.
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Message 1732212 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 4:32:49 UTC - in response to Message 1732202.  


No, I want to know, what is it intended to fix. I mean, if you advocate for term limits it means that having people constantly run for office somehow causes a problem, what is that problem? Or is the fact that people keep voting for the same guy the problem? If so, why is that a problem.


A rather strict term limit will fix one problem... That of the 'career politician' and its consequent corruption.

I have frequently advocated for a strict term limit of one term in one office (elected or appointed)... once...

Serve one term in one office, then after serving your city/county/state/country you go back home and go back to work at your *REAL JOB*.

In our country it would be ment that we wouldn't have any politicians.
Or at least only a handful.
Our politicians dont know what a *REAL JOB* is:)

Actually our prime minister does and the leader of the left party.
The others...


The perfect case in point for what strict term limits will fix...

Dallas County Commissioner John Wiley Price. Indicted on 11 Federal felony counts involving corruption.

If convicted on all 11 counts he could receive 139 years in prison and I think a US$1.4 million fine.


The case is about a year old.

I think his trial starts in January. But two of his associates also charged have pleaded guilty and are going to testify against him.

http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/john-wiley-price-breakdown/

*THIS* sort of schizz is what strict term limits will help to prevent.

But it doesn't stop civil service "schizz" such as http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20141230/pasadena-ex-employee-suspected-of-stealing-6m-in-city-funds-scandal-larger-than-bell-case
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Message 1732218 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 4:41:43 UTC - in response to Message 1732198.  
Last modified: 6 Oct 2015, 4:42:14 UTC


No, I want to know, what is it intended to fix. I mean, if you advocate for term limits it means that having people constantly run for office somehow causes a problem, what is that problem? Or is the fact that people keep voting for the same guy the problem? If so, why is that a problem.

A rather strict term limit will fix one problem... That of the 'career politician' and its consequent corruption.
I have frequently advocated for a strict term limit of one term in one office (elected or appointed)... once...
Serve one term in one office, then after serving your city/county/state/country you go back home and go back to work at your *REAL JOB*.

In our country it would be ment that we wouldn't have any politicians.
Or at least only a handful.
Our politicians dont know what a *REAL JOB* is:)
Actually our prime minister does and the leader of the left party.
The others...

Kong and Janne make good points.
Don't we have some Representatives or Senators that have been in D.C. since their teens? Anybody ever visit Washington D.C. and here about the "page" program? Anyone that served as a page or in anyway as an assistant to a Senator or Representative and then ran for office themselves ... how can they do a good job at listening to the people if they've been away from the main body of the people for so long?
(If this isn't clear to most but someone else understands, please clarify? I've been pretty exhausted most times this past week or so.)

But thats sounds like our Europian members of parlaiment.
The only time some of them are in Brussels is to sign their name on friday afternoon in order to get their paycheck!
Yes. They even take a flight and want us to pay for it!
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Message 1732220 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 4:55:16 UTC - in response to Message 1732202.  
Last modified: 6 Oct 2015, 5:17:10 UTC


No, I want to know, what is it intended to fix. I mean, if you advocate for term limits it means that having people constantly run for office somehow causes a problem, what is that problem? Or is the fact that people keep voting for the same guy the problem? If so, why is that a problem.

A rather strict term limit will fix one problem... That of the 'career politician' and its consequent corruption.
I have frequently advocated for a strict term limit of one term in one office (elected or appointed)... once...
Serve one term in one office, then after serving your city/county/state/country you go back home and go back to work at your *REAL JOB*.

In our country it would be ment that we wouldn't have any politicians.
Or at least only a handful.
Our politicians dont know what a *REAL JOB* is:)
Actually our prime minister does and the leader of the left party.
The others...

The perfect case in point for what strict term limits will fix...
Dallas County Commissioner John Wiley Price. Indicted on 11 Federal felony counts involving corruption.
If convicted on all 11 counts he could receive 139 years in prison and I think a US$1.4 million fine.
The case is about a year old.
I think his trial starts in January. But two of his associates also charged have pleaded guilty and are going to testify against him.
http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/john-wiley-price-breakdown/
*THIS* sort of schizz is what strict term limits will help to prevent.

Strict term limits?
I think that would be useless in Europe.
Definitly not in Scandinavia.
On the other hand.
Berlousconi in Italy...
Perhaps some other guy...

Oh dear.
I forgot Putin:)
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Message 1732261 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 8:08:21 UTC - in response to Message 1732185.  

A rather strict term limit will fix one problem... That of the 'career politician' and its consequent corruption.

Right, from all the politicians that serve the country for decades only a handful turns to corruption. But by all means, lets restrict everyone from doing their job just because a few suck at it. This is as stupid as those voter ID laws, they only fix imaginary problems. And in this case, its not even a good one as people who just got elected can become corrupt just the same as someone who already served 5 terms.

And you are ignoring the benefits of having career politicians. They get a lot of experience, which makes them simply better at their job. You are denying yourself experienced politicians who understand how the system works, who understand how policy making works, who may have created a valuable international network of contacts allowing them to be excellent diplomats, just because *some* politicians feel the urge to start stealing. A perfect example of a cure that does more damage than the disease.

Finally, do you hate freedom? No? Then why are you trying to restrict peoples freedom, one of their most important freedoms, namely the freedom to elect the politician of their choice? Or are you saying people are to stupid to recognize an incompetent politician?

Let me get this straight, you are in favor of electing judges and you are fine with a judge serving his term creating one miscarriage of justice after another, but if a politician takes a bribe or gives a government contract to his brother, now seriously thats such a problem that politicians should only be allowed to serve one term once.

Serve one term in one office, then after serving your city/county/state/country you go back home and go back to work at your *REAL JOB*.

Oh, so running one of the most powerful countries in the world isn't a 'real job'?
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Message 1732341 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 15:35:55 UTC - in response to Message 1732290.  

[sarcasm]

Ya, only a few of them are corrupt. And since they are so smart, they shouldn't have to deal with the inefficiency of a representative system. And since they are so smart, they should automatically be exempt from the laws they enact because most of them would only decree laws that help the people. And once we get a smart one at the top, he/she should be able to start picking who's going to follow them after they retire/die. After all, they were basically chosen by God and are taking advice from God. Maybe they should start wearing a crown with jewels in it so they can be recognized when they go out in public so the people know when to show respect and bow in their presence. And since they only take advice from God, they should be able to dole out immediate rewards and punishment. Show allegiance and get land, show disrespect and have your head lopped off.

Sounds like good fundamental change to me. Let's do it.

[/sarcasm]

Right, because it totally follows from me saying not all of them are corrupt (prove me wrong) they should therefor be treated like kings. Of course not. But instituting term limits to deal with 'corruption' is inventing a solution for an imaginary problem, and its a bad solution at that as well.

And what happened to you freedom warriors, complaining about how even the slightest background check for guns infringes on peoples freedom and will inevitably result in tyranny, but you guys are completely fine with limiting peoples choice on who they can vote for during elections? The most important freedom in a democratic system, voting for whoever you like, is the freedom you want to restrict?
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Message 1732372 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 21:52:00 UTC - in response to Message 1732365.  

Our current ruling class is out of control. Has been for a couple of decades now. The problem is not imaginary. It's quite obvious everywhere you look. The list of changes because of light and transient causes are becoming too numerous to list. The left and most of our press are just ignoring this very real problem. But they are not prosecuted because they are the prosecutors. The reason our country is becoming lawless is because our ruling class has become lawless.

Our country was created to be run by our citizens. Our constitution can be read in is entirety in one sitting. It is written so the majority of citizens can read and understand it. But the left and the press say only smart people can understand it now and many people, such as you, believe them. It's in plain English. Anybody can understand it but it seems like most are not reading it any more.

Tyranny is happening before our very eyes. They have been governing with out the consent of the governed with greater and greater tenacity. Our founders predicted this. Our founders were worried the citizens would become stupid and ignore the principles in our constitution and they were right.

The right to bear arms here in the U.S. was to give us a last chance check on tyranny. It hasn't gotten bad enough to invoke that extreme measure and hopefully it never reaches that point. The left wants to remove that last check so they can become even more brazen about seizing all power and control away from the people. It won't happen soon. Too many people like me still here.

We do not limit who can vote. We allow anybody who shows up at the poll to vote. The left likes it that way. When people breach our borders, they can vote for free stuff and then get it. When the right says we are going bankrupt, the left laughs. It's not funny.

Our government is broken. The minority is in charge. Our judicial branch has gone rogue. The left is spending us into bankruptcy. The left is becoming more brazen about destroying this country.

But it looks like the people are starting to wake up. Many of us are getting desperate to try anything to fix it before it's too late. Term limits would be a good start. It was good enough to enact after FDR, it would be a good thing to enact on our congress and our judicial branch. We need more citizen representatives, more citizen presidents, and less life-time judges.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

...just as relevant today as it was 239 years ago.


Without the details at the moment, this lacks nuance (something Clyde just referred to in another thread).
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Message 1732384 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 22:17:08 UTC - in response to Message 1732365.  

When people breach our borders, they can vote for free stuff and then get it.

Brutus please cite specific examples otherwise this is just an unfounded opinion.
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Message 1732388 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 22:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 1732365.  
Last modified: 6 Oct 2015, 22:40:13 UTC

@Sarge. You forgot to highlight this from the US Constitution:
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and happiness.


Our law from 1280 AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4stg%C3%B6talagen
"Äldre VŠästgšötalagen ... confirms the right of the people to elect or depose the Swedish king and also stipulates that the king must be accepted by the (lawman, law-speaker) at the (parliament or assembly)"
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Message 1732402 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 23:05:26 UTC - in response to Message 1732388.  

@Sarge. You forgot to highlight this from the US Constitution:
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and happiness.
Wrong document Janne
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Message 1732409 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 23:22:37 UTC - in response to Message 1732402.  
Last modified: 7 Oct 2015, 0:06:29 UTC

@Sarge. You forgot to highlight this from the US Constitution:
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and happiness.
Wrong document Janne

Is it?
Does Thomas Jefferson and The Declaration of Independence ring a bell?
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
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Message 1732413 - Posted: 6 Oct 2015, 23:28:31 UTC - in response to Message 1732384.  

When people breach our borders, they can vote for free stuff and then get it.

Brutus please cite specific examples otherwise this is just an unfounded opinion.


Well, betreger, specific examples are problematic to obtain, but here is a study on the matter for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379414000973

The study is behind a paywall, but here is a newspaper summary.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/24/could-non-citizens-decide-the-november-election/

Key point:

Our best guess, based upon extrapolations from the portion of the sample with a verified vote, is that 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010.


If correct, that is enough non-citizens voting to have significantly changed the outcome of a number of races having widespread effects on legislation passed.

For instance Sen. Franken (D-Minn.) won election by 312 votes. Franken's election made the US Senate filibuster-proof for the Democrats. This enabled the passage of the ACA, among other legislative priorities of the Obama Administration.

It is even possible that Obama himself owes his election to these illegal non-citizen votes.
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Message 1732424 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015, 0:52:10 UTC - in response to Message 1732409.  

@Sarge. You forgot to highlight this from the US Constitution:
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and happiness.
Wrong document Janne

Is it?
Does Thomas Jefferson and The Declaration of Independence ring a bell?
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Declaration of Independence != US Constitution.
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Message 1732443 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015, 2:59:14 UTC - in response to Message 1732424.  

@Sarge. You forgot to highlight this from the US Constitution:
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and happiness.
Wrong document Janne

Is it?
Does Thomas Jefferson and The Declaration of Independence ring a bell?
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Declaration of Independence != US Constitution.


Note to Janne: != is also represented by <>.
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Message 1732447 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015, 3:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 1732446.  

The Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution are inextricably linked. The Declaration of Independence provides morale authority for the U.S. Constitution.
Ah, what happened to the Articles of Confederation? Did you forget them and everything between 1776 and 1787? (They are rather forgettable considering how well they worked. But we have people who advocate for their re-adoption.)
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Message 1732451 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015, 3:50:30 UTC - in response to Message 1732446.  
Last modified: 7 Oct 2015, 3:51:30 UTC

The Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution are inextricably linked. The Declaration of Independence provides morale authority for the U.S. Constitution.

(Thanks Kong, you answered it before I got back from my class.)

(Come to think of it, I may not have bothered to answer it. It's time for some of these people in here to do their own homework.)

How condescending. You make statements and provide no proof and blame people who don't know how you come up with your conclusions. Generally you do better than that.
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