Astronomers discover largest known structure in the universe is ... a big hole

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Message 1667791 - Posted: 20 Apr 2015, 22:23:53 UTC

Maybe another universe?

Astronomers have discovered what they say is the largest known structure in the universe: an incredibly big hole.

The “supervoid”, as it is known, is a spherical blob 1.8 billion light years across that is distinguished by its unusual emptiness.

István Szapudi, who led the work at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, described the object as possibly “the largest individual structure ever identified by humanity”.

Its existence only emerged thanks to a targeted astronomical survey, which confirmed that around 10,000 galaxies were “missing” from the part of the sky it sits in.


An earlier image from the Planck telescope shows the Cold Spot, circled. Photograph: ESA and the Planck Collaboration

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/apr/20/astronomers-discover-largest-known-structure-in-the-universe-is-a-big-hole
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Message 1667809 - Posted: 20 Apr 2015, 23:04:00 UTC
Last modified: 20 Apr 2015, 23:08:14 UTC

alien intergalactic war. or result of a catastrophic experiment like seeing how many legos could be flushed down the space toilet before it exploded.

well, after reading the article and related articles, seems like the media are just using sensational language and headlines again. it's only 20% less dense than the average density of the rest of the universe or something. not really a "big hole." and not super surprising to cosmologists/astronomers, according to the article. however, always interesting to read about new discoveries.
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Message 1667952 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 6:20:22 UTC - in response to Message 1667809.  

alien intergalactic war. or result of a catastrophic experiment like seeing how many legos could be flushed down the space toilet before it exploded.

well, after reading the article and related articles, seems like the media are just using sensational language and headlines again. it's only 20% less dense than the average density of the rest of the universe or something. not really a "big hole." and not super surprising to cosmologists/astronomers, according to the article. however, always interesting to read about new discoveries.


Yes, the media does use sensational language. :) Everything must be proven.
But? The “supervoid”, as it is known, is a spherical blob 1.8 billion light years across that is distinguished by its unusual emptiness.
The above 1.8 billion light years blows my mind. There is much we don't know about the universe.
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Message 1667983 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 8:53:39 UTC

Can we play Golf in it, for the 18th hole? :D

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Message 1667994 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 10:00:51 UTC - in response to Message 1667952.  

Could be that the missing galaxies were swept out by a rather large black hole that may eventually eat up the entire universe.
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Message 1668000 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 10:33:31 UTC

Would we even know when a black hole was getting ready to swallow us? I mean that seriously.
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1668015 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 11:44:57 UTC - in response to Message 1667994.  

Could be that the missing galaxies were swept out by a rather large black hole that may eventually eat up the entire universe.

Well, even though we know that Black holes can lower the temperature of surrounding area...& the bigger the Black hole, the lower the temperature...
But Black hole would attract more material to itself...

Make there was a Black hole, which evaporated?
Or it that Big hole a new universe phenomenon?
;)

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Message 1668162 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 22:05:02 UTC

i just watched one of the ASU Origins Project talks from February 2014, and Brian Schmidt pointed out the cold spot on a presentation slide, same background microwave diagram. so i'm not sure what's new from the article. maybe the new thing is the measurement of how much fewer galaxies are in the "cold spot" compared to the rest of the universe?
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Message 1668562 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 19:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 1667791.  
Last modified: 22 Apr 2015, 19:19:17 UTC

Maybe another universe?


It was Laura Mersini-Houghton who predicted a multiverse.
The Cold Spot from the WMAP Picture is like a birthmark when our universe was connected to other universes in the beginning like some bubbles next to each others.

http://iai.tv/video/how-to-find-a-multiverse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Mersini-Houghton
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Message 1668577 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 20:06:18 UTC

I somewhat agree with Janne. Many local universes floating around the main universe.
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Message 1668581 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 20:16:06 UTC - in response to Message 1668577.  
Last modified: 22 Apr 2015, 20:43:18 UTC

And they are many who disagree.
Most scientists call multiverses for philosophy because we cannot observe it.
Well. Time will tell.

A believer is Max Tegmark, professor at MIT:)
http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/mathematical.html

I saw a new documentary last night from BBC with Laura Mersini-Houghton, Max Tegmark, Anthony Aguirre and Seth Lloyd discussing this matters.

If there are an infinite number of universes means that there is a perfect copy of our universe somewhere.
Weird:)

Edit
It was Laura Mersini-Houghton who predicted that a multiverse could be observed in the WMAP.
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Message 1668591 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 20:49:54 UTC

If there are an infinite number of universes means that there is a perfect copy of our universe somewhere. Weird:)

ER no. The universe itself may be infinite but every human being that has ever lived is different to any other one. Therefore I don't think there will be a perfect copy somewhere.

It's like the old conundrum that if you sat down a group of monkeys at typewriters, then in time they would produce the complete works of Shakespeare. This is assuming everlasting typewriters, ribbons and paper, and monkeys that live for ever with available food and water, and enough interest to keep pounding the keys.

The odds against it are so great as to be impossible to calculate, same with a copy universe.
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Message 1668618 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 21:32:15 UTC - in response to Message 1668591.  
Last modified: 22 Apr 2015, 21:47:24 UTC

If there are an infinite number of universes means that there is a perfect copy of our universe somewhere. Weird:)

ER no. The universe itself may be infinite but every human being that has ever lived is different to any other one. Therefore I don't think there will be a perfect copy somewhere.
It's like the old conundrum that if you sat down a group of monkeys at typewriters, then in time they would produce the complete works of Shakespeare. This is assuming everlasting typewriters, ribbons and paper, and monkeys that live for ever with available food and water, and enough interest to keep pounding the keys.

I Think you missed the BBC Horizon "Infinity and beyond".
If there are an infinitive numbers of monkeys typing whatever there will be a copy of the complete works of Shakespeare.
But it will take times. Don't hold your breath:)

Odds has nothing to with it.
Take lottery for instance.
If you buy an infinite numbers of tickets you will win:)

And of course. There can be an infinite perfect copies of our universe somewhere.
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Message 1668750 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 4:18:10 UTC - in response to Message 1668591.  

If there are an infinite number of universes means that there is a perfect copy of our universe somewhere. Weird:)

ER no. The universe itself may be infinite but every human being that has ever lived is different to any other one. Therefore I don't think there will be a perfect copy somewhere.

It's like the old conundrum that if you sat down a group of monkeys at typewriters, then in time they would produce the complete works of Shakespeare. This is assuming everlasting typewriters, ribbons and paper, and monkeys that live for ever with available food and water, and enough interest to keep pounding the keys.

The odds against it are so great as to be impossible to calculate, same with a copy universe.

Ah, but you don't understand infinity. You have assumed a finite amount of time. That being the monkeys are stopped when they finish the works of Shakespeare. If you continue for an infinite time the monkeys will produce an infinite number of copies of the works.

The math isn't that hard if you remember algebra.

Assume the smallest possible chance of something in a given time period, just above zero: 1/INF

Now multiply by an infinity of time: INF * (1/INF)
which reduces to INF/INF which is equal to 1, or the certainty that it will happen.

Now take a possibility, still tiny but somewhat away from zero, 1/googol
(googol is 10^100 or 1 followed by 100 zeros. Picked as the common answer for the number of particles in the observable universe is a bit less at 10^80 or 1 followed by 80 zeros. So we are saying the chance for a specific event happening to a specific particle in the universe.)

Now an infinity of time: INF * (1/googol)
Reducing, INF/googol.
Now remember a googol is a very tiny number compared to infinity googol<<INF
So you have INF/1 for all practical realities, giving you a result of INF. So your event will happen an infinity of times.

This is where it gets interesting. I suspect soon we may understand that because the chances of stuff happening are well above zero that the universe must happen. Thus ending the need for a "first mover" to set the chain of events in motion. The present fly in that is we seem to see an age for the universe, but that may just be for this chunk that we can observe.
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Message 1668851 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 9:52:01 UTC - in response to Message 1668750.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2015, 10:02:00 UTC

Hrmm:) You cannot use INF in algebra.
The algebraic limit laws were stated explicitly for finite limits. How do we deal with infinite limits?
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/mth251/cq/Stage4/Lesson/infinity.html
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Message 1668944 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 14:40:36 UTC - in response to Message 1668750.  

You may want to examine infinitessimals and their inverses. They may have implications for quantum effects at the very small and may indicate that there is something wrong with our numbers and number theory in general.

I abandoned my own studies in this area but there a few good books on the subject --they are a new way of looking at Calculus as well.
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Message 1669067 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 19:15:28 UTC - in response to Message 1668944.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2015, 20:00:04 UTC

They may have implications for quantum effects at the very small and may indicate that there is something wrong with our numbers and number theory in general.

Nop.
There is nothing wrong with the math.
It has nothing to do with numbers since matematicians use algebra.
However combining cosmos (our world) and micro cosmos (quantum world) something goes wrong.
Why? Look at Newtons law of gravity.
F = G * (m1*m2)/(r^2)
If r (radius) gets so small like in the quantum world then F (force) are getting very big.
If r=0 like in a black hole then the force will be infinte.
Since there are black holes something is wrong in our understanding but not in some math.

Now there is a Another hypothesis.
The Holographic principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
It means that our universe isn't warped in time and space.
Gravity is just an illusion.
We live in a 2D hologram projection that we belive is 3D.
The hologram position (our world) is on the event horizon of a black hole.
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Message 1669171 - Posted: 24 Apr 2015, 0:44:24 UTC - in response to Message 1669067.  
Last modified: 24 Apr 2015, 1:23:54 UTC

Jan wrote: "There is nothing wrong with the math."

Go do some reading on infinitessimals and then consider their implications and then you may change your view on whether the strangeness in quantum mechanics at the very small level may be due to the fact that our ideas about numbers may be inadequate.

An infinitessimal number is smaller than any real number and therefore it's inverse is larger than any real number. Interested ?? do some reading.


remember tha tin calculus we through away (dx)(dy) which is precisely what we say is the Heisenberg uncertainty principal.
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Message 1669215 - Posted: 24 Apr 2015, 3:19:20 UTC

I have seen several different descriptions lately of what is supposed to be the largest structure in the universe. I question what the definition of being a structure is.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1669245 - Posted: 24 Apr 2015, 5:43:58 UTC - in response to Message 1668000.  
Last modified: 24 Apr 2015, 5:58:17 UTC

Would we even know when a black hole was getting ready to swallow us? I mean that seriously.


Most people would say NO, but I would say YES!

How?
Black hole is such an abnormality in the Space-time continuum, that it would - if ti was heading our (Solar system) would distrupt the surrounding stars, it would drawn some gas that would light up near the edge of horizon (& glow like some star), also we would see jet of gamma radiation spraying on poles of Black hole...so we would see that something is happening! Even if we couldn't pinpoint the Black hole, we would know the region where it is & where it's headed...

Kind of like we wach Dark matter now...


They may have implications for quantum effects at the very small and may indicate that there is something wrong with our numbers and number theory in general.

Nop.
There is nothing wrong with the math.
It has nothing to do with numbers since matematicians use algebra.
However combining cosmos (our world) and micro cosmos (quantum world) something goes wrong.
Why? Look at Newtons law of gravity.
F = G * (m1*m2)/(r^2)
If r (radius) gets so small like in the quantum world then F (force) are getting very big.
If r=0 like in a black hole then the force will be infinte.
Since there are black holes something is wrong in our understanding but not in some math.

Now there is a Another hypothesis.
The Holographic principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
It means that our universe isn't warped in time and space.
Gravity is just an illusion.
We live in a 2D hologram projection that we belive is 3D.
The hologram position (our world) is on the event horizon of a black hole.


Radiuses are never equal to 0...they can't be!
But they do get close together...

So in descibing your thesys I would in your place prefer to use LIMES...so the sentence would be:
"If tends to get to 0, like in a black hole, then the force will be almost infinte."
;)

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