The reason I ask is that your gem that started this thread goes right there.

I'm not Guy

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The government steps in, taxes the sale of iron goods, wheat and corn and then builds a road that soon caves in full of pot holes.

Lol, potholes happen when you build a road with tax money and then refuse to spend more tax money on maintenance. Countries that do spend money on maintaining the public works end up with wonderful roads.

Guy, that's a nice fairy tale, did you make it up by yourself? Taxes are the price of civilization.

Yeah ,lets see him name one country in the past that didnt require taxes or tribute?

Kuwait. .... One of the world's richest countries, all health care and all the schools are free and you pay no tax.

I've always felt the clever and/or lucky people are going to do ok, no matter what, but trying to come up with a better system to help people economically is definitely above my pay-grade. Is there anything in the Star Trek mythology that explains how they got to their relative peace and economic egalitarianism?

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

The reason I ask is that your gem that started this thread goes right there.

I'm not Guy

Your right, sorry about that.

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I've always felt the clever and/or lucky people are going to do ok, no matter what, but trying to come up with a better system to help people economically is definitely above my pay-grade. Is there anything in the Star Trek mythology that explains how they got to their relative peace and economic egalitarianism?

A combination of the Eugenics Wars (1992-1996), WWIII (2049-2053), the post-Atomic horror (2054-2079 -- yes, WWIII went nuclear), and the First Contact with the Vulcans (2063).


The Eugenics Wars tore our society apart with a concentration on what was 'optimal'. WWIII and its aftermath (the post-Atomic horror) forced the pitiful remnants of humanity to concentrate on survival. Then the Vulcans arrived and showed humanity a 'better' way.

Yes, in the Star Trek mythos, we got to the time of peace (yeah, right... Klingons, Romulans, etc...) and egalitarianism. But we had to hit rock bottom FIRST.

Guy, that's a nice fairy tale, did you make it up by yourself? Taxes are the price of civilization.

Yeah ,lets see him name one country in the past that didnt require taxes or tribute?

Kuwait. .... One of the world's richest countries, all health care and all the schools are free and you pay no tax.

And is that country from the past?

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[/quote]

Old James

Are we having a Debate (prefer discussion) over Taxes/No Taxes. Or...

What and Who, are Taxed?

No, the topic is To Work or Not?

Are we having a Debate (prefer discussion) over Taxes/No Taxes. Or...

What and Who, are Taxed?

No, the topic is To Work or Not?

Does Taxing Power impact The Topic?

Greatly, as does regulatory power, though many here might be a bit unwilling to admit it.

Taxes, income and work are related.
Are there anyone who wants to tax people without an income or work?

Taxes, income and work are related.
Are there anyone who wants to tax people without an income or work?

Yes, they are the ones promoting wealth taxes, not income or consumption taxes.

But most important to the thread is the relation between welfare and work. Is welfare more valuable than work?

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Is welfare more valuable than work?

Yes. Thats why we work.

Is welfare more valuable than work?

Yes.

So good to know that Welfare is more valuable that work.

Thats why we work.

Well, just goes to show that there are dolts out there. :)

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Ah, Faux's source:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/15-minimum-wage-looms-seattle-restaurants-close-doors/

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Gary as I stated previously and the article states it has not gone into force yet and it will be phased in over years time. The alternate view point is that some marginal businesses are using $ 15 as an excuse for their failure.

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Ah, Faux's source:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/15-minimum-wage-looms-seattle-restaurants-close-doors/

Minimum wage in the US? What is it?
In our country you can work and the employers (for instance McDonalds) cannot give you a salary to live. A Place to rest between WORKS is too expensive!

Ah, Faux's source:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/15-minimum-wage-looms-seattle-restaurants-close-doors/

Minimum wage in the US? What is it?

Good Question:
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf
$2.13/hr for tipped (food service) employees!

@betreger, article is datelined March 15 and says a few weeks to take effect. Have any of those increases taken effect by now, July 27? YES!
http://murray.seattle.gov/minimumwage/#sthash.XLD2u6LF.dpbs
Ah, took effect April 1 @ $11.00/hr. Washington minimum is $9.47/hr. So on April 1 it went up $1.53/hr

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Private businesses, unlike government entities (which, in theory, can always raise taxes or borrow), must make more than they spend in order to pay the rent, make payroll, keep the lights on, pay their business taxes, and, heaven forbid, have some left over for the owners and investors who are taking the risk and putting in the long hours.

Aww, won't anyone think of those poor investors? They take such risks and put in such long hours, surely they are more entitled to money than those people that you know...run the actual business? I mean, what does 'taking risk' mean if not a guaranteed payout? And with 'long hours' they surely mean someone with a 40 hour work week who sits behind a desk trading stocks or working for a bank handling loans for a salary that goes from 'upper middle class' to 'insanely wealthy'.

Look, if you run on a 4% profit margin (and for a McDonalds that still means millions of dollars in profit) then I'm sorry, but you have chosen a very competitive economic sector. And as anyone who has ever taken econ 101 should know, the more competitive a sector is, the lower the profit margins will be. If you are unhappy with the profit margins, well then go find another business sector with less competition. And if you are an investor, well again, this is taught at econ 101, but you are not entitled to make a profit. You take a risk and that risk can work out and you get your money plus more back, or that risk can backfire and you don't get your money back. In this case, you are telling me I should feel sorry for investors who invested in a sector which has low profit margins that their profit margins aren't high enough.

Finally, we should consider here that essentially the US has followed a highly protectionist policy for business that primarily rely on low wage workers. By holding back wage increases for decades they have distorted the market and now there is finally going to be an adjustment, and rather than having to make that adjustment naturally over the course of several decades, they are now going to have make it in a much shorter time period. Yeah, business that have been operating on the edge of breaking even and now can't handle such a sudden wage increase, well basically those businesses weren't solvent in the first place and the only reason they could exist was because they were being protected. But will every business go out of business? Meh, I doubt it. Such dramatic wage increases have happened before in human history and they didn't cause the economic ruin these doomsayers are predicting.

Finally, we should consider here that essentially the US has followed a highly protectionist policy for business that primarily rely on low wage workers. By holding back wage increases for decades they have distorted the market and now there is finally going to be an adjustment, and rather than having to make that adjustment naturally over the course of several decades, they are now going to have make it in a much shorter time period.

Gosh, so by the democrats passing highly protectionist trade measures such as minimum wage laws, the US business man has had his wallet fattened! Wow, never thought I'd ever hear the truth on these boards!!!

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Ah, Faux's source:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/15-minimum-wage-looms-seattle-restaurants-close-doors/

Minimum wage in the US? What is it?

Good Question:
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf
$2.13/hr for tipped (food service) employees!

For some reasons it's the poor people that is paying the whealth of a few ones!