That's the point, our forefathers did vote for a federal government and the USA wouldn't even have 13 states without that government. It almost didn't happen. All thirteen states had to compromise their wants and desires to come up with a constitution that gave all of them a reason to sign up. IMHO England stood to gain more by being a member of the EU than they can ever achieve standing alone. The English empire is long gone and will never return.

An important difference as I understand it is here in the US we can vote the scoundrels out of office and elect new ones to change the law, in the EU that is not possible as I see it.

+1

The only reason I may vote for Trump is Hillary. I still think she and Donald conspired this who campaign up to guarantee her a victory. I also think they should either formally charge either or both of them before the conventions or drop the investigations.

Yes, both might get charged.
Please, don't vote for Trump!?
Look into Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, etc. ... .
Anyone know if the Libertarians and Greens will be on the ballot in all 50 states?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I understand Trump has peed a lot of them off and they do count for 50% of the vote so I wouldn't count Hillary out of the race yet in fact I reckon she has a very good chance of winning if only because of the female voters

Negative.

There is a Generation Gap among Democrat female voters.

In addition to an all inclusive Generation Gap within the Democrat Party.

The Anti-Incumbent, Anti-Establishment, Anti-Ruling Class, Anti-Capitalist Globalization (Screw the Western Worker) Voters.

May surprise many.

The younger ones wanted Sanders.
A few may get sucked in by Trump's faux populism. Some I know are too smart for that. I would not be surprised if they either write in Sanders or go to Stein,

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Clyde that'a the argument the LNP is running here and I don't think anybody is listening , there listening to other things

Like giving a 57 billion tax cut to companys (US shareholders benefit not us)

The tearing down of Medicare our Universal health care

Private Education over Public Education

Stuff the economy it's fine only the mugrels in office are the ones that are the problem

So don't be surprised if it's not Just the economy stupid

Case in point Brexit !!!

Obama continued the bail out of the crony, international capitalists.
The ordinary person took some hits not deserved.
I make about what I made 20 years or slightly more (if more, by a few thousand, not tens of thousands), despite being far more educated and experienced now than I was then. And I'm working more hours for it. That's just one story.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Nate has spoken for the first time in 2016, fivethirtyeight - Who will win the presidency?

Hillary Clinton - 80.3%, Donald Trump - 19.7%

If you are not familiar with Nate Silver then Guardian - Hillary Clinton has 81% chance of defeating Trump, Nate Silver predicts can be your introduction.

Nate Silver Apologizes For Bad Predictions, Then Makes Bad Prediction .

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I think that should be can't stand the a$$***es vote Gary Johnson, make America sane again.

The libertarian candidate, while being more to my liking, can never gain the support of enough of the voting population to do more than give the election to Hillary.

Again:

Perot earned 19%-20% of the popular vote in 1992, though not enough in any district to get any of the Electoral College. Still, that percent among 4 major candidates isn't bad and now we have Clinton & Trump with huge unfavorables. Do not write off a 3rd party candidate this time, at least ones on the ballot in all states.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Perot earned 19%-20% of the popular vote in 1992, though not enough in any district to get any of the Electoral College. Still, that percent among 4 major candidates isn't bad and now we have Clinton & Trump with huge unfavorables. Do not write off a 3rd party candidate this time, at least ones on the ballot in all states.

I don't remember Perot getting that much of the popular vote, but I do think this would be a great year for 3rd party candidates.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

(Apologies. Another out-of-sync reply)

Careful there Alex. I brought up logistics many times & got lambasted for being an anarchistic truck driver.

Anarchistic? Seriously? I wish I had been there to see that! What happened? Too much reality for the brain to compute? :P

What makes me laugh atm is Trump & Clinton, over 300,000,000 in the States & that's the best that America can come up with?

My sentiments exactly.

Perot earned 19%-20% of the popular vote in 1992, though not enough in any district to get any of the Electoral College. Still, that percent among 4 major candidates isn't bad and now we have Clinton & Trump with huge unfavorables. Do not write off a 3rd party candidate this time, at least ones on the ballot in all states.

I don't remember Perot getting that much of the popular vote, but I do think this would be a great year for 3rd party candidates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992

It seems, according to Wikipedia, Perot received 18.9% of the vote, which isn't too far off Sarge's claim. He received no electoral college votes though.

Nate has spoken for the first time in 2016, fivethirtyeight - Who will win the presidency?

Hillary Clinton - 80.3%, Donald Trump - 19.7%

If you are not familiar with Nate Silver then Guardian - Hillary Clinton has 81% chance of defeating Trump, Nate Silver predicts can be your introduction.

Nate Silver Apologizes For Bad Predictions, Then Makes Bad Prediction .

Step back over fivethirtyeight pages and you will probably find since 19th May he has written something on the subject.

But if you want to look further into those numbers there is a discussion page on the subject, fivethirtyeight - An 80 Percent Shot Doesn’t Mean Clinton Is A Sure Thing

David (Firestone, managing editor): After a lot of work, our general election forecast has gone live! But not everyone fully understands what a forecast model is. Some people think it’s a poll or are incorrectly saying, “Nate calls the race for Clinton.” Can we start by explaining at a basic level what a forecast model tells us?

Clare (Malone, senior political writer): Say it very, very slowly and use small words, please.

What if the republican party lets Trump win the nomination, as it looks he will without interference, and after the convention throws it's official backing to Gary Johnson. In that case I would vote for Johnson.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

What if the republican party lets Trump win the nomination, as it looks he will without interference, and after the convention throws it's official backing to Gary Johnson. In that case I would vote for Johnson.

"Make America sane again.“ :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGD8gJt7weU

No doubt now ...
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/28/trump-sacramento-and-future-white-nationalism-interview-matthew-heimbach

A violent confrontation in Sacramento, Ca., on Sunday between members of the white nationalist Traditionalist Worker Party (TWP), members of the Golden State Skins (GSS), and antifascist counter-protesters left a number of people hospitalized.

The scheduled protest, for which the TWP had secured a permit at the California State Capitol, immediately turned into a brawl and became yet another episode of political violence during this presidential election year.

Today, Hatewatch reached out to Matthew Heimbach, the head of the Traditionalist Youth Network (TYN) and the TWP, to get his perspective on what happened in Sacramento, Trump's candidacy, and the recent “Brexit” referendum where the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.
...
Are you planning to attend the Republican National Convention next month in Cleveland?

We’re planning to organize as the party [TWP], to be there, to spread our message to delegates and to be the eyes and ears there [to observe those who] have already said they’re going to burn the city down, they’re going to kill cops, they’re going to kill Trump supporters. The radical left has already said in a premeditated fashion that they are going to bring violence. They are going to bring weapons and they are going to do political intimidation. So we want to be there as a protecting force, to say you will not intimidate us, you will not force us off of our position. We will stand for our political space and we will defend it within the limits of the law.

As for the election, Trump’s candidacy has done much to energize white nationalists in the United States. What happens for your movement if Trump loses?

If Trump loses, if something were to happen at the convention, or if something were to happen in November, it’s not going to be because of the people, [it will be because of a] betrayal by the Republican establishment that cares more about Wall Street donors and international interests than their own constituents. I think it would be very clear in that case that it would be great for us. Because once people finally realize the Republican party is opposed to them, will mock them, and do everything against the things they voted for, then the only logical path for every day working families is to be able to come to groups like the Traditionalist Worker Party.

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That's the point, our forefathers did vote for a federal government and the USA wouldn't even have 13 states without that government. It almost didn't happen. All thirteen states had to compromise their wants and desires to come up with a constitution that gave all of them a reason to sign up. IMHO England stood to gain more by being a member of the EU than they can ever achieve standing alone. The English empire is long gone and will never return.

An important difference as I understand it is here in the US we can vote the scoundrels out of office and elect new ones to change the law, in the EU that is not possible as I see it.

+1

So why did all the EU countries sign up for that?!

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OMG these guys appear to be awesome at first glance!
If these guys are the real deal, then this is exactly what I've been rambling on about...

These guys vs. Sanders in a GOP vs. Dem showdown in November...

I swear to God (just an expression) I'd be out of your hair... in the US threads obviously :)

Because when you take "the crazy" out of politics then it makes sense to talk about actual... policies.

(And personally I'm not THAT interested in politics. Just severely allergic to CRAZY playing around with trillions of dollars and millions of lives.)

Sarge it is Obama that has stopped things like minimum wage , health care OR

was it the Republicans in the congress that has stopped him doing things that would have helped the average joe ?????

You all blame Obama but he has had a hostile senate and has been stopped from doing the things he wanted to do and now your all whining and blaming him when it was the Republicans in the senate that has stopped him doing the right thing .

And here we see your all whining about him but are going to vote for the very people that have stopped Obamama

My you lot need to think for yourself instead of spending to much time in the backstabbers club playing follow the leader to the bottom or the morality pile and Remember who's party has got you in the trouble that your in . BUSH not Obamama Republican not Democrate


I guess in America maybe it would be better if there was a test for IQ before you vote and a test for EQ as well fail the EQ (less than 80) and score below 100 in a IQ then you can't vote

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Darth you don't live here and I suspect that everything you know about the USA comes from your local news media, movies and what you can gleen from message boards like this. All parties have contributed to the mess we are in and Barack Obama has lead the way.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

As for Brexit it was the common people feed up with losing there jobs to immigration that Brussells forced on England that was the main concern and why they voted to get out of the E.U not "it the economy stupid" so I say again don't underestimate Hillary when it comes to the female vote. Trump may have some female supporters but nowhere near the amount that is supporting Hillary .

There is also the thought of finally having the 1st female President and that is very powerful .

Remember Obama is a Black man and how many of you thought that would not happen but the very thought of a black man in the highest office was a big draw card for the African voters . It was largely the female vote that help the prohibition mob to get that over the line . I would ignore the pollsters there rig'd

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So why did all the EU countries sign up for that?!

Gary that is not what it was when the EU was created, it morphed into what it is.
A hypothesis I have is many of the members of the EU do not have a long legacy of democratic rule so autocratic rule seems natural to them, hence the ease of it's implementation.

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Bob how !!

who got Bin laden in there first term ?

who has steded the ship from the GFC

who has tried to do something about Gun crime ?

who has tried to do something about you pitiful heath system ?

who has stopped you getting more involved with Syria and come up with a plan that is now working ?

So tell me how has Obama F-ed thing up really tell me if I only know what is on the news services ??

It's all the gossip and backstabbing that has given you the views you have about him . Wait till the healh care is repelled and you back in another war your economy completely fails and please don't whine when that happens again under the republicans just keep B/S to your self's

And stop the whining about Obamam and start telling me what exactly he has F-ed up as I can't see where that has happend

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