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Message 1735568 - Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 1:49:48 UTC - in response to Message 1735524.  
Last modified: 20 Oct 2015, 1:49:48 UTC

Do I understand that Marmot desires to ask me some questions?

At your service.


Just about everybody does, regardless of where they stand.
What brought you to these conclusions?
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Message 1735682 - Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 12:08:24 UTC
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What conclusions? It does not seem to me that I an very much out of line with the majority of the other posters on this thread. I will be happy answer specific questions.
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Message 1735683 - Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 12:13:28 UTC - in response to Message 1735682.  
Last modified: 20 Oct 2015, 12:13:28 UTC

Maybe this will answer some of them.

Infinity.
A Fable by David L. Nelson

Two beings, unknown too each other, sat on a bench on planet Earth, each in deep thought. For hours in silence they thought. Then one broke the silence. Why is there something rather than nothing he asked? I think, she replied that we will never know the answer to that question. They parted, never too meet again.

Billions of years passed. The Sun became a red giant and vaporized the Earth, went super nova and destroyed the solar system. The Milky Way evaporated. The Universe took no notice.

In a trillion years or so, in a galaxy very much like the Milky Way, out of a huge cloud of dust, perhaps containing some molecules from the old Milky Way, a new solar system formed. Under the force of gravity the cloud collapsed and a new star came into being. Wisps of dust that escaped the initial collapse took up orbits around the star and evolved into planets. On one of these, perhaps the third from the star, the laws of nature allowed evolution, guided by natural selection, to bring forth life. In time this life evolved into an intelligent species.

And two beings, unknown too each other, sat on a bench···
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Message 1735708 - Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 14:55:24 UTC - in response to Message 1735694.  
Last modified: 20 Oct 2015, 14:55:24 UTC

"Why would 'The Apostles' lie about His statements:"

Suppose the apostles were fictional characters, as I believe them to be.
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Message 1735749 - Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 21:42:28 UTC - in response to Message 1735708.  

"Why would 'The Apostles' lie about His statements:"

Suppose the apostles were fictional characters, as I believe them to be.

That is what the evidence suggests. For a much broader answer to Clyde's questions, I would need a lot of time to compile that, and I just don't have the time now. What I will do at some point, is release a timeline if what happened, and when, being as factually accurate as possible, but this will take me weeks to prepare, as I have to re-read many things, extracting and footnoting information as I go.

This is certainly not an easy task, so I may not be ready for quite a while, especially given my current time availability.

For more accurate answers, I have already posted some of the books I have used, in different threads. The information is there. Check any of the books from Bart Erman, or the book No Meek Messiah. Also Zealot that ES99 recommended.

There are more, but the bulk of the information is contained there. Actual scripture quotes, timelines, and historical references are all included. What I need to do in order to answer the questions correctly, is a full book report on all those books, rather than posting tidbits from time to time, but then again, time is the problem.

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Message 1735823 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 2:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 1735682.  

What conclusions? It does not seem to me that I an very much out of line with the majority of the other posters on this thread. I will be happy answer specific questions.


Come now. Surely you remember things you post within 1 or 2 says that are specific statements.

Religion is a mental disease.
Many educated,intelligent people believe in religion.
Many educated,intelligent people are mentally ill.
They are afflicted with the SWI syndrome.
Selective Willful Ignorance.
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Message 1735825 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 2:21:17 UTC - in response to Message 1735683.  

Maybe this will answer some of them.

Infinity.
A Fable by David L. Nelson

Two beings, unknown too each other, sat on a bench on planet Earth, each in deep thought. For hours in silence they thought. Then one broke the silence. Why is there something rather than nothing he asked? I think, she replied that we will never know the answer to that question. They parted, never too meet again.

Billions of years passed. The Sun became a red giant and vaporized the Earth, went super nova and destroyed the solar system. The Milky Way evaporated. The Universe took no notice.

In a trillion years or so, in a galaxy very much like the Milky Way, out of a huge cloud of dust, perhaps containing some molecules from the old Milky Way, a new solar system formed. Under the force of gravity the cloud collapsed and a new star came into being. Wisps of dust that escaped the initial collapse took up orbits around the star and evolved into planets. On one of these, perhaps the third from the star, the laws of nature allowed evolution, guided by natural selection, to bring forth life. In time this life evolved into an intelligent species.

And two beings, unknown too each other, sat on a bench···


Having now posted that about 3 times, though several days apart, your behavior borders on ... .
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Message 1735838 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 2:45:21 UTC - in response to Message 1735408.  

Religion is a mental disease.
Many educated,intelligent people believe in religion.
Many educated,intelligent people are mentally ill.
They are afflicted with the SWI syndrome.
Selective Willful Ignorance.

Correct.

The same as Secular Marxism.

I am using Einstein's definition of insanity.


Sigh.
As Einstein did not study the mind, this quote (or purported quote) may very well not be a good one to keep quoting. What it describes is neuroses, which pales in comparison to the mental illness Wayne La Pierre mentioned after Sandy Hook yet apparently has never really spear-headed a conversation about since.

And what "Admiral Dave" refers to falls short of mental illness as well.
It has been demonstrated people can hold two conflicting ideas at the same time within their minds. We know that acceleration due to gravity is a constant (and that in most cases something like air resistance will make little difference). Despite this, ask a lot of people and they'll say a bowling ball, dropped from the same height as a baseball, will hit the ground first. I believe it was Howard Gardner and Emma Laskin that analyzed/discussed this at great length. Not once did they call it a "mental illness", but a conflict of the educated mind with the "five year old mind" within the same person.

Quit throwing the term "mental illness" around so blithely,
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Message 1735931 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 13:06:45 UTC - in response to Message 1735825.  

Sagre;

Twice. You reposted it once.

I,m embarressed. I apologise.
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Message 1735934 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 13:08:51 UTC - in response to Message 1735931.  

Sagre;

Twice. You reposted it once.

I,m embarressed. I apologise.


I further apologise for min-spelling your name.
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Message 1735935 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 13:11:03 UTC - in response to Message 1735934.  

Sagre;

Twice. You reposted it once.

I,m embarressed. I apologise.


I further apologise for min-spelling your name.


and for mis-spelling mis-spelling.
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Message 1735941 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 13:35:20 UTC - in response to Message 1735838.  

And what "Admiral Dave" refers to falls short of mental illness as well.
It has been demonstrated people can hold two conflicting ideas at the same time within their minds. We know that acceleration due to gravity is a constant (and that in most cases something like air resistance will make little difference). Despite this, ask a lot of people and they'll say a bowling ball, dropped from the same height as a baseball, will hit the ground first.

Guess a lot of people weren't alive when a feather and hammer were dropped on the moon. That or it shows how dangerous religion is and why it needs a universal ban.
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Message 1735954 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 14:22:40 UTC

"Having now posted that about 3 times, though several days apart, your behavior borders on ... ."

On what Sarge?
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Message 1735963 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 15:38:33 UTC - in response to Message 1735951.  

Apparently Gary and AD are 'two peas, in the same pod'.

:) :) :)

Why don't you join us Clyde? There's room.
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Message 1735986 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 17:11:34 UTC - in response to Message 1735969.  

Apparently Gary and AD are 'two peas, in the same pod'.

:) :) :)

Why don't you join us Clyde? There's room.

Back to this Important Subject, an Intelligent Poster, and ignoring the 'Silly Ones':

Steve...

If you have time, and wish to.

Could you reference more books that relate to the existence, or non-existence of Jesus, and His Apostles.

Not only for me. But for others, who may be interested.

A Google Search doesn't inform which ones we can take seriously.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061778192?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061173940?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_3&s=books&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060859512?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_4&s=books&sr=1-4

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062285203?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_5&s=books&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062012622?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_6&s=books&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062206443?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_7&s=books&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195182499?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_8&s=books&sr=1-8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061173924?keywords=bart%20ehrman&qid=1445447155&ref_=sr_1_9&s=books&sr=1-9

Bart Ehrman has a PHD in theology, and has done a ton of research. He even learned the ancient Greek language, and has read all of the original texts, or at least as far as intact copies exist.

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Message 1736000 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 18:00:02 UTC

It was and always will be, that religions don't like those who try to find out and use the original texts, look up John Wycliffe.

His translation, the first into English from the oldest "original" he could find the Latin Vulgate, so incensed the Popes that even after he had been dead and buried for years, one of them ordered his bones be dug up, crushed and dispersed in the river.
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Message 1736009 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 18:42:49 UTC - in response to Message 1736000.  
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It was and always will be, that religions don't like those who try to find out and use the original texts, look up John Wycliffe.

His translation, the first into English from the oldest "original" he could find the Latin Vulgate, so incensed the Popes that even after he had been dead and buried for years, one of them ordered his bones be dug up, crushed and dispersed in the river.

Think of the ramifications, if the entire public knew all the things as they really are, there would be no Christianity, no tax shelters, and countless religious figures would lose their livelihood. Political decisions would no longer be tied to complete nonsense. (I guess they would come up with some other nonsense to justify their wishes.)

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Message 1736016 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 19:29:00 UTC
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http://helios.augustana.edu/~ew/des/illustrated-articles/su21.html

In October 1510 Luther, the pious monk, arose from his bunk at the Augustinian monastery in Erfurt, located in central Germany, and prepared himself for a journey of 850 miles south on foot to the eternal city of Rome.


http://www.answers.com/Q/What_did_Martin_Luther_witness_in_Rome_that_upset_him

Some of the Italian clergy however were flippantly unbelieving and would address the sacrament saying "Bread thou art and bread thou wilt remain." To a devout believer from the unsophisticated Northland such disclosures were truly shocking.


If true, one wonders:

1) Were they just jerks, but believers?
2) Or, were they non-believers? If so, why were they priests? What did they know (if anything) that they weren't telling the followers?!?
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Message 1736021 - Posted: 21 Oct 2015, 19:50:29 UTC - in response to Message 1736016.  
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http://helios.augustana.edu/~ew/des/illustrated-articles/su21.html

In October 1510 Luther, the pious monk, arose from his bunk at the Augustinian monastery in Erfurt, located in central Germany, and prepared himself for a journey of 850 miles south on foot to the eternal city of Rome.


http://www.answers.com/Q/What_did_Martin_Luther_witness_in_Rome_that_upset_him

Some of the Italian clergy however were flippantly unbelieving and would address the sacrament saying "Bread thou art and bread thou wilt remain." To a devout believer from the unsophisticated Northland such disclosures were truly shocking.


If true, one wonders:

1) Were they just jerks, but believers?
2) Or, were they non-believers? If so, why were they priests? What did they know (if anything) that they weren't telling the followers?!?

For I think over 200 years, the public wasn't aloud to read the scriptures, as they were so full of holes, that a 10 year old could see through them. It was only much later, after many changes and the convention of keeping this as orthodox, and discarding that as heresy, would they make the scriptures available for some of the public to read. For the most part, they were intentionally deceived, and that is still true today.

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