I went back to the Susskind site (theoreticalminimum.org) since hardcopies overlap on my desk and are difficult to retreive. It seems that Hawking had said that radiation escaping a black hole, the so called Hawking radiation, carried no information about the matter fallen in the black hole. He said that not only God played dice, negating a famous Einstein dict, but that He cast the dice in places not visible. Susskind objected to this together with Juan Maldacena, and later Hawking admitted he had been wrong. But they were talking about black holes, not ordinary matter like the one we deal with every day.
Tullio

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Perhaps the information is transformed so that it is no longer useable in it's original form; just like falling water driving a turbine. The original energy is no longer useable in it's original form until it moves to a different gravity well.

We are all a quiver like an infinity of wobbly jelly!

It's a side effect from using Linux Martin :-)))

LOL!

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I have been using Windows 8.1 since I found it in a HP PC I bought. Of course I installed VirtualBox on it and am running all Scientific Linux programs from CERN on it as Virtual Machines. Now they say Microsoft will send me a copy of Windows 10 on July 29 and I am just curious.
Tullio

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There is a lecture at Cambridge University center of Quantum Computing tomorrow. Here is its abstract:
The quantization of energy is of fundamental importance for quantum thermodynamics, even for macroscopic systems. The fragility of quantum coherence naturally makes it less so. However the scale of control of the dynamics of small systems in current experiments is such that understanding basic constraints on how quantum coherences can evolve/be manipulated in a thermodynamic setting is of interest. I will discuss a few such constraints that go beyond free-energy type relations, although the most general form of the problem remains open.
Tullio

I hope they will discuss this:)

Some scientists Think that even time comes in Quantas...
The quantum World is weird.

Here it is.
Thursday 11 June 2015
Terry Rudolph (Imperial College London)
Quantum Quantum Thermodynamics
http://www.qi.damtp.cam.ac.uk/

The discovery that quantum physics allows fundamentally new modes of information processing has required the existing theories of computation, information and cryptography to be superseded by their quantum generalisations

Quantum Quantum? What is that?

Affiliated Faculty
Toby Cubitt Royal Society University Research Fellow and Title A Fellow, Churchill College

Toby Cubitt:) or is it spelled Toby Qubit...

Janne, stop waffling out of your depth please.

Waffling? Is that a English word?
Boy, do you have a way to communicate in your own language.
Give me a break.

It's energy that cannot be created or destroyed--only transformed.

That is correct.

Is it? How do you know that?

It's energy that cannot be created or destroyed--only transformed.

That is correct.

Is it? How do you know that?

Because William just told him, and I am pretty sure William knows his high school science very well.

He certainly doesn't need people telling him he is correct, especially people who don't know their high school science very well. :)

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Reality Internet Personality

It's energy that cannot be created or destroyed--only transformed.

That is correct.

Is it? How do you know that?

Because William just told him, and I am pretty sure William knows his high school science very well.

He certainly doesn't need people telling him he is correct, especially people who don't know their high school science very well. :)

How is William?
Anyway. Most of the scientists are accepting the Standard Model.
That universe was created in a Planck time period.
At something like 10 exp -38 seconds all our energy was created together with time and space and soon create mass.

It's energy that cannot be created or destroyed--only transformed.

That is correct.

Is it? How do you know that?

Because William just told him, and I am pretty sure William knows his high school science very well.

He certainly doesn't need people telling him he is correct, especially people who don't know their high school science very well. :)

@ES99 - I went to a proper English Technical school, not some USA high School. There I was taught this

In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant—it is said to be conserved over time. Energy can be neither created nor be destroyed, but it transforms from one form to another, for instance chemical energy can be converted to kinetic energy in the explosion of a stick of dynamite.

I strongly suggest that you modify your remarks in future.

@William -sorry about that. Gravity wells are an interesting idea, any further links to that?

I must highlight this.
Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed in an isolated system.
You dont teach thermodynamics in high school.
Now what is an isolated system?
Our observable universe is.
But what about outside it?

Zeroth law of thermodynamics.
Two bodies in thermal contact with each other assume the same temperature by the heat energy in the warmer body flows to the colder body.
I Think the unobservable universe are much colder than the observable.
Doesn't that mean that energy are created outside our universe?

dS > 0

Jan al-Swedi

when you "borrow" energy from an outside system (such as in an air conditioner) you are not creating energy--simply moving it from one place to another.

when you "borrow" energy from an outside system (such as in an air conditioner) you are not creating energy--simply moving it from one place to another.

I was thinking outside of the box:)

when you "borrow" energy from an outside system (such as in an air conditioner) you are not creating energy--simply moving it from one place to another.

The energy's vehicle. Photons, gluons, Z bosons and W bosons are the elementary particles responsible for that.

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

when you "borrow" energy from an outside system (such as in an air conditioner) you are not creating energy--simply moving it from one place to another.

The energy's vehicle. Photons, gluons, Z bosons and W bosons are the elementary particles responsible for that.

Yes. The energy Carriers.
Only one left to find. The illusive graviton.

Remember it was physicist Steven Weinberg who became the discoverer of the W and Z particles. He eventually received the Nobel price for his work.

Because of this discovery, three of the four fundamental forces of nature could be more or less merged into one, with only gravity still left.

The only reason gravity has yet to be merged into the other three forces, or vice versa, is the fact that there has yet to be found a particle which is responsible for gravity.

The graviton is still a hypothetical particle and its existence has yet to be proven. Unlike bosons, where several are known, the same does not currently go when it comes to gravity. Possibly our increasing knowledge about dark matter and dark energy will one day solve this problem, but for now we are still left in the dark when it comes to this.

I feel sure that we will find gravity waves once we put our interferometers out in space. This may lead to a duality in our thinking such as we ascribe a disturbance in the electo-magnetic field to have a wave/particle duality.

I think the real struggle in a GUT theory is getting the math to work. Quantum-loop gravity is said to be a promising route for achieving this unification. I don't know about this field however.

30 years ago during a Bell Labs seminar I heard the guru Michael Green from Queen Mary College predict that string theory would lead to the Grand Unified Theory in just a few months.

Apparently the math was more difficult than imagined at that time.

It's energy that cannot be created or destroyed--only transformed.

That is correct.

Is it? How do you know that?

Because William just told him, and I am pretty sure William knows his high school science very well.

He certainly doesn't need people telling him he is correct, especially people who don't know their high school science very well. :)

@ES99 - I went to a proper English Technical school, not some USA high School. There I was taught this

In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant—it is said to be conserved over time. Energy can be neither created nor be destroyed, but it transforms from one form to another, for instance chemical energy can be converted to kinetic energy in the explosion of a stick of dynamite.

I strongly suggest that you modify your remarks in future.

@William -sorry about that. Gravity wells are an interesting idea, any further links to that?

I must highlight this.
Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed in an isolated system.
You dont teach thermodynamics in high school.
Now what is an isolated system?
Our observable universe is.
But what about outside it?

Zeroth law of thermodynamics.
Two bodies in thermal contact with each other assume the same temperature by the heat energy in the warmer body flows to the colder body.
I Think the unobservable universe are much colder than the observable.
Doesn't that mean that energy are created outside our universe?

dS > 0

Jan al-Swedi

yeah, but our Universe is FLAT: http://www.space.com/24309-shape-of-the-universe.html
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/our-solar-system/103-the-universe/cosmology-and-the-big-bang/geometry-of-space-time/600-why-is-the-universe-flat-and-not-spherical-advanced

so no, our Universe is not a closed system! ;)

when you "borrow" energy from an outside system (such as in an air conditioner) you are not creating energy--simply moving it from one place to another.

I was thinking outside of the box:)

think of our Universe as a refrigerator...it's cold inside @ d expense of d outside refrigerator! ;)

even energies can go from one point to the other...from outside our Universe, to whitin... ;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

What about a flat Universe ??

I think that we could measure this. I think that it is curved; and over a very long base we may see that a right triangle has a small amount other than 180 degrees.

What about a flat Universe ??
I think that we could measure this. I think that it is curved; and over a very long base we may see that a right triangle has a small amount other than 180
degrees.

NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) measured background fluctuations in an effort to determine whether the universe is open or closed. In 2013, scientists announced that the universe was known to be flat with only a 0.4 percent margin of error.
Thats very flat to me.
And the triangle measured was huge.