So do we have two "criminals" running for POTUS?

Only two? Or do you mean this time and major parties?

I did mean just this time, I should have made that clear and indicated, by concluding with, in 2016.

So do we have two "criminals" running for POTUS?

What else is new?

We have a saying in the USA, or at least the part of the USA in which I live.

The higher the office (most especially POTUS), the more applicable the saying is...

If a person is able to be elected to a position, they are not suitable for that position.

Crooked (corrupt and/or criminal) politicians? They are everywhere around here. And, from what I have seen and read in the news over the last 50 years or so, they are everywhere in the rest of the world also.

The real Elephant in the room which none of the chicken, left wing news media cares to point out:

The server was private so that there would be no public record of selling government access and influence for hundreds of thousands of dollars to be funneled into the Clinton Criminal Slush Fund.

You say that I am naive--that's what politics is all about. Payola for political favors which benefit special interest groups (governments, business sectors etc). Maybe so; but that eventually causes ripples in the proletariat who are tired of ultimately paying for these favors.

From a recent poll.

Maybe Trump or Hillary will win.
But it looks to me that most of the US voters will loose this election.

Maybe Trump or Hillary will win.
But it looks to me that most of the US voters will loose this election.

That is the problem in a nutshell. We are all screwed (in one way or another) no matter which one of these two wins.

Now then, each US voter can decide which one of these two that they consider the lesser of two evils and vote for that one...

But we should NOT have to do so.

Notice on that graphic you posted... The ONLY ones of all those categories that has a favorable view of either one of those candidates is black and Hispanic voters have a favorable view of Hillary. All the other categories (income, age, and gender) have a rather unfavorable opinion of BOTH of them.

Donald Trump has delegates to clinch GOP nomination
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/donald-trump-has-delegates-to-clinch-gop-nomination/index.html

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Donald Trump has delegates to clinch GOP nomination
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/donald-trump-has-delegates-to-clinch-gop-nomination/index.html

Maybe....

But then, GOP party leaders have to approve of each and every delagate sent to the GOP convention...

And quite a number of these GOP party leaders have been quoted as saying it didn't matter how many delegates he had, Trump wasn't gonna get it.

Its there in the rules of the GOP... All they have to do is disallow enough delegates pledged to Trump and it becomes a wide open convention that could nominate almost anyone.

Will this happen? I dunno. BUT... it remains a distinct possibility.

That would take major cojones, and would certainly destroy the GOP.

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That would take major cojones, and would certainly destroy the GOP.

It is called the credentials committee and Drumpf don't got supporters on it. I'm so sorry your paperwork wasn't submitted on time, your name was left off the list, ...

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That would take major cojones, and would certainly destroy the GOP.

The GOP has already been destroyed. By Trump. The Democrat party is just about destroyed as well.

We are in the middle of a MAJOR party realignment, of both voting blocs and policies.

What parties rise from the ashes remains to be seen, but they will most certainly both be different that they were. The names will probably remain the same, but the voter blocs and policies will be different to at least a certain extent.

While I may not agree with ALL of the conclusions/statements in this article, it is (pardon the phrase) dead on the money on most of it.

Hear, hear!

Lovely snippet.

Not to mention that calling Enron "fictitious" is pure genius. Also shows the guy knows a thing or two beyond partisan neo-mantra.

That would take major cojones, and would certainly destroy the GOP.

The GOP has already been destroyed. By Trump. The Democrat party is just about destroyed as well.

We are in the middle of a MAJOR party realignment, of both voting blocs and policies.

What parties rise from the ashes remains to be seen, but they will most certainly both be different that they were. The names will probably remain the same, but the voter blocs and policies will be different to at least a certain extent.

Dunno. I mean yeah sure it's a possibility but I hope they both choose to reset back to their core values.

That way I could leave these forums:)

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On another note: I still see there's not a poll out there that doesn't show Bernie doing a lot better than Hillary against Trump.

An update from my imaginary crystal ball: Like we watched Hillary adopt a lot of what Sanders actually believes in and pass it off as her own (and that she's felt that way on whatever since forever)... We'll have to painfully watch her do the same with a lot of what Trump is yammering on about come June and all the way through to November.

Mr. & Mrs. Flip-flop ;)
What a nightmare.

That would take major cojones, and would certainly destroy the GOP.

The GOP has already been destroyed. By Trump. The Democrat party is just about destroyed as well.

We are in the middle of a MAJOR party realignment, of both voting blocs and policies.

What parties rise from the ashes remains to be seen, but they will most certainly both be different that they were. The names will probably remain the same, but the voter blocs and policies will be different to at least a certain extent.

Dunno. I mean yeah sure it's a possibility but I hope they both choose to reset back to their core values.

That way I could leave these forums:)

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On another note: I still see there's not a poll out there that doesn't show Bernie doing a lot better than Hillary against Trump.

An update from my imaginary crystal ball: Like we watched Hillary adopt a lot of what Sanders actually believes in and pass it off as her own (and that she's felt that way on whatever since forever)... We'll have to painfully watch her do the same with a lot of what Trump is yammering on about come June and all the way through to November.

Mr. & Mrs. Flip-flop ;)
What a nightmare.

But that is just it.... The Democrats and the Republicans don't have any 'core values'.

They both have flip-floped at least once during my lifetime, and many times before that.

They are more like competing social clubs than they are political parties.

When I was a child, the Republicans were the liberals, pushing minority civil rights. The Democrats were conservatives, and quite racist. More than one of the Democrat elected officials in the US Government were high officials in the Ku Klux Klan. Enter the election of 1964 (Johnson (D) vs. Goldwater (R)). Johnson took the Democrat party towards civil rights and liberalism, and Goldwater took the Republicans towards conservatism and against 'civil rights legislation'.

Johnson won. Johnson's predecessor in office, Kennedy (also D) pushed through some rather significant tax cuts to the tax rates he inherited from his predecessor, Eisenhower (a Republican). Eisenhower (R) famously warned us about the 'Military-Industrial Complex'. Kennedy expanded it.

Well, each election cycle we have some minor shifting and realignment between the Democrats and the Republicans. But once every 20 to 40 years (5 to 10 election cycles) or so we usually have a MAJOR shift and realignment between them.

We are in the middle (towards the end, actually) of another MAJOR shift.

More news on Trump and his Mafia linked friends. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/exclusive-russian-mob-linked-fraudster-a-key-player-in-donald-tr/

Trump's right on this one. I'd looove to watch this:

Trump, Sanders explore staging unusual presidential debate

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The Democrats and the Republicans don't have any 'core values'.

Kong, you're probably a lot more right than wrong. I'll trust your judgment on this one.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd like to see a few more "Bernies" out there from all parts of the political spectrum. You know, people who actually believe what they're saying and know why they're saying it. Which is pretty much the opposite of every other candidate, red or blue, so far.

I know, I know... you'll all mostly say I'm dreaming. And I very well could be. Thing is, I'm not at all the "dreamer" type. I can't shake the feeling that this mess is getting too big to get swept under the metaphorical rug. Be nice to see a few more grown-ups acting... grown-up.

But that is just it.... The Democrats and the Republicans don't have any 'core values'.

They both have flip-floped at least once during my lifetime, and many times before that.

They are more like competing social clubs than they are political parties.

When I was a child, the Republicans were the liberals, pushing minority civil rights. The Democrats were conservatives, and quite racist. More than one of the Democrat elected officials in the US Government were high officials in the Ku Klux Klan. Enter the election of 1964 (Johnson (D) vs. Goldwater (R)). Johnson took the Democrat party towards civil rights and liberalism, and Goldwater took the Republicans towards conservatism and against 'civil rights legislation'.

Johnson won. Johnson's predecessor in office, Kennedy (also D) pushed through some rather significant tax cuts to the tax rates he inherited from his predecessor, Eisenhower (a Republican). Eisenhower (R) famously warned us about the 'Military-Industrial Complex'. Kennedy expanded it.

Well, each election cycle we have some minor shifting and realignment between the Democrats and the Republicans. But once every 20 to 40 years (5 to 10 election cycles) or so we usually have a MAJOR shift and realignment between them.

We are in the middle (towards the end, actually) of another MAJOR shift.

Well, MK you and I may be the only ones here who weren't so stoned out of our minds in the 60's that we remember how different the parties were.

You did miss what George Wallace did and how that tore apart a party. (He tried to get Goldwater to pick him as veep!) He pulled the Dixiecrats out of the Democrats and took their vote and their loyalty. Over the next few years the Dixiecrats floundered before they decided to become republican power brokers with they money. In the last few years they have joined with other fundamentalist WASP elements to form the Tea block.

Next election, not this one, that Tea block of Dixiecrats and fundamentalist WASP will be split off by some third party person. I say this because Drumpf is not one of them. He does deals. The fundamentalist WASP will not be able to stand that he does deals, or even talks to "the enemy." Drumpf is practical and will want to actually govern, that means compromise, the one thing a fundamentalist WASP refuses because their belief is god given and not subject to the reality of getting stuff done.

It will take a decade or two but the non-dixiecrat non-fundamentalist WASP elements of the republicans may join with elements of the LP. What comes out of that may not endorse drug use, but it will be fiscal conservative, social liberal and have a clear core value.

The Tea might get renamed the Christian Party and be extreme social conservative and close to neutral fiscal.

Less clear is what will happen to the Democrats. They may not move much and remain social liberal, fiscal liberal. Eventually the Christian Party will find itself out of influence again and want to rejoin the system, perhaps into the democrats changing them back to social conservatives.


In any case it looks like Drumpf vs. Billary. Maybe the citizens of the world will get lucky and at a debate they will be taken out by ISIL and both parties will have to go back to the drawing board or it would be Palin vs. Warren???!!!

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/22/475172438/donald-trump-and-george-wallace-riding-the-rage
"Morris Dees SPLC" wrote:

I’m thoroughly disgusted — and, frankly, worried — about the xenophobic rhetoric and the violence in the presidential campaign. I have no doubt that the ugly tone in the presidential campaign will embolden racists to commit more violence.

Having lived in Alabama all my life, I can vividly recall how the racist language used by Governor George Wallace incited his white supremacist followers to violence.

Right now, I’m deeply alarmed about history repeating itself.

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Well, MK you and I may be the only ones here who weren't so stoned out of our minds in the 60's that we remember how different the parties were.

You did miss what George Wallace did and how that tore apart a party. (He tried to get Goldwater to pick him as veep!) He pulled the Dixiecrats out of the Democrats and took their vote and their loyalty. Over the next few years the Dixiecrats floundered before they decided to become republican power brokers with they money. In the last few years they have joined with other fundamentalist WASP elements to form the Tea block.

Next election, not this one, that Tea block of Dixiecrats and fundamentalist WASP will be split off by some third party person. I say this because Drumpf is not one of them. He does deals. The fundamentalist WASP will not be able to stand that he does deals, or even talks to "the enemy." Drumpf is practical and will want to actually govern, that means compromise, the one thing a fundamentalist WASP refuses because their belief is god given and not subject to the reality of getting stuff done.

It will take a decade or two but the non-dixiecrat non-fundamentalist WASP elements of the republicans may join with elements of the LP. What comes out of that may not endorse drug use, but it will be fiscal conservative, social liberal and have a clear core value.

The Tea might get renamed the Christian Party and be extreme social conservative and close to neutral fiscal.

Less clear is what will happen to the Democrats. They may not move much and remain social liberal, fiscal liberal. Eventually the Christian Party will find itself out of influence again and want to rejoin the system, perhaps into the democrats changing them back to social conservatives.


In any case it looks like Drumpf vs. Billary. Maybe the citizens of the world will get lucky and at a debate they will be taken out by ISIL and both parties will have to go back to the drawing board or it would be Palin vs. Warren???!!!

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/22/475172438/donald-trump-and-george-wallace-riding-the-rage
"Morris Dees SPLC" wrote:

I’m thoroughly disgusted — and, frankly, worried — about the xenophobic rhetoric and the violence in the presidential campaign. I have no doubt that the ugly tone in the presidential campaign will embolden racists to commit more violence.

Having lived in Alabama all my life, I can vividly recall how the racist language used by Governor George Wallace incited his white supremacist followers to violence.

Right now, I’m deeply alarmed about history repeating itself.

You talk about the Dixiecraps and the TeePees frequently. I thought I would mention a few things that one does not hear about so often.

Trump is winning, and I believe SHALL win our next election due to one flaming reason.

All of our politicians have for many years, ignored the wishes of the general populace that they are elected to represent. And once elected, they all go their merry, money grubbing, self serving way with their middle fingers held high to those that elected them.

Every election cycle, 'we, the people' go to the polls and vote once again, with the hope that 'this candidate' shall be the one who finally listens to us and keeps their promises.

But......it never happens. This cycle has repeated itself for so many years now, that when a guy like Trump comes around, and people REALLY believe that he is going to tear the limbs off of the status quo establishment, we get really excited about it.

Not everybody is excited about Trump himself, but they are about the chance that for ONCE in our lifetime, we have a candidate that really might screw the politicians that have screwed us for soooooooooooooooooo long.

There is I believe, an 85% chance...or probability...that Trump is GOING to be our next president. I think that unless all judicial prudence in Washington is totally thrown to the wind, Hillary is going to be indicted and on her way to prison before the election takes place. If not, we are indeed in deep doo doo.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

All of our politicians have for many years, ignored the wishes of the general populace that they are elected to represent. And once elected, they all go their merry, money grubbing, self serving way with their middle fingers held high to those that elected them.

Trump's anti-establishment right now, but I just have a funny feeling if he gets in there, he's going to get nice and cozy.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Don't they all!