This thread has wandered a bit from the original intention.

So if someone wishes to start a thread about different countries healthcare systems it might be more appropriate.

Also perhaps posters with a negative viewpoint could please rather than rubbishing a country, come up with ways to improve said system, rather than just saying it and therefor the country is rubbish.

Also as has been stated first hand experience of that countries health care system and constructive comment will be better accepted than a slanging match.

Remember no country is perfect.

Thank you.

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Thank you Bernie. The closing will be up to the Mods or Op.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

Big Pharmaceutical companies are MULTINATIONAL.
And some say here that non US citizens should not critize US companies!
For heavens sake. Wake up!

There are millions of taxpayers from all over the world that pay greedy companies in the US!

Both I and my GF pays a lot of money to buy medicin from the US.

Behave!

@Uli who said "So, if you haven't used the healthcare system PERSONALLY, don't knock it".
Then politicians should not be allowed to discuss healtcare systems!
But dont all know somone who has been mistreated?

greedy companies in the US!

Please define greedy and give examples, also I assume you are saying that only US pharmaceutical companies are greedy?

I personally do not know anyone who has been mistreated by the US health service, quite the reverse.

So please lets get a little perspective.

Thank you.

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greedy companies in the US!

Please define greedy and give examples, also I assume you are saying that only US pharmaceutical companies are greedy?

I personally do not know anyone who has been mistreated by the US health service, quite the reverse.

So please lets get a little perspective.

Thank you.

Please dont assume.
Read what I wrote!

Some swedish stats.
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nepi.net%2F131127-Hur-vanligt-aer-det-med-laekemedelsskador.htm&edit-text=

Shareholders goal is to earn money.

the free market tends to operate in two modes
competition to set a fair market value, and what the market can bear.

the form what the market can bear requires a monopoly, a near monopoly
or collusion.

the merger of so many companies over the last 20 years has reached the point
that near monopoly is basically a fact.

India ignored the us patents for aids drugs because the licensing would have cost over 1800 dollars per patient per month the Indian pharmaceutical company
provide this medication to patients for about 1.80 and still make a very modest

also http://www.aravind.org/ now make the lenses for cataract for 2 dollars
a pair the real cost of just barely making a profit.

there is no market pressure or incentive for drug company to compete driving
the prices down to fair market value.
and the us government has failed to lead medical research in directions that
will promote cures lowered cost and a general increase in wellness.

this can be traced back to president reagan who stop a large part of government grants for pure research.

the pharmaceutical companies were only to happy to pick up the slack
because they would then own outright what they learned and that is when the focus became what can make me money now.

also there is very little coordination between specialty's a surgeon sees surgical solution an endocrinologist sees hormonal solutions,an epidemiologist
sees disease as the root cause.
this is not surprising this is what they are trained to see.
in very few places in the us does the heart guy talk to the surgeon and the endocrinologist to arrive at the best course of treatment.
so yes the system is broken,but if you look world wide most of the research in medicine is done right here in the us so those wonderful socialize medicine
countries have it good though they would have much less is the us citizen did
not pay through the nose and play guinea pig for the rest of you.

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greedy companies in the US!

Please define greedy and give examples, also I assume you are saying that only US pharmaceutical companies are greedy?

I personally do not know anyone who has been mistreated by the US health service, quite the reverse.

So please lets get a little perspective.

Thank you.

============================================================
you are right that it is not just the companies in the us and it is not entirely
the company's fault for doing what the law tells them they can.

the real question is how do we change the rules and practises in the us
so that all the doctors work together to ensure best outcomes,
the insurance company's actively involved in reducing medical cost while increasing care,
and get the pharmaceutical companies to once again compete for our business.

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Here is the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pharmaceutical_companies_by_country
Now go pick a country and bash away.

As was said, make money for the shareholder. The fiduciary duty to the shareholder doesn't change with the address of the home office.

As to issues, there is the often repeated claim that generic drugs aren't the same quality. Switching from drugs, to capacitors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague#Industrial_espionage_implicated it seems there is reason to worry.

Then there is culture. In some cultures bribery and graft are rampant, one can not expect drug manufacturing plant inspection to be exempt from those influences.

So there is likely some validity that for some drugs from some places, they are not of the same quality. IIRC today there was a message about Interpol going after fraudulent food. Food does not have as large a markup as drugs. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more.

As to reform, as a society we must find a common ground so we can implement policies to encourage the outcomes we wish. There seem to be three broad classes of drugs.
1) Treatments. Take these to control symptoms potentially for the rest of the patients life.
2) Cures. Take these and at the end of the course the condition is gone, but you could catch it again.
3) Vaccines. Take these and you will not get a disease.

The issue is drug companies are in the profit game. Consider a second, software. Many of us are now aware that software is no longer supplied on a disk that you buy once. Now software is on the cloud and you must purchase monthly rent. Drug companies are the same. You don't research a cure, you research a treatment. Don't sell one pill, sell pills for life!

Society needs to change the drug companies perspective on that. Very short patent life for a treatment, medium patent life for a cure, long patent life for a vaccine. Some measure to change that race to the bottom to sell as many pills as possible. And this can't come from just a few countries either. If it did the drug companies would simply pick up and move to a country where they could make as many pills as possible. Multinational.

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There are many US pharmaceutical companies operating in Sweden as well.

Pfizer https://www.pfizer.se/?gclid=COOYlJPI0ccCFQLjcgod434IWg
Merck http://www.merckgroup.com/en/imprint/mandatory_information/sweden.html

And probably more...

An inhalator for respitorial deseases costs about 120 dollar in the US.
In Cuba 5 cent.

It seems that the majority opinion in this thread is that the cause of the high price of prescription drugs and other medical expenses in this country is the capitalist desire for profit. The question to ask is health care to be an industry or is health care to be something else?
One can argue we have the best health care in the world and that is true if you are very well off but as one goes down the income ladder not so much. In fact for overall results for the total population we score quite poorly.
Gary has offered a few constructive ideas concerning patents but that is only part of the problem. The insurance industry is very culpable in that they allow the providers to game the system. Their should be some reward for them when they clamp down on those who are gaming the system rather than allowing them to just pass on the added expenses to their customers.
It has been argued that the free market will correct the situation and I say it has not. The reason is that a free market requires knowledge of the market and patients do not have enough medical knowledge to question what their provider prescribes. A free market by definition does not exist.

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as D2 is reversible, u could also learn WHAT 2 EAT & WHEN...so u wouldn't need insulin!
just a thought?!
ask more some nutritionist...
;)

Be very careful when you make a blanket statement like that.
Not all medical conditions are the same for all individuals.

that's why I suggested an individual visit to nutritionist!
so they get d right info...
;)

My particular form of Type II was diagnosed 11 years ago. I have successfully treated it by diet, exercise and an oral med called Metformin(commonly prescribed initially). My Doc was amazed and has used me as a study case(he is a teaching resident and Diabetes Specialist at a major Denver Hospital).

Last September I ruptured the Gastrocnemius (Large Calf Muscle) and injured the tendons and joints in my left leg/ankle and was basically immobile for 3 months. So much for my daily 3 mile walk in the park. Results were higher A1C than desired and an additional Oral med(still no Insulin prescribed). Progress has been slow and pain has been sometimes overwhelming when stretching the affected tendons. Another problem with treating my condition is that I am allergic to Sulfa and most Glucophages are Sulfa based which limits my Doc's choices of meds.

The exercise routine is growing slowly and returning my A1C levels to acceptable levels but I guess I underestimated my recuperative abilities at 68.

d idea is "still no insulin prescribed"! GREAT 4 U.

keep up d good work!
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

It seems that the majority opinion in this thread is that the cause of the high price of prescription drugs and other medical expenses in this country is the capitalist desire for profit. The question to ask is health care to be an industry or is health care to be something else?
One can argue we have the best health care in the world and that is true if you are very well off but as one goes down the income ladder not so much. In fact for overall results for the total population we score quite poorly.
Gary has offered a few constructive ideas concerning patents but that is only part of the problem. The insurance industry is very culpable in that they allow the providers to game the system. Their should be some reward for them when they clamp down on those who are gaming the system rather than allowing them to just pass on the added expenses to their customers.
It has been argued that the free market will correct the situation and I say it has not. The reason is that a free market requires knowledge of the market and patients do not have enough medical knowledge to question what their provider prescribes. A free market by definition does not exist.

Nice to see there are some that are HUMANE and can use there Brain.

I am not going to say sorry for anything I have said .Some time ppl need a good smack across the head to wake them up .

Private health insurance or trying to make a profit from health care has never work'd unless you become cruel and in humane . It is why it is so ofenvise.

Abad health policy is akin to Genocide only it targets all and kills ten's of millions.

You should be ashamed , angry , pissed off . SO AT YOUR NEXT ELECTION STAND UP

NOT IN YOUR NAME and shun any political party that does not get it HEALTH CARE is all about HUMAN RIGHTS and should never be thought of as profit or loss

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I would also like to remind Americans that Australia unlike England did not have Universal Health care after ww2 we had private health care until the 1970'S some 30 odd years after ww2

So we unlike the Europeans or English can speek as we have had both systems it gives us a uneek view and gives us more experience than America , Europe , or England so maybe you should listen , look and learn .

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It seems that the majority opinion in this thread is that the cause of the high price of prescription drugs and other medical expenses in this country is the capitalist desire for profit. The question to ask is health care to be an industry or is health care to be something else?
One can argue we have the best health care in the world and that is true if you are very well off but as one goes down the income ladder not so much. In fact for overall results for the total population we score quite poorly.
Gary has offered a few constructive ideas concerning patents but that is only part of the problem. The insurance industry is very culpable in that they allow the providers to game the system. Their should be some reward for them when they clamp down on those who are gaming the system rather than allowing them to just pass on the added expenses to their customers.
It has been argued that the free market will correct the situation and I say it has not. The reason is that a free market requires knowledge of the market and patients do not have enough medical knowledge to question what their provider prescribes. A free market by definition does not exist.

==========================================================

as i said before there two types of free market the market of scarcity and the
open market where there is competition for your business.

all the mergers of pharmaceutical companies is supposed to not be allowed
under anti-trust law, over seen by,
U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) Antitrust Division, these are the people that broke up standard oil.
it is time again to break up the big companies so there are enough
that at least some will offer their wares at a lower price to get more sales.


as to the average person not knowing enough all i can say is that may have been the case when i started being ill but i would be dead now if i had not
used the internet to learn,and too shop for what i need.

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The insurance industry is very culpable in that they allow the providers to game the system. Their should be some reward for them when they clamp down on those who are gaming the system rather than allowing them to just pass on the added expenses to their customers.

Actually the reward to the insurance company is to not clamp down on costs and allow them to rise. As most of the world sets its price as cost plus a percentage, as costs rise, profits rise. Short term of course there is a price to pay if a cost goes up on a fixed rate contract, but at the next interval that can be recovered. Why do you think insurance has an open enrollment date? It is to fix the prices for the year term. This protects the insurance company's profits.

However you have only been thinking of one of the insurances involved. The other is medical malpractice. The same big insurance company conglomerates own those companies as well. As malpractice goes up, doctors raise rates. As rates rise the company makes more money. Vicious little circle they have going on.

While you are chewing on that consider HMO/PPO vs. the old traditional medical plan. What you have today, you have to see an insurance company employee doctor. Their salary is set by the insurance company. The only way they can make more is see more patients. Hours in the waiting room as they over book. Just remember this.

On the old traditional insurance, you saw your doctor, he wrote out a bill and you sent it to the insurance and they paid it. Doctor could set his rates so he had holes in the schedule for emergencies, there was no overcrowded waiting room, you got much better care ....

This idea of Obamacare, putting wall street in charge of medicine .... wait until they find a way for a crash! You know they will!

P.S. Remember the republicans, the business owners, opposed this. Perhaps they know what is coming and also know they are in it as customers?!

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This idea of Obamacare, putting wall street in charge of medicine .

You have to be fear here Gary Obama did not really wish to bring the current system you have in , he was stopped by your system he wish'd to do it the way it is here .

Pay 1% extra tax under 75,000 and 1.5% extra over that amount

OR join a private Health Fund .....Yes we have PRIVATE health funds.

Not shore what's going on with your patent system but we have generic drugs and you are all ways asked if you wish to have the cheaper one or not at the chemist , humane nature

You find because there is not that much difference in price most will buy the original not the generic.

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Actually the reward to the insurance company is to not clamp down on costs and allow them to rise.

Gary as I stated previously, that is one thing that needs to be addressed. Paying a commission on claims volume makes no sense,

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Actually the reward to the insurance company is to not clamp down on costs and allow them to rise.

Gary as I stated previously, that is one thing that needs to be addressed. Paying a commission on claims volume makes no sense,

Which is everything that is wrong with Obamacare. Wall Street in charge. Monopolies of care giver organizations. .....

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Actually the reward to the insurance company is to not clamp down on costs and allow them to rise.

Gary as I stated previously, that is one thing that needs to be addressed. Paying a commission on claims volume makes no sense,

It's not clamping down on costs that needs to be done it's preventative health care that needs to be done your system does not encourage this .

commission's ??? for what ?? Health Care thought of as profit or loss does not work .

It just opens health care to the worse crimes there are murder and it's silent hard to prove and if the system has been designed that way well ....it's not murder !!

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Here's one for you. Washington Post - Cost of Snakebite antivenom