It is certainly worth dreaming about reducing one's power bills, and just now solar PV looks to be one of the better ways of doing it. I sympathise with your potential installation problems, as I said earlier my roof is "the wrong way round", and you have structural problems.
I terms of watts/unit area, and watts/unit spend I'm envious of you Vic, really very envious. In the UK we get, at best, about half the solar input you do, and even then only for about half the years, so say a quarter over the year, which moves it from your "highly attractive" to our "marginal".
Vic, good luck in finding suitable panels and funding, I hope someone somewhere comes up with something that works in your situation.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

One of my co workers using solar on the roof.
It produces 6000-9000 KWH a year.
Thats in germany and thats no sunny state.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Just for Info,
I currently have a Solar installation on my roof, the roof has an approximately N-S ridge, so is the "wrong way", but I have 14 panels, as that is all we could fit.

Even so, despite being "wrong way", and half on each side, and in Reading in the UK, we are getting over £500 p.a. payback, depending on the weather, as well as the installation subsidy.

FYI, in the UK there is a battery system, IIRC called Midnite Sun, that allows some power to be stored for night-time, and similar use, then when the batteries are charged, passes the power back to the Utility for payback. We didn't install this.

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Happy Crunching,

Graham

The upfront cost was about £7K, would have been a bit more, but the builders already had the scaffolding there. Also, we had multiple controllers to cope with the fact that some of the panels are producing a lot less that others at times. This increased cost, but also meant that we produce more power more efficiently.

The payback seems to be about 12 years at the moment, hopefully coming down. but we were cash rich at the time, and relatively income poor, so thiey let me crunchwhere otherwise the power cost would have made things difficult. The estimated life of the panels is supposed to be 25 yesrs.

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Happy Crunching,

Graham

Here is one option that we have that might work for you. You would have to lobby your government to adopt it. In the US we pay property taxes on any land that we own. To encourage renewable energy the US created and funded a financing program called PACE. The program allows you to have wind or solar installed on your house with PACE funding. The loan is paid back over 10-25 years, interest fee. The annual payment is added to your property tax bill. The idea is that it's a loan to the homeowner, regardless of who the homeowner is. If you sell the house the energy system and the bill stay with the house. So for people who are advanced in years and would never see the payback of a system, this makes a lot of sense. In addition since the payment becomes a "Tax" on the house, it's also deductible from you income tax, and solar on a house generally increases it's value. So very little down side.

Distribution charges are an issue here in the US as well. I cannot speak for all utilities, but PG&E already has a distribution charge built into the energy bill. If you do reduce the amount of energy you purchase from them, the distribtuion charge does not change. Even if you 100% self produced (solar, wind, bio-fuel, hydro) you will still see the distribution charge. If you disconnect from the grid, you have now entered a gray area where there is no existing law to direct what the utility can do. Belive me they are lobbing for the right to require everyone, connected or not to pay a distribution charge.

if i'm not connected how they gonna charge me no account no charge and even if they would send me a bill for nothing i would not pay a dime

the power company tried to screw with me before after i prooved they been messing with the electronic meters ... they ended up paying me back 8500$ for the years they ripped me off

As I said there is no law on how to treat non-customers yet. It is being debated. Existing customers are paying a distribution charge. Here is how PG&E is dealing with customers. If you listen carefully, you will hear PG&E has a basic fee. That is the transmission, taxes and other fees.

Because energy companies are seeing less and less revenue as people add generation capacity, they see a point in time when they will not be able to maintain the energy network. Companies argue that an energy network is essential and that government should start taking steps to insures it's continued existence. There have been several suggestions that range from charging people who do install solar more to establishing a flat transmission fee that will be paid by everyone. Again, these are suggestions. The debate continues, but it is an issue that (IMHO) will be legislated within the next 5 years.

I hadn't thought about it before, but I supposed the utilities are starting to see reduced revenue due to home solar while their costs of maintaining the distribution network are staying the same or rising. Even worse, with the right equipment, home generated power goes back into the grid, meaning essentially that the utility is paying to maintain the grid that you are using to sell your excess power to your neighbors.

It's kind of the same problem the Highway Trust Fund is having: cars are (by government mandate) becoming more fuel efficient, meaning they use less gas (or none for electric cars); less gas used means less gas tax collected to pay for building and fixing the roads, but the more-efficient cars are still producing just as much wear and tear on the roads. Result: the trust fund has been short for several years, being shored up by Congress out of general revenues.

However, I don't see how anyone can justify charging a fee if you aren't connected to the grid at all.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

The estimated life of the panels is supposed to be 25 yesrs.

Does that take into account a thunderstorm or two a year with minor hail?

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Distribution charges are an issue here in the US as well. I cannot speak for all utilities, but PG&E already has a distribution charge built into the energy bill. If you do reduce the amount of energy you purchase from them, the distribtuion charge does not change. Even if you 100% self produced (solar, wind, bio-fuel, hydro) you will still see the distribution charge. If you disconnect from the grid, you have now entered a gray area where there is no existing law to direct what the utility can do. Belive me they are lobbing for the right to require everyone, connected or not to pay a distribution charge.

if i'm not connected how they gonna charge me no account no charge and even if they would send me a bill for nothing i would not pay a dime

the power company tried to screw with me before after i prooved they been messing with the electronic meters ... they ended up paying me back 8500$ for the years they ripped me off

As I said there is no law on how to treat non-customers yet. It is being debated. Existing customers are paying a distribution charge. Here is how PG&E is dealing with customers. If you listen carefully, you will hear PG&E has a basic fee. That is the transmission, taxes and other fees.

Because energy companies are seeing less and less revenue as people add generation capacity, they see a point in time when they will not be able to maintain the energy network. Companies argue that an energy network is essential and that government should start taking steps to insures it's continued existence. There have been several suggestions that range from charging people who do install solar more to establishing a flat transmission fee that will be paid by everyone. Again, these are suggestions. The debate continues, but it is an issue that (IMHO) will be legislated within the next 5 years.

I hadn't thought about it before, but I supposed the utilities are starting to see reduced revenue due to home solar while their costs of maintaining the distribution network are staying the same or rising. Even worse, with the right equipment, home generated power goes back into the grid, meaning essentially that the utility is paying to maintain the grid that you are using to sell your excess power to your neighbors.

It's kind of the same problem the Highway Trust Fund is having: cars are (by government mandate) becoming more fuel efficient, meaning they use less gas (or none for electric cars); less gas used means less gas tax collected to pay for building and fixing the roads, but the more-efficient cars are still producing just as much wear and tear on the roads. Result: the trust fund has been short for several years, being shored up by Congress out of general revenues.

However, I don't see how anyone can justify charging a fee if you aren't connected to the grid at all.

I read in one state(Floriduh), being off the grid is illegal.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Oh and anyone had any experience of selling a house with panels all over the roof? I would be very iffy buying one!

We are in the process of adding the cost of our new solar system to our home owners insurance. It has increased the value of our home and if we lost our home in a fire we would want to rebuild it - including the solar system.

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Carlos, PACE sounds like our Green Deal. You try selling a house with a Green deal debt hanging over it, they immediately drop the price that you ask! People will not take on other peoples debts.

I have sold just over 400 of them. I created one development where I used bond financing to maintain some of the green features, like parks and storm water recharge system. It added about $380 in property tax per year. My sales people said only 2 people objected to the extra tax. The houses sold for a lot more than I had projected.

As for resale, well I live in the sun belt. I looked at recent sales (last 6 months) and found several examples of two track houses that are nearly identical except that one with solar and the other not. The ones with solar typically sold for $30-$80,000 more than the one without.

One friend out here installed solar about a year ago. He tells me that his electric bill typically was $250-300 a month in the summer. Now it's $100 to Solar City and $10 to the power company. In the winter he gets a check from the power company, usually more than the $100 he pays Solar City.

While I understand your perception about trying to sell a house that has a debt on it, it seems that the benefit of solar is outweighing that.

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I think it would be fair to say that in the UK our biggest energy bills are in the winter, when it is colder, damper, and duller. So we have the heating on, driers on and lights on for more of the time, this being "off-set" by the fact that there are fewer hours of daylight....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Speaking of weather events. I know storms of this intensity do not happen often. But a coworker lost all the glass on one side of his home. The front door looks like a five pound hammer was used to beat on it. Just a nasty hail storm. Other homes in the area got similar treatment.

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Would love to have solar for electricity. As Ang said your roof has to be in exellent condition, mine tiles are aproaching the end of their life cycle. My HOA can't say squack about them being on a roof, but might forbid it on a great spot of brown lawn I have.
Anyway, that will be in the future.
I did have solar water in the 80/90s, but the roofers broke it. Didn't even think about filing a claim. Again a good tip Angela to make sure it is covered with your homeowners policy.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

I think it would be fair to say that in the UK our biggest energy bills are in the winter, when it is colder, damper, and duller. So we have the heating on, driers on and lights on for more of the time, this being "off-set" by the fact that there are fewer hours of daylight....

How about double glazing in the UK?
Here we even have triple glazing:)

All new homes in the UK have to achieve certain levels of thermal insulation, how this is achieved is up to the builder, with each surface type having a specific target. Double glazing is the preferred method for the windows. Triple glazing is rare in the southern half of the country, as we don't "enjoy" the harsh winters you do in Scandinavia.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Found an interesting article today:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730312-000-uk-is-perfectly-placed-to-use-100-per-cent-renewable-power/?utm_source=NSNS

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Found an interesting article today:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730312-000-uk-is-perfectly-placed-to-use-100-per-cent-renewable-power/?utm_source=NSNS

Can't read that without registering first. I try to maintain my privacy. Well I try. So can't read it. Oh well. Must have be interesting for you to have posted it.

Found an interesting article today:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730312-000-uk-is-perfectly-placed-to-use-100-per-cent-renewable-power/?utm_source=NSNS

Can't read that without registering first. I try to maintain my privacy. Well I try. So can't read it. Oh well. Must have be interesting for you to have posted it.

Hawaii’s Going 100 Percent Renewable, And It’s Not Using Natural Gas As A ‘Transition’.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Thank's Vic.
Interesting story. I have interviewed with NextERA for a job to manage Environmental Affairs in the Pacific region. (CA, OR, WA) If they buy Hawaii's grid I wonder if that would be added to my region? Could be a better job that I thought.

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Glad you liked that article Carlos.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's