A good definition of 'false dichotomy' is the following:

A false dilemma, or false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting two opposing views, options or outcomes in such a way that they seem to be the only possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false, or, more typically, if you do not accept one then the other must be accepted.

Reminds me of the Creation argument. If you do not have a definitive answer on the origins of the Universe (as science currently doesn't), then you must accept the only opposing view that is the Creation Hypothesis. As if there's only two options on the table and if you can't prove one you must believe the other.

Or so sayeth a few of the religious people I've talked with.

A good definition of 'false dichotomy' is the following:

A false dilemma, or false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting two opposing views, options or outcomes in such a way that they seem to be the only possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false, or, more typically, if you do not accept one then the other must be accepted.

Reminds me of the Creation argument. If you do not have a definitive answer on the origins of the Universe (as science currently doesn't), then you must accept the only opposing view that is the Creation Hypothesis. As if there's only two options on the table and if you can't prove one you must believe the other.
Or so sayeth a few of the religious people I've talked with.

Thanks OzzFan.
You are spot on.

I am getting the feeling someone is a bit OCD on the subject and perhaps personally involved.

You mean to say that someone who clearly spend her professional career researching the cultural dimension of mental disorders, is too involved to make statements about how color blindness is in itself a form of racism, which is something that would fall squarely in her field of research? Are you serious?

I'm saying if you are a PhD and write a paper about your own life, last cite, ....

When you reject the only possible stable state as not working ... Consider, if the world had always been colorblind, could racism on color have started? No. So how can that state of colorblind now be automatically racist? It can't. If you come up with this as your result, you have a logic error somewhere in your work or are adding other factors besides racism to your measure.

However in no way am I saying there aren't other real problems that need to be addressed. Classism being one.

Nor am I saying that if colorblind were adopted today that all the problems would suddenly go away. It will take many generations and never be perfect. Humans can not achieve perfection.

I am saying that if you replace one form of racial preference with another you still have racism.

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Every Brainiac and Dumb Dumb Dumb as Box of Rocks person As I Am Knows, if All Peoples are Vanilla, or All Chocolate, All Beautiful Face, All Healthy Perfect Physical Specimens, ALL Equal Opportunities, and ALL Else Same, GOoD, and Right,

We Will Be Bad, Do Bad, Discriminate, Prejudate, Biasdate, Agendadate, Stratify, Classify, Hate, Dislike, Go To PM Land,

and Generally Do What HuWoMan Do,

NO MATTER WHAT LAWS and PUNISHMENTS.

So, Racism, What's The Biggie.

Oh, I Know, I'm White and Have to DEAL LESS with HuWoMan Nature.

Life 'is' So GOoD to Me cause I'm White.

Empirical Academic Studies Say: I Gots 'it' Made In Da Shade.

Yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

When you reject the only possible stable state as not working ... Consider, if the world had always been colorblind, could racism on color have started? No. So how can that state of colorblind now be automatically racist? It can't. If you come up with this as your result, you have a logic error somewhere in your work or are adding other factors besides racism to your measure.

Or you haven't thought this trough as much as you think.

Its not that difficult to see how colorblindness is in itself a form of racism. Color blindness doesn't stop you from judging, it simply changes the reference framework in how you judge. So you default to what is broadly accepted as the cultural norm, whiteness and essentially judge everyone as if they were white.

Is that helpful or an improvement? Not really. For one, it tends to makes you blind to the fact that race is a thing that does affect peoples lives in all kinds of tangible ways that you as a white person never have to deal with. Acting like everyone around you is also white, with the implicit assumption that because of that, their experiences in life are more or less the same also means you will have a harder time empathizing with people whos experiences differ exactly because they are not white.

Secondly, you can end up denying or at least brushing over a huge part of someones identity that is linked to their race. In the end you will end up judging black people not because they are black but because they aren't acting like white people enough. It also means that you push for 'whiteness' as the social norm everyone has to conform to.

Finally, especially in something like psychology (which is clearly this ladies field of expertise), a persons cultural and racial background can have quite an impact. Pretending that everyone is white would simply make psychology much less effective when it comes to dealing with non-white people.

I believe that people trying to be colorblind is mostly done out of a genuine attempt not to be racists. But the sad fact is that it does make them racist in their own way.

Culture or Race?

A few months ago, while at a Train Station, here in Florida:

A Black American was Ranting about how the "White Man" was keeping "Blacks Down", and he couldn't get any job. Even a Low paying one.

I interjected, pointing to a nearby Taxi Stand, and said "How do you explain them. They are Blacker than you?"

In this Taxi Stand were 7-8 Haitian Taxi Drivers (many down here), standing outside their Taxi's. His reply was just to continue his rant against (using his term) "Whitey".

I have many Afro-Caribbean acquaintances, and Black American Relatives, via Marrying into the Family.

All have had varying degrees of success.

Is it more than Race?

Your story reminds me of a young lady I encountered at a CART (Indy Car) race in Denver 20 years ago. She was very vocally protesting the race was promoting Fossil Fuel use. I pointed out to her that she needed to engage her brain before purring her mouth in gear as all the vehicles in CART are run on ALCOHOL!

Can't get an internal combustion engine much more 'green' than that....

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Culture or Race?

...

So what benchmark do you use to judge the value or worthiness of a 'culture'?

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Reality Internet Personality

He said he thought I was Mexican and told me he was.

Interesting. Many moons ago, when I used to work retail, I had a similar experience while working the electronics booth. Happened on more than one occasion too. Latinos would come up to me and start speaking in Spanish, and when I looked confused they would say, "?Se hablas Espanol?". I learned to say "Se um pouco".

And no, I'm not of Latin/Hispanic descent at all. I'm probably whiter than Casper.

All I can say is I can tan reasonably well in the summer. One might suspect Italian ancestry at those times and, if one did, I would not be surprised. I wonder if my Germanic ancestors were from the southern part of Germany, getting closer to Italy? Any way, by, say, October, the tan is quite gone.

Every Brainiac and Dumb Dumb Dumb as Box of Rocks person As I Am Knows, if All Peoples are Vanilla, or All Chocolate, All Beautiful Face, All Healthy Perfect Physical Specimens, ALL Equal Opportunities, and ALL Else Same, GOoD, and Right,

We Will Be Bad, Do Bad, Discriminate, Prejudate, Biasdate, Agendadate, Stratify, Classify, Hate, Dislike, Go To PM Land,

and Generally Do What HuWoMan Do,

NO MATTER WHAT LAWS and PUNISHMENTS.

So, Racism, What's The Biggie.

Oh, I Know, I'm White and Have to DEAL LESS with HuWoMan Nature.

Life 'is' So GOoD to Me cause I'm White.

Empirical Academic Studies Say: I Gots 'it' Made In Da Shade.

Yep.

You say you're white, but we really have no evidence of that.
While we're at it, speak honestly: on what basis do you think people are afraid to criticize Obama (a claim which I have provided just a little evidence for but can find you more)? Are you claiming it is fear due to be viewed as racist? Or something else?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

You say you're white, but we really have no evidence of that.

WHAT!
Do we need to prove evidence of our ethnic heritage to discuss here?

You say you're white, but we really have no evidence of that.

WHAT!
Do we need to prove evidence of our ethnic heritage to discuss here?

Your misconstruing of my post is once again ridiculous and I once again urge you to put me on ignore. I am not going to take your false implications against me, whether it is due to your emotions running high or a poorly functioning translator,

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Thank you for confirming that it is not race that is the factor being judged but culture. Now can you use the correct identification in the future?

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Besides, if we were talking pigmentations, I would say ethnicity. There is only one race, the human race. "Race" for these matter is taxonomically incorrect.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

There is a thin line between races and spieces sometimes.
Human and neanderthals for instance.
Dogs many races and some spieces.
Domestic dogs, wolfs, jackals...

So what benchmark do you use to judge the value or worthiness of a 'culture'?

By How Much My Living Abode SHAKES and VIBRATES when a Neighbor Pulls Up across the street.

Like earlier today. I Hear the BOOMING, look out my window, Steadying Myself against the Vibrating Frame, and there, Lo and Behold, the Cultural Equivalent of OBlabby's Sons of Hope and Change.

They HOPE, their NOISE, will CHANGE my Abode to A Pile of Rubble, by Shaking and Vibrating 'It', Every Chance 'dey' Get.

I Know How Some Feel, when 'They' 'Decide' to RUN AWAY.

'Is' Dat 'Evidence' Enuf, Prof, 'bout what 'Race' I am?

Yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

So what benchmark do you use to judge the value or worthiness of a 'culture'?

By How Much My Living Abode SHAKES and VIBRATES when a Neighbor Pulls Up across the street.

Like earlier today. I Hear the BOOMING, look out my window, Steadying Myself against the Vibrating Frame, and there, Lo and Behold, the Cultural Equivalent of OBlabby's Sons of Hope and Change.

They HOPE, their NOISE, will CHANGE my Abode to A Pile of Rubble, by Shaking and Vibrating 'It', Every Chance 'dey' Get.

I Know How Some Feel, when 'They' 'Decide' to RUN AWAY.

'Is' Dat 'Evidence' Enuf, Prof, 'bout what 'Race' I am?

Yep.

Nope.
Nope. Not at all.
I dislike most of the music publicly heard of the style you are obviously referring to and I've heard of it come from the tin foil cars of Whites and Hispanics as well, from teens to their 40s.
If Cliff Harding said he dislikes rao, hip-hop or modern R&B (not the R n B of, say, BB King), would that make him white? Or just of an earlier generation?

Besides, if the sun really shines on you so much, move to the mountains and get away from the noise. Simple. Quit yer whining.

Anywho, interesting how you dodged the primary question.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

So what benchmark do you use to judge the value or worthiness of a 'culture'?

Good question chicken stacker.

Also important is how you put that measuring stick up to a culture. How far apart are the tick marks? Is that measuring stick distorted by the culture of the person who offers it up?

As an example, suppose the person offering up the measuring stick is from a culture that values FGM more than anything else. A culture that doesn't practice FGM is going to score very low. This does not make the measuring stick invalid, just biased. No matter what measurement is proposed, it reflects the bias of the person proposing it.

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As an example, suppose the person offering up the measuring stick is from a culture that values FGM more than anything else. A culture that doesn't practice FGM is going to score very low. This does not make the measuring stick invalid, just biased. No matter what measurement is proposed, it reflects the bias of the person proposing it.

FGM as in Female Genital Mutilation?

So what benchmark do you use to judge the value or worthiness of a 'culture'?

Good question chicken stacker.

Also important is how you put that measuring stick up to a culture. How far apart are the tick marks? Is that measuring stick distorted by the culture of the person who offers it up?

As an example, suppose the person offering up the measuring stick is from a culture that values FGM more than anything else. A culture that doesn't practice FGM is going to score very low. This does not make the measuring stick invalid, just biased. No matter what measurement is proposed, it reflects the bias of the person proposing it.

Exactly. So pretending its all about culture is a nonsense. Its racism under another guise.

The Europeans wiped out the Native Americans based on the idea that somehow white European culture was superior.

Some things we all judge as horrific in our culture, such as FGM, some things in your culture I think are disgusting, such as the death penalty and drive through ATMs.

Besides, the culture idea doesn't explain the racism against Obama.

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Reality Internet Personality

So what benchmark do you use to judge the value or worthiness of a 'culture'?

Good question chicken stacker.

Also important is how you put that measuring stick up to a culture. How far apart are the tick marks? Is that measuring stick distorted by the culture of the person who offers it up?

As an example, suppose the person offering up the measuring stick is from a culture that values FGM more than anything else. A culture that doesn't practice FGM is going to score very low. This does not make the measuring stick invalid, just biased. No matter what measurement is proposed, it reflects the bias of the person proposing it.

Exactly. So pretending its all about culture is a nonsense. Its racism under another guise.

race 2: each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics: As ES has posted it is black/white in the USA, then she must be using the quoted meaning of the word race, a distinct physical characteristic.

You can't solve the problem if you can't define it.

Besides, the culture idea doesn't explain the racism against Obama.

No, but the intense incredible hate that the two political parties have for each other covers the majority when you realize they must reach the lowest common denominator, the zero IQ voter, when they spill their vile hate filled rants.

On your side of the border, you have no idea how that party hate drives the debate. I've got a local runoff election coming up for the largely ceremonial position of Mayor. The election is supposed to be non-partisan. You wouldn't know if from the piles of partisan advertising arriving on my doorstep. The vilification is sickening. It is easy to use profanities because they are so base they ring in the largest number of people. It is all about how much mud you can throw, how bad the mud stinks and how fast you can throw it.

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