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Message 1718721 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 20:18:03 UTC - in response to Message 1718609.  

Is suicide a sane person's response to being fired?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/26/us/virginia-shooting-wdbj/

Or as someone on Gawker pointed out, the second amendment outguns the first.
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Message 1718730 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 20:29:55 UTC - in response to Message 1718637.  

And living in a world where some or all the rest of the world is enslaved by their tyrannical governments from within would be ... ?

Something the true American Patriot shall never allow to happen ever again.
We choose to remain at the ready should political events ever require us to take up arms and defend our freedoms on our domestic soil, if need be.
That is prudent, and what the founding fathers intended.


Yes, this is what many (most?) fail to understand. That was the intention of the Founding Fathers.

2 Examples.


Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops.


-- James Madison, primary Author of the US Constitution, Author of the Bill of Rights, and 4th President of the United States written in Federalist #46

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_46.html

and

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.


-- Thomas Jefferson (Author of the Declaration of Independence and 3rd President of the United States, in a letter to William Stephens Smith).

So, yes, msattler, I very much agree with you. And the historical evidence supports it.

Here we have two of the most influential Founding Fathers, both of them the primary authors of one of our most fundamental of founding documents, and both from opposing sides of the political fence. Madison being one of the leaders of the Federalists (those in favor of the Constitution) and Jefferson an anti-Federalist who later founded the first 'Republican' party (also known as the Democratic-Republican party). Each one supports an armed public precisely for the purpose of keeping the Federal Government in line. Here you see it in their own words, each one written prior to the Final Ratification of the US Constitution.

A LOT more people need to recognize this around here, even a number of them US Citizens. An armed public able to revolt is part of our political system. Study History, people!
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Message 1718734 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 20:33:13 UTC - in response to Message 1718730.  

An armed public able to revolt is part of our political system. Study History, people!

Major, LOL the confederate south sure proved your point
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Message 1718742 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 20:47:39 UTC - in response to Message 1718730.  
Last modified: 26 Aug 2015, 20:48:17 UTC

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.


-- Thomas Jefferson (Author of the Declaration of Independence and 3rd President of the United States, in a letter to William Stephens Smith).

That is quite literally the worst advice about statecraft someone could have ever given. Really, a rebellion every few decades? Oh big deal, that just costs the lives of a bunch of peasants, who cares right? Thats the guy you admire, someone who talks so flippantly about the lives of other people? Because you can be sure that people like Jefferson will never be found at the front line, no they get their cannon fodder from someone else.

Sheer sociopathy aside, just think about what would happen if the US had actually followed his advice of a few armed rebellions every few decades. As weapons technology progresses and becomes more destructive, so to would the cost of such a rebellion. Death tolls would rise, more cities would be shot to rubble, the economy would stagnate as it is either getting disrupted by war or has to be geared to support a war. Well, just look at places that really do have a rebellion or a civil war every few decades and see how well they aren't doing.

Also, while Jefferson seems to be under the delusion that it would be a good thing if governments fear their people, in reality what that creates is a dictatorship. Because if there is one type of government that fears people its a dictatorship. And you know what dictatorships do? They do everything in their power to make people fear the government more, so it remains submissive. So instead of preserving liberty, Jefferson's idea would have accelerated the process of creating an authoritarian state in less than a decade. I guess its a good thing then that people didn't listen to Jefferson's advice and there has only been one civil war in the United States.
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Message 1718743 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 20:49:42 UTC - in response to Message 1718721.  

Is suicide a sane person's response to being fired?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/26/us/virginia-shooting-wdbj/

Or as someone on Gawker pointed out, the second amendment outguns the first.

Someone on Gawker doesn't understand the first amendment. It is freedom from government censorship, not freedom from private censorship. If the private censor pig was restricted then the part about religion would be useless. In short, speech has consequences.

Now are you all ready to discuss the actions of this gay black man?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339
In the 23-page document faxed to ABC News, the writer says “MY NAME IS BRYCE WILLIAMS” and his legal name is Vester Lee Flanagan II. He writes what triggered today’s carnage was his reaction to the racism of the Charleston church shooting:

“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”

“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."

It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, “As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE …(deleted)!!!” He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
...
“The church shooting was the tipping point…but my anger has been building steadily...I’ve been a human powder keg for a while…just waiting to go BOOM!!!!”

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Message 1718790 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 21:55:05 UTC - in response to Message 1718730.  

And if I may state so, our current president is the best affirmation of just why these things were written down so many years ago.

And, if I may also state so, he is pushing the limit on what the well armed populace might endure. He has knowingly and meaningfully corrupted and abused just about everything the constitution of the United States was meant to prevent.
The closest thing to a dictator that somehow escaped scrutiny and got to the White House.

If this were the START of his second term, it might well come to civil war to correct it.

The guns are holstered right now, waiting for his term to expire.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1718792 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 21:59:30 UTC

+ a lot more than one......

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1718817 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 22:36:26 UTC - in response to Message 1718790.  

And if I may state so, our current president is the best affirmation of just why these things were written down so many years ago.

And, if I may also state so, he is pushing the limit on what the well armed populace might endure. He has knowingly and meaningfully corrupted and abused just about everything the constitution of the United States was meant to prevent.

Such as? No really, what did he do that the constitution supposedly won't allow you to do? Obamacare? Well, the SCOTUS said it was constitutional, and they happen to be the ones deciding what the constitution does and does not allow for. Now, what else did he do? Hmm, a bunch of executive orders, which are all also perfectly legal. Gay marriage? Again, SCOTUS ruled that was all constitutional, and Obama didn't even push for legislation supporting it.

Really, if Obama has perverted the constitution so much, then why has the Supreme Court consistently ruled in his favor on nearly everything he took to court?

No, what we see here is that you and other conservatives are angry because the relevant authorities happen to understand the constitution in a different way (and also a lot better) than you. And all this talk about how you are almost going to start a civil war is just frustration and impotence coming from the fact that the world is moving on in a direction you don't like.

I should add that if you were to actually start an armed revolution, not only would you belong to a minority of Americans who would support it, you would also be the tyrants as the aim of such a revolution is little more than to impose your view on politics on the rest of the country, bypassing all the build in checks and balances present in the government.
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Message 1718818 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 22:40:05 UTC - in response to Message 1718817.  
Last modified: 26 Aug 2015, 22:40:47 UTC

Uhh...the SCOTUS was wrong..............even a supreme court can be wrong.
And at least two of them were appointed by Obama to disrupt rational thinking.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1718872 - Posted: 27 Aug 2015, 0:47:53 UTC - in response to Message 1718863.  

I mentioned a bit about my background to establish the fact that I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday, and to state the fact that I come by my perspective honestly.
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Message 1718994 - Posted: 27 Aug 2015, 7:08:12 UTC - in response to Message 1718818.  
Last modified: 27 Aug 2015, 7:12:25 UTC

Uhh...the SCOTUS was wrong..............even a supreme court can be wrong.
And at least two of them were appointed by Obama to disrupt rational thinking.

Yes, they can be wrong. But the remedy is not to start shooting until everyone who disagrees with you is gone.

See, this is the problem with the 2nd amendment. You want to use it fight government tyranny, but what exactly is government tyranny? Well according to conservatives government tyranny is giving people better access to healthcare and giving marriage equality to gay people. But according to the majority of people in the country, thats stuff that they feel the government should have done a long time ago. Would you really want to start an armed revolution over something most people want and which has been created entirely according to the rules and procedures of a democratic society?
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Message 1719604 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 13:54:47 UTC
Last modified: 28 Aug 2015, 13:58:23 UTC

For those that think they live in a free country and then say they need a gun today in Australia where free freedom is the porple had a protest and 3 hrs later the Government back'd down .

At aprox 10am this morning the Government of Victoria announced operation Fortitude .
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-border-force-to-patrol-melbourne-cbd-as-part-of-antisocial-behaviour-operation-20150828-gj9qtd.html

The link is about this . Come all you that think you live in a free country come and see how it , real freedom works

The new Border Force set up by the Abbott government stated that they where to deploy officers on street corners and where going to question anybody that they came across and you will be ask to prove you are a citizen of the country or a legal visitor .

within 2 hrs of this announcement protesters starting filling the main Train station and streets calling for it to be stopped and that WE Australia will not put up with this .

By 2pm the police and Border force had to retract there statements and call the whole operation off.

NO GUNS NEEDED only the people protesting in large numbers and very quickly organised was enough .

But some live in a dream world and will never get it .

Guns kill they do not stop dictators and just because it's in a constitution does not mean you are safe from Dictators .

So save your B/s lies and tell a reporter ....oh right the reporter was shot and kill'd and so was the camera man but I spose if they had a gun the camera man would have been able to protect himself , if he had 3 arms and eyes in the back and side's of his head to see the man and the reporter would have saved them self if she also had eyes in the side of her head to see him while looking at the camera .

And sane people don't kill only the crazy one's do .

mmmmm hold that thought , can a sane man turn nutter for just losing a job ?

"Na he was always crazy ...."

Oh my god how stupid people are , anybody can be a crazy man and very quickly when life craps on you and you become depressed but being depressed does not mean you are crazy even if you just turn around one day and say "F"it grab a gun and start killing .

But don't worry you can fix the crazy thing just build heaps of nut houses and put everyone that threatens people in them , wont cost you much and will solve the problem and you can keep your guns ....

WAKE UP YOU $$$$$$$ %%%%%%%%%
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Message 1719611 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 14:09:28 UTC - in response to Message 1719581.  

Since the Clyde always, 100% of the time questions the validity of all view points that differ from his I thought he might respect another's view, silly of me to think that.
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Message 1719617 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 14:27:06 UTC - in response to Message 1719612.  

The Clyde has spoken and said what he always says.
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Message 1719627 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 14:47:52 UTC

[Ignore Mode Temporarily Disabled]

Glenn,you are 'trolling' in the wrong pool. Those who haven't read your rants before may be interested or drawn in but by and large you are ignored by those wishing to have an intelligent exchange of ideas.

Sorry dude, nobody's going to take the bait. Go argue with a rock. ":D)

[Ignore Mode Enabled]

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1719638 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 15:24:25 UTC - in response to Message 1719618.  

not on gun control
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Message 1719639 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 15:26:15 UTC - in response to Message 1719627.  

Sorry dude, nobody's going to take the bait. Go argue with a rock. ":D)


Dude I am , you need to cut that moss growing on your back it's getting long .

So much for ignore mode then :-)
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Message 1719650 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 15:46:24 UTC - in response to Message 1719631.  

It might be precisely because of our second amendment that our society will *not* end up in some extreme position such as... (godwin's law.) What's better for society? A couple of crazies who occasionally go around shooting up malls, schools and news reporters or our whole society ending up deciding genocide makes sense (as planned parenthood is well on the way to justify


This one statement shows what you are all about tynnany

Only those with your attitude oppress others by means of force . No worry's you keep reading your dream history as it's the only one that counts . Hitler didn't come to power buy means of a gun and French storm'd the bastille with pitch forks shovels and axes not guns

So you's can't even use a excuse of the army has better weapons so we do too.

Must be good to have such a distorted view of history but then what can you expect when local school boards run by churches try and teach intelligent Design as well as other B/S lies
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Message 1719862 - Posted: 29 Aug 2015, 1:55:32 UTC - in response to Message 1719631.  


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes , former assistant secretary of state just released an opinion on the status of our government. He has a pretty good explanation about our apparently imminent downfall. The only problem with his opinion is that he omits our return to greatness because of the foundational pillars ensconced in our constitution.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/27/the-political-strategy-of-mobocractic-tyranny/


Here is another recent opinion of Dr. Keyes.

http://loyaltoliberty.com/we-the-people-are-the-ones-the-elitist-factions-partisan-sham-aims-to-corrupt/


‘We the people” are the ones the Elitist faction’s partisan sham aims to corrupt
Not just our officials

by Alan Keyes on July 31, 2015

[In response to my WND article today I wrote a reply that may be of interest to my readers here.]

THE COMMENT

This piece is shallow opinions. It never talks about whether Trump can fix USA’s woes. Assuming he can, he is a man who can get our agendas done. So where’s the problem?

He can create jobs, feed families, make America great again. In other words, you don’t want USA to be great again? If you believe he can make USA great again, where’s the problem?

Amnesty? He plans to make the Illegals to go right path, go through the process, is that wrong? He wants the bad apples to be thrown out, or you hope to retain bad apples in USA? Its madness to oppose him for getting the good ones to contribute to USA, for economy, for prosperity and to be Great again.

People sometime get into thinking so complicated, not realizing simple things are required, and “”practical solutions”. Intellectual discourse, and lofty thinking is no use for day to day life.

MY REPLY

The ‘right-wing’ socialist ideologues Hitler and Mussolini promised people in their countries these same things. And in important respects, they delivered on their promises. That’s the significance of the now proverbial notion that in Italy Mussolini “made the trains run on time”, which is to say, he improved the organization and efficiency of Italy’s economic life. Hitler worked with Germany’s leading industrialists to do the same, and the effective war machine Germany created attests to the fact that he succeeded in important respects.

Their success is what made some elements of the elites, in England and the United States, including people in the would-be dynastic lines of the Kennedy and Bush families into admirers of these dictators. Now Trump comes along and many people, fed up with the conniving treachery of the elitist faction quislings in the GOP, are falling fall into un-American frame of mind that feeds their opportunities for power.

I call it un-American because it’s the frame of mind that forgets the simple fact that, by their oath, the Constitution makes support for constitutional, republican form of government the first duty of those who are supposed to represent and serve us in our Federal and State governments. They aren’t hired to run our businesses and/or substitute government responsibility and action for the our responsibility as individuals, families, and voluntary associates in faith and other organized communities that aim to uphold justice, liberty and other expressions of our common good as a people.

The United States was founded on premises that reject absolute monarchy, no matter how benevolent it pretends to be, even if it calls itself by some name less odious than tyranny. More even than at the time of the Founding, we have reason to know that giving unbridled power to anyone, however alluring their promises, however worthy their goals, is apt to end quite, quite literally, in atrocious crimes against humanity, when the latter is understood, in terms of the right, rights and decent liberty with which God endows the title of humanity with meaning. That is, of course, the way we Americans are supposed to understand it.

Though we often forget it, every citizen of the United States has a duty (in Latin, officium, from which, the words “office” and “official” are derived) to perform as a voting member of the sovereign body of the people. In this sense, qualified voters hold an office which they come into as one of the appurtenances of the title of humanity conferred upon them by their Creator. This office requires that they exercise (implement, carry on) the actions and activities, that sustain and perpetuate human nature, i.e., the way of being that accords with the information by which the Creator provides for the existence of humanity. This is the exercise of right that gives rise to the unalienable rights that just governments are instituted to secure.

The Constitution of the United States was framed in light of this understanding of just government. Our common and mutual commitment to the exercise of right, as endowed by God, is what defines, and therefore identifies, the citizen body of the people of the United States. The people we elect to government take the oath they do because it is first and foremost their duty to represent us in that commitment- not to “make the trains run on time”, providing jobs, food, clothing, etc., in equal measure to all our people; but rather to make sure that, with equal justice, every person is secure to undertake the actions that, by nature God requires of them for their own benefit and that of humanity as such.

These are the unalienable rights referred to, and partially listed, in America’s Declaration of Independence. If we back candidates who violate (i.e., prevent or interfere with the exercise of) these rights, we not only contravene our duty (office), we deny the authority that confers it upon us. If we do so because they promise us material benefits in exchange for our vote, we are literally agreeing to accept bribes in exchange for dereliction of duty.

Tragically, this bribery is now the sustaining premise of the sham partisan process controlled by the elitist faction. Donald Trump, and all other candidate touted by the elitist faction media, define their campaigns of self-promotion in terms of this bribery. This is why it makes sense to say that the twin-party sham is inherently, intrinsically corrupt and corrupting. And the most important target for corruption are not the elected officials we rightly criticize and decry, but we, the people, who have allowed the political process to become a competition in tax financed bribery, leading inevitably to the financial and moral bankruptcy of our nation.


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