The existence of god is a logical impossibility.

maybe...

but, lets look @ it logically...with science only:
- if our Universe came out of SOMETHING & no scientist can argue that Universe came from nothing!
- if there was some initial energy 4 Universe 2 form...where did it came from? was it d Designer, God, Sabaoth, Budha or some higher Being?
- & how come Universe was made just so, that it can form stars, transfer light, that gravity controls it?
- & how come matter overcame d anti-matter? was it an influence of some1 or just natural thing?

so it's only logical 2 have some higher Being as a Designer!
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

- & how come matter overcame d anti-matter? was it an influence of some1 or just natural thing?

My understanding of the matter - anti matter question is that it has no differance on which one won out. The universe would still look and feel the same.
And scientists have stated that even if we looked at another galaxy composed of anti matter we could not tell. Untill we of matter tried to enter it.

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Old James

It's all about equillibrium in my eyes. It seems like everything in our universe is perfectly balanced to be able to exist. I often wonder if there would indeed be a multiverse and if other universes would be perfectly balanced as well.

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rOZZ
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As a non-entity, science cannot be arrogant.
At best, we can have arrogant scientists.

I would disagree. Science, even as a non entity pretends to be an authority when it comes to 'truth'. Just saying that you do something for the sake of science already implies that you are in some sort of pursuit of truth. I have to question its authority and its ability to discover the truth.

As I stated years ago, no, not all things can be known. Not in mathematics and therefore, not in science either. There will always be something to discover.

That shows that its practically not possible to know everything, but thats not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the pretension that science will know everything, or at least that it will continue working until it knows everything (even if that is practically impossible). It is the assumption that science will either know or at some point find the answer to every question ever asked. Thats arrogance.

Your suggestion of what happens when faith is removed is false. I've heard statements from a number of atheists that they believe, since they have no evidence of an afterlife, that they must make this life on Earth the best they possibly can (often by helping others).

That is because no one on the planet is 100% rational all the time. Everyone holds some irrational viewpoints, and most people are even completely blind to the fact that some of their viewpoints are irrational.

In any case, if people where completely rational, led by science all the time, they would know that we don't have such a thing as free will. Free will is a metaphysical idea, and unlike God there actually exists a ton of evidence that suggests its also not true. So, the logical response is to accept the evidence and accept that everything you do is just part of some very complex string of causes and effects. Hence, you become a fatalist. Science has also clearly shown our position in the universe, one of utter irrelevance. Nothing we do matters in the grand scheme of things, we aren't special nor are we everlasting. The sun could blow up tomorrow, killing us all and the universe would just keep on going. Therefor, the rational thing is to accept these facts and become a nihilist.

I have all the respect for people who don't believe in God and use their lack of faith as a motivation to improve the life of as many other people as possible, but that response is not rational.

I will assume it is simply lack of knowledge that made you say something false, rather than intentional distortion or flat out lying.

Research on prayer.

Research on near death experiences.

Weight of the soul?.

All three of these come too close to your metaphysical, which you claim scientists would run screaming from and continue to run for miles. I have provided evidence to the contrary.

The problem here is twofold. First is that as you said, these things approach the metaphysical, but the way they are studied in each of those studies they are firmly grounded in the physical. The effect of prayer is evaluated by the clearly measurable effects it has on a person. Near death experience studies focus on what happens in the brain at the moment they happen (and for that matter, I don't actually think near death experiences are all that metaphysical). The weight of the soul thing, aside from not being all that scientific, it again focused based around measuring something physical, namely a persons weight.

That leads to the second problem, namely that these studies ultimately don't prove anything. Does the soul weighting study show that souls exist? No, the guy only supposedly discovered that people lose a few grams of weight directly after they die and then he claimed that it was because the soul left the body. But a soul is impossible to prove to not exist. Its an unfalsifiable concept. The same goes for the true effect of prayer. Even if it does not help a person recover, it doesn't mean God doesn't exist nor that he doesn't listen. It just shows that prayer didn't make a person get better quicker. And the existence of near death experiences themselves have never been disputed, only their meaning. Does it really mean there is an after life or is it just the product of the mind no longer getting oxygen. We can't say because the only people who can truly confirm whether there is an afterlife or not are the people that die and don't come back.

How convenient.

Well, can you say you truly comprehend a being that is all powerful? Can you comprehend the meaning of all powerfulness? So far people haven't because they get stuck on silly paradoxes.

NOBODY ON EARTH CAN PROVE THAT THERE IS A GOD.

NOBODY ON EARTH CAN PROVE THAT THERE ISN'T A GOD.

Sigh, back to the drawing board that is..

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rOZZ
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That is because no one on the planet is 100% rational all the time. Everyone holds some irrational viewpoints, and most people are even completely blind to the fact that some of their viewpoints are irrational.

Well, that just about sums up Seti politics for you!

We can't say because the only people who can truly confirm whether there is an afterlife or not are the people that die and don't come back.

Ah, but Jesus apparently did come back. if you believe the bible that is.

NOBODY ON EARTH CAN PROVE THAT THERE IS A GOD.

NOBODY ON EARTH CAN PROVE THAT THERE ISN'T A GOD.

So why are we bothering having this discussion about simply personal beliefs? Which is what religion is all about anyway, oh and brainwashing by ones upbringing or environment.

lets quote 1 of d greatest minds living:
"Thus it seems Einstein was doubly wrong when he said, God does not play dice. Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen."
by S. Hawking

So math has proven that d God exist...logically it must, bc there has 2 B some1 2 "play dice"!

also, here's some light read: http://www.amazon.com/Does-Play-Dice-Mathematics-Chaos/dp/0631232516
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

A question .....

Why did God make us when the all knowing and all seeing God , would have seen man destroy himself as we are lead to believe in the Bible ?

Science is our best guess ...., religion is distorted lie's and power not God .

And so powerful that if enough ppl believe in a prophecy the they subconsciously make it happen and religion does brain wash ppl

There is knowledge in the Bible but there is allso Lie's .

I herd a story that the King James version of the Bible was copied from Greek scrolls that where turn 'd into books that the authors used to make the King James Bible

These Greek schoolers where Aramaic and had a wicked cents of humour when it came to translating the original Hebrew scrolls into Greek .

as in the "X" Files the truth is out there , you only have open your eyes and ears

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Lets refrain from d malignant speech towards religion, please!

in my country it's a habit that:
1. religion is every individual a FREE choice!
2. as a FREE expression of every individual it's, also protected by extent of Law & Constitution!

d topic is:
is there a God / Higher Being / Designer ?
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Lets refrain from d malignant speech towards religion, please!

in my country it's a habit that:
1. religion is every individual a FREE choice!
2. as a FREE expression of every individual it's, also protected by extent of Law & Constitution!

d topic is:
is there a God / Higher Being / Designer ?
;)

ok

A question .....

Why did God make us when the all knowing and all seeing God , would have seen man destroy himself as we are lead to believe in the Bible ?

If there is a Designer then the above question is valid as the Bible is used to validate God as a God or Designer so if the Bible is filled with lie's then there can be no god unless you say Science is correct

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lets quote 1 of d greatest minds living:
"Thus it seems Einstein was doubly wrong when he said, God does not play dice. Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen."
by S. Hawking

So math has proven that d God exist...logically it must, bc there has 2 B some1 2 "play dice"!

also, here's some light read: http://www.amazon.com/Does-Play-Dice-Mathematics-Chaos/dp/0631232516
;)

Niels Bohr said "Stop telling God what to do with his dice" :)

And this.

The fact that religions through the ages have spoken in images, parables, and paradoxes means simply that there are no other ways of grasping the reality to which they refer. But that does not mean that it is not a genuine reality.

Some subjects are so serious that one can only joke about them.

Spirituality and the spirit world - halfway house from life until true death? Who knows. Same as God, no evidence one way or the other.

True. Makes one want to have nothing to do with the spiritual world *wrings hands*

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rOZZ
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This is weird.
Sworn testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sworn_testimony
What have God with civil justice to do?

Here is a story that Niels Bohr liked very much.

In an isolated village there was a small Jewish community.
A famous rabbi once came to the neighboring city to speak and, as the people in the village were eager to learn what the great teacher would say, they sent a young man to listen.
When he returned he said, "The rabbi spoke three times. The first talk was brilliant; clear and simple. I understood every word. The second was even better; deep and subtle. I didn't understand much, but the rabbi understood all of it. The third was by far the finest; a great and unforgettable experience. I understand nothing, and the rabbi himself didn't understand much either".

Some scientists behave like the rabbi.

Here is a story that Niels Bohr liked very much.

In an isolated village there was a small Jewish community.
A famous rabbi once came to the neighboring city to speak and, as the people in the village were eager to learn what the great teacher would say, they sent a young man to listen.
When he returned he said, "The rabbi spoke three times. The first talk was brilliant; clear and simple. I understood every word. The second was even better; deep and subtle. I didn't understand much, but the rabbi understood all of it. The third was by far the finest; a great and unforgettable experience. I understand nothing, and the rabbi himself didn't understand much either".

Some scientists behave like the rabbi.

I like that story Janne, thank you for sharing.

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rOZZ
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Here is a story that Niels Bohr liked very much.

In an isolated village there was a small Jewish community.
A famous rabbi once came to the neighboring city to speak and, as the people in the village were eager to learn what the great teacher would say, they sent a young man to listen.
When he returned he said, "The rabbi spoke three times. The first talk was brilliant; clear and simple. I understood every word. The second was even better; deep and subtle. I didn't understand much, but the rabbi understood all of it. The third was by far the finest; a great and unforgettable experience. I understand nothing, and the rabbi himself didn't understand much either".

Some scientists behave like the rabbi.

I like that story Janne, thank you for sharing.

Thank Niels. He started his career as a philosopher:)
How about that?

Is it a true story or just folklore?

Does it matter?

Why matters?
Who matters?
When matters?
Where matters?
How matters?
What matters?

Does it matter? Where does it appear in the wave equation?

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To quote Simon and Garfunkle, from 'The Boxer'..........

I am just a poor boy
though my story's seldom told,
I have squandered my resistance
for a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises.
All lies and jests.
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
and disregards the rest.

The last line sums religion up the best.
One believes either what he has been taught to believe or what he has come to believe through his life's experiences.

That being said,
I believe very much in God.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster