AFAIK, there are PCIe 1.0 x1 GPU cards (max power consumption):

1024MB Club 3D Radeon R5 230 Noiseless Edition Passive (19W)

512MB ZOTAC GeForce GT 610 Actively (29W) (GF119, Fermi)

And PCIe 2.0 x1 card:

1024MB ZOTAC GeForce GT 730 LP Passive (23W) (GK208-301-A1, Kepler)


Which performance they have, which SETI or AP RAC would be possible?

There are also other manufacturer and GPU chip series available?

Thanks.

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AFAIK, there are PCIe 1.0 x1 GPU cards (max power consumption):

1024MB Club 3D Radeon R5 230 Noiseless Edition Passive (19W)

512MB ZOTAC GeForce GT 610 Actively (29W) (GF119, Fermi)

And PCIe 2.0 x1 card:

1024MB ZOTAC GeForce GT 730 LP Passive (23W) (GK208-301-A1, Kepler)


Which performance they have, which SETI or AP RAC would be possible?

There are also other manufacturer and GPU chip series available?

Thanks.

R5 230 is a rebranded HD7450. Which is a rebranded HD6450.
The GT 730 is a rebranded GT 630.
Out of those 3 I would go with the 730.

For my J1900 I am planning on getting one of these adapters & then securing the GPU to one of the free slots in the case. As it is designed to fit an ATX MB & the J1900 is mini-ITX.

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SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
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Um... How many watts can x1 provide? 75 Watts like a regular x16 or less?

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The spec for X1 PCI-e states that the max is 25W. I would think that the cards intended for an X1 slot should conform to that standard. YMMV of course, but I would think that if the MB is plumbed for X1, the traces should be able to handle it.

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HAL9000 wrote:

R5 230 is a rebranded HD7450. Which is a rebranded HD6450.
The GT 730 is a rebranded GT 630.
Out of those 3 I would go with the 730.

For my J1900 I am planning on getting one of these adapters & then securing the GPU to one of the free slots in the case. As it is designed to fit an ATX MB & the J1900 is mini-ITX.

Which GPU card you would like to add?

[EDIT: I have the ASRock Q1900DC-ITX mobo. Which do you have?]

spitfire_mk_2 wrote:

Um... How many watts can x1 provide? 75 Watts like a regular x16 or less?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Power
All sizes of ×4 and ×8 PCI Express cards are allowed a maximum power consumption of 25 W. All ×1 cards are initially 10 W; full-height cards may configure themselves as 'high-power' to reach 25 W, while half-height ×1 cards are fixed at 10 W. All sizes of ×16 cards are initially 25 W; like ×1 cards, half-height cards are limited to this number while full-height cards may increase their power after configuration. They can use up to 75 W (3.3 V × 3 A + 12 V × 5.5 A), though the specification demands that the higher-power configuration be used for graphics cards only, while cards of other purposes are to remain at 25 W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_.28standard.29
AFAIK, the first 11 contacts deliver the power. This is the same at x1 up to x16 slots.

I understand it like this, all PCIe slots from x1 up to x16 can deliver 75W.
Yes or No?

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HAL9000 wrote:

R5 230 is a rebranded HD7450. Which is a rebranded HD6450.
The GT 730 is a rebranded GT 630.
Out of those 3 I would go with the 730.

For my J1900 I am planning on getting one of these adapters & then securing the GPU to one of the free slots in the case. As it is designed to fit an ATX MB & the J1900 is mini-ITX.

Which GPU card you would like to add?

spitfire_mk_2 wrote:

Um... How many watts can x1 provide? 75 Watts like a regular x16 or less?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Power
All sizes of ×4 and ×8 PCI Express cards are allowed a maximum power consumption of 25 W. All ×1 cards are initially 10 W; full-height cards may configure themselves as 'high-power' to reach 25 W, while half-height ×1 cards are fixed at 10 W. All sizes of ×16 cards are initially 25 W; like ×1 cards, half-height cards are limited to this number while full-height cards may increase their power after configuration. They can use up to 75 W (3.3 V × 3 A + 12 V × 5.5 A), though the specification demands that the higher-power configuration be used for graphics cards only, while cards of other purposes are to remain at 25 W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_.28standard.29
AFAIK, the first 11 contacts deliver the power. This is the same at x1 up to x16 slots.

I understand it like this, all PCIe slots from x1 up to x16 can deliver 75W.
Yes or No?

The R7 260X is what I'm considering at the moment. It is one of the best ATI cards for PPW for the money. I am also considering on getting a GTX 750 ti to play around with.
Another option I am thinking about is the higher end Pentium J2900 that has PCIe x16 slot(at x1) http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q2900M/. I currently have ASRock Q1900-ITX & they do make a Q1900M with PCIe x16 slot, but if I were to buy another I would go for slightly faster CPU given low cost difference.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
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FWIW I have a 780 running on a PCIe x1 slot with no problems. The extender cable is however powered by a MOLEX.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

TechVelocity.com

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1) FWIW I have a 780 running on a PCIe x1 slot with no problems.

2) The extender cable is however powered by a MOLEX.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

TechVelocity.com

See. The 1 is clear. The 2 is not clear at all.

For part 2. Are you saying that you have additional power cable running from power supply to the card?

Maybe it is the language problem. The extender cable does not make sense in the context of a video card. The molex, to me is either type of connector or manufacturer of a connector, so telling me that something is "powered by molex" is worthless because it still does not tell me where the power coming from.

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1) FWIW I have a 780 running on a PCIe x1 slot with no problems.

2) The extender cable is however powered by a MOLEX.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

TechVelocity.com

See. The 1 is clear. The 2 is not clear at all.

For part 2. Are you saying that you have additional power cable running from power supply to the card?

Maybe it is the language problem. The extender cable does not make sense in the context of a video card. The molex, to me is either type of connector or manufacturer of a connector, so telling me that something is "powered by molex" is worthless because it still does not tell me where the power coming from.

Generally the term "molex connector" is used to describe the "AMP MATE-N-LOK 1-480424-0 Power Connector". Sometimes also called a "drive power connector". Rather than the 20/24 or 4/8 pin power connectors to the MB or the SATA drive power connector.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molex_connector#/media/File:Molex_female_connector.jpg

Here is an example of a powered PCIe x1 to x16 adapter with a molex power connection. http://i.imgur.com/NSw8QpJ.jpg


Looking at reviews for PCIe x1 video cards & motherboards MB with only PCIe x1 slots. It seems that not all MB will support a video card in the x1 slot. I may send ASRock an e-mail to ask them before I buy anything to try on my J1900 board, or wait to see what Dirk finds. If anyone has a lead on a higher end PCIe x1 GPU other than what they listed.

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SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
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I d/l the manuals for Q1900DC-ITX [ftp://66.226.78.21/manual/Q1900DC-ITX.pdf] (my) & Q1900-ITX [ftp://66.226.78.21/manual/Q1900-ITX.pdf] (HAL9000's) mobos (.PDF files).

[Can't use BBCode for the URLs, the SETI website add automatically 'http://' to the front, then it don't work. If wanted just copy the URLs to your browser.]

Q1900DC-ITX:
• 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot
• 1 x mini-PCI Express Slot
* Due to the power limitation and PCIe bandwidth (x1), the
VGA card is not supported

Q1900-ITX:
• 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot
• 1 x mini-PCI Express Slot

So it looks like my 'DC' mobo don't support GPU cards.
But maybe ASRock don't know that there are PCIe 2.0 x1 GPU cards which use just 23W?
25W would be the min/max specs for PCIe x1.

So I guess I would need to send the E-Mail to ASRock. ;-)

Hm, OK, oh well ...

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did you check out these: http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/index.php?mfgr%5B%5D=amd&mfgr%5B%5D=ati&mfgr%5B%5D=nvidia&mobile=0&released%5B%5D=y11_c&released%5B%5D=y08_11&generation=&chipname=&interface=PCIe+2.0+x1&ushaders=&tmus=&rops=&memsize=&memtype=&buswidth=&slots=&powerplugs=&sort=released&q=or+type+to+Search...
;)

also, here is the comparison:
http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-5450-PCIe-x1-vs-GeForce-GT-610-PRO-X2-PCIe-x1
seems like GeForce GT610 is faster! :D

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Thanks.
Yes, maybe the max 19W (OpenCL 80%=15.2W) of the '1024MB Club 3D Radeon R5 230' card would be 'better'. ;-)



From ASRock Taiwan:
Due to the DC board is using DC adapter, there is power limitation when installing VGA card. So, we add the caution on the spec.

The power is provided by PSU on Q1900-ITX, so there is no power limitation on it.
However, Q1900-ITX support 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot.
PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot is not designed for VGA card, if install VGA card on it, the performance will not better than x16 slot, so we recommend to use onboard VGA. If user really want to install VGA card, the VGA card of user using is able to install on this model.


English isn't my first language and I just can poor english ...
So I don't understand really. ;-)

I have a 90W laptop power supply connected to my DC board, currently the whole PC (full load 4x CPU and 1x iGPU OpenCL) use ~31W at the wall plug.
Also they (Europe/NL support) said before, this mobo/PCIe slot can deliver 25W.
So the 23W Zotac card will, can, must, should, could be ?? ;-) work?
AFAIK, GPU cards use average 80% of max if CUDA/OpenCL, this would mean in this case the Zotac card will use 18.4W. ;-)

And the 'without DC' board, GPU card will work.

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Thanks.
Yes, maybe the max 19W (OpenCL 80%=15.2W) of the '1024MB Club 3D Radeon R5 230' card would be 'better'. ;-)



From ASRock Taiwan:
Due to the DC board is using DC adapter, there is power limitation when installing VGA card. So, we add the caution on the spec.

The power is provided by PSU on Q1900-ITX, so there is no power limitation on it.
However, Q1900-ITX support 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot.
PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot is not designed for VGA card, if install VGA card on it, the performance will not better than x16 slot, so we recommend to use onboard VGA. If user really want to install VGA card, the VGA card of user using is able to install on this model.


English isn't my first language and I just can poor english ...
So I don't understand really. ;-)

I have a 90W laptop power supply connected to my DC board, currently the whole PC (full load 4x CPU and 1x iGPU OpenCL) use ~31W at the wall plug.
Also they (Europe/NL support) said before, this mobo/PCIe slot can deliver 25W.
So the 23W Zotac card will, can, must, should, could be ?? ;-) work?
AFAIK, GPU cards use average 80% of max if CUDA/OpenCL, this would mean in this case the Zotac card will use 18.4W. ;-)

And the 'without DC' board, GPU card will work.

Asrock is saying 'you can use the 1x card, but that you will see better results with what is built in that motherboard, than with a 1x pcie card', Asrock is thinking in terms of just video output, I doubt they have a clue as to Seti@Home.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Thanks.
Yes, maybe the max 19W (OpenCL 80%=15.2W) of the '1024MB Club 3D Radeon R5 230' card would be 'better'. ;-)



From ASRock Taiwan:
Due to the DC board is using DC adapter, there is power limitation when installing VGA card. So, we add the caution on the spec.

The power is provided by PSU on Q1900-ITX, so there is no power limitation on it.
However, Q1900-ITX support 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot.
PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slot is not designed for VGA card, if install VGA card on it, the performance will not better than x16 slot, so we recommend to use onboard VGA. If user really want to install VGA card, the VGA card of user using is able to install on this model.


English isn't my first language and I just can poor english ...
So I don't understand really. ;-)

I have a 90W laptop power supply connected to my DC board, currently the whole PC (full load 4x CPU and 1x iGPU OpenCL) use ~31W at the wall plug.
Also they (Europe/NL support) said before, this mobo/PCIe slot can deliver 25W.
So the 23W Zotac card will, can, must, should, could be ?? ;-) work?
AFAIK, GPU cards use average 80% of max if CUDA/OpenCL, this would mean in this case the Zotac card will use 18.4W. ;-)

And the 'without DC' board, GPU card will work.

It would be good if they explained "there is power limitation when installing VGA card". Are they thinking in terms of the DC supply to MB being the limit or is there a limit built into the MB so it can not supply much power to the PCIe slot?
I would guess they are thinking the external DC supply to be the "limit". Expecting users to maybe only have small 25-30w DC supplies to run the MB.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
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Well, not all MBO are made to run PCIe/PCI on full power...with the CPU that draws up to 100W now! :/

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

After some time (1 3/4 years), which VGA cards with x1 plug are available now?


If I looked correct, this is the card which is available now:

ZOTAC GeForce GT 710, 1024MB DDR3, PCIe 2.0 x1, VGA, DVI, HDMI (ZT-71304-20L)


I have the:
ZOTAC GeForce GT 730, 1024MB, LP, Passiv, PCIe 2.0 x1 (ZT-71107-10L)
...installed. The above GT 710 would be a step back. ;-)


AMD's FirePro and NVIDIA's NVS could calculate also SETI's AP & MB WUs?


You know maybe other VGA cards with x1 plug which are available now?


Thanks.

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My J1900-ITX seems to feed a GTX 750 ti without any issues using a PCIe x1 to PCIe x16 adapter.

Since the J1900-ITX only has PCIe 2.0 a very fast GPU would probably seem some slowdown if used in a PCIe x1 slot.
If anyone is using a x60 or x70 GPU in a x1 slot the amount of slowdown could be determined.

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SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

My J1900-ITX seems to feed a GTX 750 ti without any issues using a PCIe x1 to PCIe x16 adapter.

Since the J1900-ITX only has PCIe 2.0 a very fast GPU would probably seem some slowdown if used in a PCIe x1 slot.
If anyone is using a x60 or x70 GPU in a x1 slot the amount of slowdown could be determined.

Hi,

even the oldest of implementations of seti gpu sw does like this:

PC: Read the file, send it to GPU
do 110 times // or more
  Tell the GPu to smear the signal to match a bit more accelerated (deccelerated) position of a remote (heavenly) object.
  Find if it now matches any of the 6 criteria doing for each 
    Get the bytes telling if there was a match.
    Bring a small amount data back if it meets this seldom true criteria.
    Process that by CPU.
done
// wait actively at every step in the previous loop. Eat CPU cycles as much as you can. (The much talked about feeding) - depending on the implementation of the GPU driver and its latecy.

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To overcome Heisenbergs:
"You can't always get what you want / but if you try sometimes you just might find / you get what you need." -- Rolling Stones

    Bring a small amount data back if it meets this seldom true criteria.
    Process that by CPU.

// wait actively at every step in the previous loop. Eat CPU cycles as much as you can. (The much talked about feeding) - depending on the implementation of the GPU driver and its latecy.

So plenty of queuing and buffering needed to overcome these latencies?

---

Grant
Darwin NT