The US Health Care System sucks!
To going personally bancrupt and perhaps even need to sell your house to get treatment is disgusting!

Glenn,

You HAVE been misinformed.

In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.

https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.html?redirect=/EMTALA/01_overview.asp

1986... Almost 30 years ago, this became the LAW in the USA... Back during the Reagan Presidency... A Conservative... imagine that...

Now, as has been said, EMTALA does not apply to doctor's offices, but only to Hospitals, and not every Hospital. It applies to Hospitals with Emergency Departments (which is almost all of them), and of those it applies only to those that take Medicare/Medicaid (which again, is almost all of them, 98% if I remember correctly). Medicare/Medicaid accounts for 44% (last data I have seen) of ALL medical spending in the USA. Also, EMTALA accounts for 6% (again, last data I have seen) of medical spending. So, of the spending on health care in the USA, HALF goes to the elderly (medicare), the poor (medicaid), and the uninsured near-poor (EMTALA). That is hardly a bad track record.

You claim you heard about 'patient dumping' by hospitals from a Michael Moore movie (Sicko?). Well, consider that 1. it is a MOVIE, and 2. Moore is a political activist.

That patient dump you claimed to have seen happened because IT WAS IN THE SCRIPT.

Now, then, EMTALA does NOT cover all medical care, but it DOES cover a medical screening examination (MSE), and treatment of an emergency medical condition(EMC).

An emergency medical condition (EMC) is defined as "a condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in placing the individual's health [or the health of an unborn child] in serious jeopardy, serious impairment to bodily functions, or serious dysfunction of bodily organs."

If a hospital violates EMTALA, they are subject to BIG fines, and possibly even being closed down (yes, this HAS happened a few times). The EMTALA law specifies a fine of up to US$50,000.00 per violation, and since a single patient encounter can result in MULTIPLE violations, Hospitals tend to obey this law without question. It is cheaper to just go ahead and treat patients with EMCs. Malpractice/liability insurance usually won't cover these administrative fines.

Add to this, the sheer number of ambulance-chasing lawyers out there eager to score a big one...

First comes the EMTALA administrative penalties... Then the Civil Lawsuit...

Nope, hospitals over here are VERY careful to not violate EMTALA. Those I have been inside of lately have rather large signs just inside the ER entrance (and many have them inside the main entrance as well) in English and in Spanish, informing patients of their rights under EMTALA.

So, Glenn, who are you going to believe on this? The LAW? Or, the word of some muck-racking movie-maker with an axe to grind?

Kong first of all it was not in the script .It was taken of security films at the Skid row medical centre and she still had the hospital tag thingy they put on you however her name had been removed and the hospital from where she came from .

2 broken ribs , stiches across the top of her head and had not yet heal'd bad bruisiong on her face and she was disorientated when thje staff had to go outside and see what was going on .

The staff at the Skid row medical centre said they get at least 10 a month .

just because there is a law does not mean it doesn't happen .

So you think Reagan was a good bloke on health . really

Wasn't it Nixon that gave you the system that has now had to be fixed and I think Reagan conferm'd it and Bush then changed things and all of a sudden the elderly found them self's paying double for there med's

As for Mike more . he's such a bad person that when he found out his biggest critic was going to shut his web site down because his wife had become sick and he needed heaps of money to get her help .

Mr Moore thought that was not right ."For this guy to close his web site down because of the bad policy's about health care and not be able to exercise his right to free speech even if he is my biggest critic is wrong". What did mister Moore do ?


Well he wrote out a 12,000 buck anonyomous check and sent it to this man . His wife got better and the web site is still dissing Mike Moore

But hey you wont even look at the video will you . So unless you have you have no freaking idea what your saying

---

Have you watched Sicko Jan or just the Australian report I put up ?

I am interested in what you think about Americans after watching Mike Moore's Sicko Doco but just PM me as I'm shore it will make your feel like I did and may even change your view about some of them.

---

Have you watched Sicko Jan or just the Australian report I put up ?

I am interested in what you think about Americans after watching Mike Moore's Sicko Doco but just PM me as I'm shore it will make your feel like I did and may even change your view about some of them.

I'm about to see Mikael Moore's docu since you mentioned it.
I know he is very contriversal in the US.
He has also done docus about gun control that upset many in the US because of the second amendement in the US "ancient" constitution
Sicko trailer. The whole docu is 2 hours long so I will get back to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BJyyyRYbSk
Get well soon if you can afford it:)

I know there are plenty of Moors in the US so we know that the US will change eventually.

Kong first of all it was not in the script .It was taken of security films at the Skid row medical centre and she still had the hospital tag thingy they put on you however her name had been removed and the hospital from where she came from .

Might try the truth for a change, and not a Hollywood movie from a man who likes to tell lies ...
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/05/14/patient-dumping-in-america-hospitals-discharging-sick-homeless-back-onto-street/

The problem of homeless patient dumping— or failing to make continued care arrangements when a patient is well enough to leave the hospital but too ill to return to the streets— is only fueling Southern California’s homeless problem, argue advocates familiar with the issue.
...
LA City Attorney Mike Feuer has filed multiple lawsuits against hospitals for alleged homeless patient dumping.
...
“That’s one of the biggest challenges that the public misses— that hospitals aren’t prisons, and the law follows the right to the patient. And the patient has the right to refuse medication, to refuse housing, and go where they want regardless,” she said.
...
Orange County

That last "Orange County" is important. Orange County is bright red republican fiscal conservative, and a for profit hospital there was caught dumping in Los Angeles County, bright blue democrat. They thought if they got the "leech" out of the county they wouldn't have to spend their $$$$$ on them and maybe they even wouldn't get caught and pay the medicaid penalty for a readmission within 30 days, because the name/address wouldn't match. Criminal fraud is criminal. Mr. Moore highlighted a crime, but he failed to tell you it was a crime! That is being a liar! "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

---

First Kong comes here and try's to tell me "it doesn't happen as we have laws to stop it "

Gary then try's to defend the indefendable and says Moore is a lie then posts a article that I quote

LA City Attorney Mike Feuer has filed multiple lawsuits against hospitals for alleged homeless patient dumping. He filed his latest in April against a hospital for allegedly dumping a 38-year-old schizophrenic homeless woman, wearing only paper pajamas, on Skid Row. Various reports from the past decade allege similar cases: a hospital van in 2007 dropping off a paraplegic man on Skid Row, leaving him crawling in the street wrapped in a soiled gown and a broken colostomy bag;

and then in the same Article proves Mike Moore did not tell lie's and comferms what he said in the Doco , I quote

and another female patient in 2006 transported by taxi cab to the area wearing only a hospital gown and slippers.

Gary it was the Republicans that have caused the mess and the Democrates have been trying to fix it
AKA: Hillary Clinton try'd to fix it in the first term of the Clinton years .

Anybody that tries to defend a policy that has killed millions over the last 45 years has less morals than ISIS

Also Gary remember this

I WAS HOMELESS FOR 2 YEARS AND I UNDERSTAND THEM MORE THAN ANY OF YOU SO CALLED GOD FEARING HONEST RIGHTOUS "A" holes whom have not be there and therefore will never understand .

Most people in the world are only 2 pay checks from being homeless and bankrupt

---

Glenn, so you are telling me in your country I can go into a hospital for a hangnail and live in a hospital for free for the rest of my life? If you aren't telling us that, then you have better read what has been posted for comprehension.

<ed>You seem to be shocked that people will break the law. Don't people over there do drugs? Don't people over there steal? Don't companies over there violate workplace safety laws?

What is so damn hard for you to get through your skull that a hospital can break the law?!

---

Gary you really are a amoral person to say what you just said the women that was dropped off was not fit to leave a hospital .

I hope you do get sick because until that happens you will continue to be a fool.

Actually they won't let you out off hospital unless you have somewhere safe to go to finish your recovery so although you can't live in a hospital here you will not be kicked out onto the streets infact mate
What happens here is the hospital contacts various place and will find you a place to go hell if your in a hospital you will be put at the top of the list for public housing and when you are discharged you will have a home to go to .

Unless you are going to watch the doco SHUT YOU PATHETIC MOUTH YOUR ONLY DIGGING A DEEPER AMORAL HOLE FOR YOURSELF

Mike Moore goes to England and France Canada to compere the systems .

Isn't it funny that the terrorists at Gitmo get better health care than the average American , Mike Moore took a few firemen from 9/11 to Cuba and try'd to get them to GITMO however they where not allowed so where did he take them .

To Cuba .

While there one of the firemen a female goes into a chemist and asked how much it was for a inhaler , they tell her it's 3.2 peco's or 20 cents U.S. The same medication cost her $120 back home

Another fireman(female) was able to be taken of 5 of the 9 drugs her doctors at home said she needed and she got a correct diagnosis and so did the rest of them .

The look of shock on there faces when they where told it was free was so much they cry'd , I can't believe it's free why don't we have this we are spose to be one of the riches country's in the world

---

as D2 is reversible, u could also learn WHAT 2 EAT & WHEN...so u wouldn't need insulin!
just a thought?!
ask more some nutritionist...
;)

Be very careful when you make a blanket statement like that.
Not all medical conditions are the same for all individuals.

+10 What he said. If mine were reversible it would have already been done.

---

Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Gary you really are a amoral person to say what you just said the women that was dropped off was not fit to leave a hospital .

I said it was illegal, a crime. Major quoted the law that was violated. I have no clue why you can't accept that criminals exist. Really?! Why are there laws if there aren't criminals!


Perhaps I should conflate issues:
America has a crazy control problem!

“That’s one of the biggest challenges that the public misses— that hospitals aren’t prisons, and the law follows the right to the patient. And the patient has the right to refuse medication, to refuse housing, and go where they want regardless,” she said.

A nutcase can refuse treatment. A person who is totally insane can refuse treatment. That person is let loose on the streets. Because of HIPPA no doctor can put that person's name in a database to deny them the right to buy a gun, until after they have harmed someone.

So here is how it goes. Nut is found on the street in a bad way hearing voices. There is a pile of paperwork for a commitment, but none if you can tick him into voluntary treatment. Hot meals and a shower is a nice trick. Nut is brought into the hospital. Hospital pumps the nut full of drugs. The voices go away. The nut is capable of taking care of himself. The nut is discharged with a 30 day supply[1] of drugs. Nut buys a gun to defend against the voices. Drugs run out - or he stops taking them - nut shoots up a shopping mall when the voices come back.

“That’s one of the biggest challenges that the public misses— that hospitals aren’t prisons

Apparently you think hospitals should be prisons. The liberals shed billions of tears and demanded and end to the practice. The democrats won and the crazies wander the streets of America, because of HIPPA free to buy guns and shoot up the place.

America has a crazy control problem!


[1]Note 30 days. The law says you can't discharge people if they will come back in less than 30 days.

Actually they won't let you out off hospital unless you have somewhere safe to go to finish your recovery so although you can't live in a hospital here you will not be kicked out onto the streets infact mate
What happens here is the hospital contacts various place and will find you a place to go hell if your in a hospital you will be put at the top of the list for public housing and when you are discharged you will have a home to go to .

1) In America they can't hold you against your will in a hospital, absent a court order, even if you don't have someplace safe to go. That is the crime of kidnapping.
2) Hospitals desperately try to find a place for you but there may be no bed available. Remember Kong's post, only hospitals with emergency departments that take medicare are required to treat.
3) America does not have public housing.

I thought there was another thread about hospitals. Is this spill over?

---

Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Gary you are not held against your in a hospital you can discharge yourself . But unlike your system they wont be discharged because they can't pay the bill as MEDICARE will pay it .

You can only be held against your will if you have been interview'd by a head shrink and he says you are a danger to yourself and the general public and then you can only be held for a short time while they are treated. WE do not have Sanatariums they where done away with decades ago .

Our nut cases also get discharged and wonder the streets but don't go around killing people as it's not just your health system that needs to be changed it's your whole "F" ing SICKO attitude to the human condition witch is totally based on profit before being humane.

All your doing is showing just how inhumane your country is by defending the indefensible still looking under the bed for the "REDS"

I notice your not touching the woman that was dropped off by a Taxi she was not even able to figure out where she was because of concussion and her injury's .
WEDGE POLITICS , so your wasting your time with that tactic on me I think and don't just follow the rest like sheep.

Are you a sheep or can you actually use your brain to think.

I spose all these hospitals are full of criminals and there the ones running the hospitals . Ofcause it's not the faceless men that run the insurance that tell the directors we are not going to cover that person so you will have to discharge them and turn your medical staff into criminals witch is so wrong to put medical staff in that position it once again shows just how evil your country is and just how evil the Republicans are .

Funny how Tony Abbot a "F"ing Liberal (republican) has brought in laws that can have a doctor arrested if they release any information about what they may be doing or the conditions of the detention processing places to the public that will bring the current Liberal Party in to disrepute.

And you say the Liberal and Republicans are nice there always the ones that start wars and bring in bad policy's that over time screw a country up.

---

Ok, I don't often visti this sewer called Politics, but there a couple of threads that intrest me.
Rant ON

Glenn, do you have any personal expierence in the USA health care system? If no, butt out.

I had a serious medical issue a few years back. Evenso I had no insurance or means for a downpayment, I was assigned a room within 15 minutes of arrival.
Not sure, if I was on a deathbed and entitled to a special room. Lot's of others in the hall way.

So, if you haven't used the healthcare system PERSONALLY, don't knock it.
Rant off

---

Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

Uli I'm shore if you have adequate Insurance you get treated very well .

That is not the problem . Don't lose your job or your partner better not lose there job then you will see what happens and I bet you will then change your mind .

remember what this thread says

Big Pharmaceutical companies price gouging

Are they or is it the actual system that's the problem ?

---

Glenn, you are having a fantasy.

First, I have not "defended" anything. I've simply informed you that you are wrong and told you how the law says it is to work. I even quoted where, when the law was violated, a prosecuting attorney filed charges against the criminals. BTW, Michael Moore got that videotape from the public court record after those charges were filed! MajorKong quoted the law to you which apparently you refuse to believe exists. Now uli has chimed in, with her personal experience saying your version of America is a fantasy.

Apparently you never were exposed to the hype as to why Obamacare was needed. The number one reason it was needed is because Hospital Emergency Rooms have to treat anyone who comes through the door, payment or not. All the uninsured were piling in and getting care for free. So much so that serious cases that belong in a hospital, not a clinic or a doctor's office, were not being seen PDQ. So they made Obamacare to get the uninsured, insured, so they could go to a clinic or doctor's office and relieve the pressure on the overburdened hospital emergency rooms. Its entire reason to exist is because hospital emergency rooms must treat, payment or not!

You talk about insurance company denials but the entire conversation has been about people without insurance. If you don't have it, no insurance company is ever involved to say they won't pay for it. DUH!!!

The rest of your rant is filthier than Rupert Murdoch in a hog wallow. It is obvious you hate America to the point where you are unable to get past the blind hatred and use even one brain cell in a logical manner.

Goodnight.

---

Ok, I don't often visti this sewer called Politics, but there a couple of threads that intrest me.
Rant ON

Glenn, do you have any personal expierence in the USA health care system? If no, butt out.

I had a serious medical issue a few years back. Evenso I had no insurance or means for a downpayment, I was assigned a room within 15 minutes of arrival.
Not sure, if I was on a deathbed and entitled to a special room. Lot's of others in the hall way.

So, if you haven't used the healthcare system PERSONALLY, don't knock it.
Rant off

Glenn read and answer please.

---

Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

Gary I don't hate America I do hate some of the policy's you have .

I did not say I don't believe you have laws to stop it I said just because there is a law doesn't mean it is not happening .

Has murder stoped because there are laws no !

If it's only about not being insured why then are people having to sell there houses even when they do have insurance .

If you have seen the video it shows this .

People with insurance are being denied there claim or did you miss that part of it .

Why do you think ISIS is able to recuit and portray America as being EVIL .

One reason is your health system I guess that did go over your head

Of course I know the average American is not evil however that is not how you are portrayed outside of America .And I can understand it as it makes my stomach turn to think you are just not getting what has happened and so many people are being screww'd to the point they die

Which is what I was getting at with the statement America is evil

You can dismiss Mike Moore if you want but I have also put a link up from a Australian news broadcast which tells the same story and if our reporters are finding the same as what Mike Moore has in the movie then for gods sack open your eyes as other country's will also find the same

And it is helping ISIS in there propaganda and they don't even have to lie about it.

---

As Bernie reminded everyone.....

"Filter" is your friend!

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Uli

Have you had a major problem like a double hart bypass , loss some fingers that needed to be reattached , do any of your kids need a Cochlear implant , how about cancer , do you have MS or do you need dialysis 4 times a week

If you don't or haven't had the above illnesses then you have not experienced there health systems real face

Or have you only experienced there health system with normal conditions , having baby's , Broken bones , got a infection , tonsils removed , appendix removed some thing that can be fixed and you won't need continuous expensive medical care ?

Can you tell me why Americans live less than country's that do have Universal health care or why Americans have more as a % of the population with illnesses than country's with Universal health care .

Or why Mike Moore's gran would not meet him in America unless they got special Insurance even thou they where only crossing the boarder for a few hours to meet him. Even the Canadians think there system is wrong.

---