Of the two H8's, one is in need of at most, an overhaul, the other needs a multi millionaire, since that one was stored outside, and may need a new boiler, among other things, maybe, the one that may need just an overhaul at most, is in the Henry Ford Museum, and it isn't going anywhere.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

We have a fine old steam engine right here in Nashville's Centennial Park. She is said to weigh more than 600,000 pounds. It is said to be one of the last steam engines built in the United States. They are collecting money to restore her to running condition. She is a 4-8-4





[IMG]http://i167.photobucket.com/albums

URL=http://s167.photobucket.com/user/ROTHAMEL/media/Nashville2_zps2pn6au6s.jpg.html]

The most powerful steam loco ever built, the ALCO C&O H8 Allegheny 2-6-6-6, 7500hp... My favorite steam loco, there are only 2 left in this world.

[quote =trainorders]
Wheel Arrangement: 2-6-6-6 Allegheny (Chesapeake & Ohio)
Drivers: 67" dia.
Cylinders: (4) 22.5" dia. x 33" stroke
Boiler Pressure: 260 psi
Tractive Effort: 110,200 lbs

Wheel Arrangement: 4-8-8-4 Big Boy (Union Pacific)
Drivers: 68" dia.
Cylinders: (4) 23.75" dia. x 32" stroke
Boiler Pressure: 300 psi
Tractive Effort: 135,000 lbs

Wheel Arrangement: 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone (Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range)
Drivers: 63" dia.
Cylinders: (4) 26" dia. x 32" stroke
Boiler Pressure: 240 psi
Tractive Effort: 140,000 lbs

Wheel Arrangement: 2-6-6-4 (Norfolk and Western)
Drivers: 70" dia
Cylinders: (4) 24" (dia) x 30" (stroke)
Boiler Pressure: 300 psi
Tractive Effort: 114,000 lbs

Wheel Arrangement: 2-8-8-2 Y6b class (Norfolk & Western)
Drivers: 58" dia.
Cylinders: 25" x 32" (HP)
39" x 32" (LP)
Boiler Pressure: 300 psi
Tractive Effort: 152,206 lbs (s)
126,838 lbs (c) lbs
[/quote]


From this list, the ALCO C&O H8 Allegheny 2-6-6-6 is at the bottom of the list for tractive effort.

However it may still have more horsepower as that is a function of effort over time.

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For those of you in the USA, get into an OSH and pick up their free calendar. Great RR paintings from http://www.jamesmannartfarm.com/

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Tractive Effort and"power" are not the same,
Tractive Effort is roughly equivalent to torque, and is a useful guide to the ultimate hauling capability of a locomotive, while power is a "real" measure, but may actually have little real-world application without the speed range over which applies. Indeed, without the speed at which the Tractive Effort applies it is also fairly meaningless.

A non-steam example (and using my memory for the exact figures) the UK Class 66 locomotive has ~3300 installed horse power, and a Tractive Effort of about 130,000lb at 17mph, compered to the UK Class 91 locomotive which has ~6000 installed horsepower, but a Tractive Effort of about 30,000lb at 105mph. Which one is the more powerful - why, it's the Class 91, but put that loco on the front of a 3,000 tonne train it will struggle to get it moving, while the Class 66 will haul comfortably up to 75mph, on the other hand the Class 91 will head a 400tonne train easily at 125mph, something the Class 66 will fail to do.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

You train people amuse me soooooooooooooooooooooooo much.
Let me tell you something about power and how it is applied.
A Buick455 can put out about 400 break horsepower of torque, fully under power with the Quadrajet fully open with the secondaries at full bore.
But it needs tires to do the work.
400 HP don't mean crap if you don't have any tires./

This means nothing but smoke if the tires are not hooked up to the road.
You have to be connected to the earth to move something.
And a locomotive, standing still, needs to have traction.
And even with their weight, they are still steel on steel.
My old Buicks could pull any one of them a quarter mile without a problem.
They might put up a fuss, but would not win.

Interesting, and I might research it..................
How much energy could a Buick Electra 455, based on the original 1975 big block engine compare with a diesel engine from a locomotive. I know it would not be anything comparable.
I just wish to get some people to understand what I drove back in the day.
A 455 Buick was something to contend with.
In an Electra, it was a thing of luxury.
In a Skylark, it was a weapon of fearful power.
I came very close to killing myself in it.
So close.
I can still today see the dust in the rear window and smell the smoke when the oil caught fire.
A woman who lived upstairs ran down and pulled me out just before it went up in flames./
Almost no kittyman that day.
Yes, I did come that close to not being here today,.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

A few pictures around the Severn Valley Railway just after Christmas:

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

All I see are broken image icons. However... I copied one url and pasted it in a new tab. I wonder...

A few pictures around the Severn Valley Railway just after Christmas:

Ah hah! I changed \\ to // in all your urls and now they work.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

You train people amuse me soooooooooooooooooooooooo much.
Let me tell you something about power and how it is applied.
A Buick455 can put out about 400 break horsepower of torque, fully under power with the Quadrajet fully open with the secondaries at full bore.
But it needs tires to do the work.
400 HP don't mean crap if you don't have any tires./

This means nothing but smoke if the tires are not hooked up to the road.
You have to be connected to the earth to move something.
And a locomotive, standing still, needs to have traction.
And even with their weight, they are still steel on steel.
My old Buicks could pull any one of them a quarter mile without a problem.
They might put up a fuss, but would not win.

Interesting, and I might research it..................
How much energy could a Buick Electra 455, based on the original 1975 big block engine compare with a diesel engine from a locomotive. I know it would not be anything comparable.
I just wish to get some people to understand what I drove back in the day.
A 455 Buick was something to contend with.
In an Electra, it was a thing of luxury.
In a Skylark, it was a weapon of fearful power.
I came very close to killing myself in it.
So close.
I can still today see the dust in the rear window and smell the smoke when the oil caught fire.
A woman who lived upstairs ran down and pulled me out just before it went up in flames./
Almost no kittyman that day.
Yes, I did come that close to not being here today,.

What I think your amusing argument comes down to is starting tractive effort and factor of adhesion.

Yes, rubber tires on a rough but firm surface such as asphalt have a much greater factor of adhesion than steel wheels on steel rails. Put a modern SD70ACe-T4 on level track with brakes released and your Buick might move it. Set the brakes and no way, unless you heavily greased the rails. Put the throttle in notch 1 (equivalent to putting a car in gear but not giving it any gas above idle speed) and again you spin. Give the diesel notch 2 and your Barfed Up Icky Caramel Korn is going backwards.

Weight on drivers:
SD70ACe-T4: 420,000 lbs.
Buick: ? (Total weight is what, 4,000 lbs.? 5,000? But that weight is unequally balanced toward the front, whereas all the tractive effort comes from the rear.) Can you find actual numbers?

Starting tractive effort:
SD70ACe-T4: 200,000 lbf.
Buick: again, can you find numbers?

Displacement:
Buick: I assume the 455 you mentioned is the total cubic inch displacement for the entire 8-cylinder engine.
FT: 567 cubic inches in EACH of its 16 cylinders. (This was the mass-produced diesel that finally broke the back of steam, proving diesel's superiority in the real world of railroad operation.)
SD40-2: 645 cid in each of 16 cylinders. (One of the most popular locomotives in railroad history.)
SD45: also 645 cid, but in each of 20 cylinders.
SD70M: 710 cid x16 cylinders. (Also very popular; Union Pacific bought over 1,400 of these, and other railroads bought minor variants of it. Production of the SD70ACe version ended because the 710 engine couldn't meet the EPA's Tier 4 emission standard that went into effect in 2015.)
SD70ACe-T4: 1010 cid x12 cylinders.

By the way, all of the above named locomotives are products of EMD, the D standing (from 1941 to 2005) for Division of General Motors, same parent as your Buick. (Okay, the FT was originally produced in 1939 by EMC, for Corporation, but even then it was wholly owned by GM.)

Also by the way, the 567 engine was produced in 6, 8, 12, and 16 cylinder versions. (They were and remain popular for marine and stationary use. One version of the LST boat of WWII was powered by a pair of 12-567s.) The 645 came in 6, 8, 12, 16, and 20 and also remains popular for marine and stationary use. The 710 came in 8, 12, 16, and 20 cylinders. Both the 645 and 710 in fact remain in production for marine and stationary use. The 1010J engine in current locomotive production only comes in 12 cylinders (so far), although it is an upgrade of the 265H design that proved to be unreliable and unpopular in the late 1990s; the 265 came in 12 and 16 versions.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/lirr-train-derails-injuring-103-people-brooklyn-terminal-article-1.2934105

A Long Island Rail Road train overshot its platform and plowed into a bumper block, injuring more than 100 rush hour commuters Wednesday at the Atlantic Terminal.

The train from Far Rockaway was arriving at the Brooklyn transit hub around 8:20 a.m. when it slammed into the block at the end of the track — reminiscent of September’s fatal Hoboken station crash.

Authorities reported there were 103 mostly minor injuries among the 650 riders, with the most seriously injured suffering a broken leg, authorities said.

---

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/lirr-train-derails-injuring-103-people-brooklyn-terminal-article-1.2934105

A Long Island Rail Road train overshot its platform and plowed into a bumper block, injuring more than 100 rush hour commuters Wednesday at the Atlantic Terminal.

The train from Far Rockaway was arriving at the Brooklyn transit hub around 8:20 a.m. when it slammed into the block at the end of the track — reminiscent of September’s fatal Hoboken station crash.

Authorities reported there were 103 mostly minor injuries among the 650 riders, with the most seriously injured suffering a broken leg, authorities said.

A broken leg I was told, is life threatening. But then I had one break in 2002.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

So where have I been all week? Well, on Wednesday, I took a train ride with my friends Mike and his dad George. We rode from Chicago to Pontiac, Michigan, 304 miles each way (Michigan Service timetable pdf). Counting the Metra train into the city, I rode nearly 666 rail miles. Why Pontiac? Because you can do it in one day and we'd never done it before.

Mike and George boarded Metra at 5:45 and I caught the same train at 6:03; it then ran express from Naperville to Chicago Union Station, arriving about at the scheduled 6:38. After visiting the restroom for necessity and Corner Bakery for breakfast (I wish I'd gone to McDonald's like they did), we got in line to board Amtrak train 350. They called for priority boarders (seniors, disabilities, families) about 7:00, then the rest of us when those had boarded. We were directed to the first coach and found seats facing forward (half the seats in each car face each way). I quickly set up my computer and connected it to Amtrak Connect, the on-board wi-fi. By the time we departed on time at 7:20, I had started ATCS Monitor and could already see our lineup on Norfolk Southern's Chicago Line (former Pennsylvania RR at this point) (not to be confused with the Chicago District, ex-Nickel Plate) south of the end of Amtrak property at 21st St. Initially, we were lined down Main 1 through Englewood to CP 513 (513 miles from Buffalo, NY, I think), where I could see a freight train lined from Main 2 across 1 in front of us and into Park Manor Yard. After a few minutes, Chicago West Dispatcher called to say this was 21K for the Amtrak crew's delay report. Once it cleared, I immediately saw the switches line normal and the signals come in for us (probably preset by the dispatcher). We arrived at our first stop, Hammond-Whiting, IN, about 5 minutes late. The conductor asked for 3-point protection and the HEP went off. After a couple of minutes, he released 3-point and said to highball, mentioning that Mechanical had been checking something. The engineer asked for Mechanical to come to the cab because his box had gone dark, but he couldn't because the back door of the engine was locked.

Leaving HMI (and shifting over to ex-New York Central, nee Lake Shore & Michigan Southern), I could see we were lined for a few miles. As I watched, a lineup came in for us to cross over to 2, and then we got signals all the way to Porter. Beyond there, I could see a westbound train approaching. This turned out to be Amtrak 29, the Capitol Limited, which Bernie may or may not have observed passing the webcam just past Porter at Chesterton (the high car detector just west of the Porter control point calls itself Chesterton). After that, a train was lined off the CSX line to Grand Rapids; this was Amtrak 371, the Pere Marquette (named for the original predecessor railroad of the CSX line). Once that got onto Main 1, we were lined across 1 and onto the Amtrak Michigan line. Where we stopped, blocking streets in downtown Porter.

As soon as we got into territory governed by Amtrak's high speed cab signal/PTC system, it gave a penalty stop. The engineer went back to open the door for the mechanic, and after a while they got the box reset and we started moving again. For much of this time, a local cop had been sitting across from my window. Meanwhile, the AML Train Director (dispatcher, sitting in an office back at Union Station) was not answering the radio. I think the conductor finally called him on the phone.

Amtrak's signal system is not transmitted by radio, so there is no way for ATCS Monitor to monitor it. I started setting up my modified radio, programming it as close as possible to the frequency used by Canadian National at Battle Creek (Amtrak enters the former Grand Trunk Western for 1.2 miles through town). Meanwhile, we made our stop at New Buffalo, MI, about 20 minutes late. At Niles, we took the siding to meet a westbound, but that put us in the station before him.

Amtrak acquired the Michigan Line (also ex-NYC, nee Michigan Central) in 1976 when Conrail was formed from the bankrupt Penn Central and a few other railroads, and didn't want the segment from Porter to Kalamazoo. In the 1990s and 2000s, Amtrak upgraded it to 110 MPH standards, but its trains continued to plod along at 79 the rest of the way to Detroit. After NS got this line when it split Conrail with CSX, it started negotiating with Amtrak and the state about pushing the high speed the rest of the way. Eventually, the state bought the line from NS, although NS continues to be the freight operator and, for now, dispatcher. Amtrak started working on the upgrades and now dispatches from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek. I had printed out the Michigan page at http://www.on-track-on-line.com/amtrak-freqs.shtml so I would know what to listen to on the radio, but I learned that they now stay on ch. 93 for this portion. (I sent the correction to the webmaster; no response so far, and I note he hasn't updated anything in 2 years.) East of Battle Creek is still controlled by NS and uses ch. 46, but Amtrak has been working on the segment to Jackson, so that part will probably change over to Amtrak control sometime this year. Unfortunately, my ATCS radio failed to pick up anything while in Battle Creek. The rest of the NS line to Detroit not being on ATCS, I reset for the CN segment out of Detroit to Pontiac, then turned to other things to keep myself occupied.

Somewhere along the way, we made up some time and were less than 10 minutes late at Ann Arbor and 5 at Detroit. Amtrak no longer uses the old Michigan Central station in downtown Detroit, having built a new one a while ago on the northwest side in an area that doesn't resemble the "no man's land" image the city has had for years. My radio started picking up some of the CN signals in the area, but not all of them and not enough to be much use to me. I shut down and packed up after Royal Oak to be ready to detrain at Pontiac. We were a good 10 or 20 minutes early, but if you compare the eastbound and westbound schedules, you'll see about 15 minutes of padding.

The train's consist was a P42 (#32, I think), a Heritage Fleet coach converted to a baggage car, three Amfleet I coaches numbered in the 82xxx series, and an Amfleet I cafe with Business Class seating in its rear half. I was a bit surprised by this: I had thought trains in Michigan had to have an engine on each end to achieve 110. The baggage was there, apparently, just to increase the total axle count, although the Assistant Conductor on the return trip said it was not required on this segment of CN like it is to Carbondale and New Orleans. Anyway, we were wondering what they were going to do to get a cab on the other end of the train to head back. Once we hit the platform, we discovered that there was a "protect engine" (126 (or 128?), I believe) sitting at the north end of the station track, facing south. The crew thought about it and decided to cut off 32 and leave it in place of 126, which they ran around the train and coupled to the south end. This all took much longer than I would expect, even with them having to deal with HEP cables and probably filling the cars with water. Meanwhile, we sat in the depot, keeping ourselves occupied with the summer 2016 issue of the Michigan Association of Rail Passengers' propaganda rag and other available reading materials, plus of course Facebook on the phone. Absent my sore leg and the frigid temperature, we might have tried to walk somewhere for lunch.

Suddenly, with less than ten minutes to go before the 5:40 departure, the blue flag was down, the switch was lined, and the train was backing onto the platform for boarding. We were told we could sit anywhere and I suggested we head forward to be closer to the lounge car and to the exit at Chicago. I did not get out my computer again, just the MARP rag and the November Trains magazine (I'm way behind in reading them). Then I headed to the lounge for some food, having had only cheese and crackers and Raisinettes from the depot vending machine since breakfast. The Angus cheeseburger is edible and the soft pretzel is good, but the nacho cheese cup that comes with it is too spicy for my taste. I tend to avoid caffeine, but I had to go with a can of Diet Pepsi and then later another to keep awake until we got home, and I still nodded off a bit somewhere after Dearborn.

Speaking of Dearborn, the afore-mentioned Assistant Conductor turned out to be a railfan and told me there was a restored narrow gauge saddle tank steam engine on display inside the depot and if I wanted to go in to get some pictures, he'd make sure I didn't miss the train. I took him up on that, but I also hurried and ended up having to wait for other passengers to board. Dearborn has a beautiful new (fairly) station just across the mainline from Greenfield Village and the Henry Ford Museum. I'm sure the place was built with state development funds to help draw visitors, but it was doing pretty good business even on a frigid night when Greenfield was closed.

A few minutes after departing Kalamazoo, the HEP cut out and we came to a stop. The power came on again and the engineer called for the conductor to come forward ASAP. I was starting to wonder if we'd hit something, but then he called the Train Director to say they were checking out a traction issue. After a few minutes, we started to move and he called again to say the number 2 traction motor was cut out.

We made the stop at Michigan City this time, the morning train having skipped it. HMI again (not all trains stop there anymore) and then into CHI a few minutes off the advertised, but in plenty of time to visit the men's room and check for new Metra schedules since I was last there. The Metra departure display said our11:40 train was boarding already, but in fact there was no train. I conjectured that it was probably the train due in at 11:30, and I turned out to be right. We departed on time, ran about a minute late at a few stops, made it up, and then started leaving 20-30 seconds early. Out of Belmont, the conductor asked for the police to meet us at Naperville for an unruly female passenger. The dispatcher took the request, but as it happened, they had not arrived by the time we did and she got off of her own accord. I also got off and took my small rolling suitcase (with computer, radio, various paper materials, meds...) and made the long trek down the ramp to the tunnel under the tracks, up the other ramp, and across the park to my car. It was cold, but not quite as biting as it had been in the morning. I got home about 1:00 a.m. and went to bed.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Don't know what all the flap was about




(Sorry, I couldn't resist that one - I'll get my coat)

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Rob that one was in questionable taste.

---

Ducks in training, eh?

---

Not sure whether this should be in the Transportation Safety thread!!

Ashland VA is the picture book town where the railroad runs right through the centre parallel with the main street.

On Saturday night a CSX freight hit an abandoned car about a mile from the camera.

Last night this happened. At around 6.22 pm a car turning left missed the street.




And ended up here;



His front wheels were in the ballast and he was going nowhere fast. Both occupants left the car and at 6.24pm the police arrived.




A couple of minutes later a bright headlight appears top right. The driver of the car is the guy at the bottom left of the picture.



The next was pretty inevitable.



CSX train Q13614 hauled by 3339 made contact with the car.



And of course "moved" it out of the way!! Luckily the engineer obviously had been told of the problem and the train was only going slowly and actually stopped here.



There were only 2 locos so that is the rear of 3339. Unlucky for the car driver as even at that slow speed his car was a bit bent.

As you can see when they hauled it away later.



It was another hour before the first train went through as CSX needed to check the track.

So one wrong turn caused 3 hours of delays and probably left one car driver wondering how he will get to work today.

So one wrong turn caused 3 hours of delays and probably left one car driver wondering how he will get to work today.

It occurs to me that at an intersection like this, one could install gates across the tracks that would lift only when the normal gates are lowered to reduce the possibility of issues like this. Or perhaps gates that rotate rather than raising?
Wonder if that is ever done?

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http://wtvr.com/2017/01/15/car-struck-by-train-ashland-england-street-and-north-center-street/
It is unclear if the drivers in either incident will face charges.

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I and all the VR railfan members obviously had access to the same video but I thought it best to let Virtual Railfan do the honours.

Hope they got a good deal!!