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Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 |
Dena you don't address my question, I'm surprised that you don't use set theory when you make your statements. I don't give a hoot for theory if it doesn't work. I work in facts. Look up theory and the description will be an unproven idea. The problem may be I don't understand what you are asking as I already answered the question you ask twice. The fact is a functional free market where everyone can succeed is not possible. We are not all born with equal skills or equal opportunity. If the government tries to make it so, it is no longer a free market because the government has their finger on the scale. We were only promised Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (originally Wealth). In the "Free Market" that means we are rewarded for what we provide if the market wants our product. If the market doesn't want our product, we are free to fail. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Dena you don't address my question, I'm surprised that you don't use set theory when you make your statements. Dena you are off topic and you seem to be incapable of being on topic as a debater or someone who uses logic, you choose to fail. |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 |
Dena you don't address my question, I'm surprised that you don't use set theory when you make your statements. That is the response of somebody who lost an argument. Please restate your question because the answer I provide wasn't what you were looking for. We may have a failure to communicate so think carefully before you ask. |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 |
government works for all of the people What you don't understand is how evil the progressive movement is. Among some of the many gems are forced sterilization of minorities who were considered inferior, killing people who were not contributing to society, white people should rule over third world countries and they were very strong supporters of Hitler and Musilini before we entered World War II. Today they have the attitude that they are so much better educated than the population that only they should be selected as rulers. Yes, Glen Beck did say much of that but I did my own research into the movement finding that and far more. They are some very dangerous people and if they have their way, some day you will be ruled by China or Russia if not the United States. Also for your information, Progressive means to progress away from the free government to a Marxist government. It means nothing more so don't read advancement into the name. Some of this information can be found on the internet with very deep searches but for the most part you need to get history books that document the movement. They are very aware the type of monsters they are and do a good job of cleaning their pubic image but so far the history of the movement is still available. I hope there is never a World Government as from the current U.N the first act will be the destruction of Israel. CLYDE understands far more about the world than you might think. The men who founded our government understood government and human nature. Our government was designed taking this into account. CLYDE understands this and as such knows the flaws of government created by man. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Dena you are off topic and you seem to be incapable of being on topic as a debater or someone who uses logic, you choose to fail. Hi. Central Scrutinizer here. There are no such thing as off topic in this thread:) Desperate nerds in high offices all over the world have been known to enact the most disgusting pieces of legislation in order to win votes (or, in places where they don't get to vote, to control unwanted forms of mass behavior). FZ |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
That makes no sense. You have over the air, movie rental, Internet Dish and Direct TV service. Satellite TV has been competing with cable almost from the time the first cable was constructed. Remember the 6 foot receiving antennas? They picked up the raw feed until it was scrambled but if your were willing to pay for it you could get a descrambler. I don't know how it is in your country but if somebody sees a market opportunity we sell stock or get a venture capitalist to fund entry into the business. Bumping the price only works on the short term unless the government grants a monopoly exclusive rights to a product. Satellite tv and cable tv are essentially two different markets. The fact that satellite tv exists does not mean that cable providers don't have a monopoly. And the fact that it are the cable companies that also have to provide internet just shows how bad this monopoly is for the consumer. Plenty of areas in the US just have one provider and they are known for their absolutely horrible service. And technically, you try to sell stock or get a venture capitalist to fund you. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone will buy your stock or that you get funding. Nor are those two indicators that you can successfully break a monopoly's hold over the market open. Its not that difficult for them to buy you out or just push you out of business. As for entry into the oil business, look up the term wildcatter. Many oil fortunes have been made that way. One, that maybe worked a 100 years ago, but today? And second, even if you drill on your own for oil and find it, you don't exactly break the monopoly. Finding oil does not mean you possess the capital to fund a proper well or the means to process it into something useful. As a wildcatter you are more likely getting rich by selling your land to an oil company. You also know very little about our government as most of our citizens. We may not have your brand of socialism but we have it none the less. Marxist governments take many forms and we learned from the worst. Ours is based on 1890 socialist Germany but we eliminated the requirement for a revolutions. As I said before, our form of socialism is called Progressivism. Riiiight.... Well first of all, I'm well aware what your government is and that it is socialist. Second of all, you just called 1890's Germany 'socialist'. 1890's Germany was conservative. It enacted some social reform, implemented a few measures that could be described as socialist, but those were introduced by conservatives for the sake of robbing actual socialist movements of momentum. As for progressivism, its kind of a useless term, given how much it changes meaning depending on when and where you are looking. |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Also for your information, Progressive means to progress away from the free government to a Marxist government. It means nothing more so don't read advancement into the name. No it doesnt, but if you really think it does mean that, then discussing this with you any further is pointless. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
As for entry into the oil business, look up the term wildcatter. Many oil fortunes have been made that way. That's very true Mikel. You can only buy and own a piece of land, that is the top of the land not whats under the land. The state owns all natural resources no matter where it is. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Myths "Capitalism and free markets is best" Dena this my original question. To spell it out for you once again,1 you concede that there never was a free market, 2 you state that by studying history we will know about something that never was. How do you reconcile fantasy with reality? |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
You can only buy and own a piece of land, that is the top of the land not whats under the land. The state owns all natural resources no matter where it is. Very good links Chris:) Even the Romans had such laws. “Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos†|
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Carlsberg stunts in Belgium with 148 bikers in a movie theatre. Some innocent couples want to take their seat, but the room is filled with not-so- friendly gentlemen... How will they react? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS3iB47nQ6E |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Government, and ALL Authority, work for themselves. Now you're scating on thin ice. That ALL Authority, work for themselves is simply not true. Myth perhaps:) |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Government, and ALL Authority, work for themselves. Yes you are right. Democracy is something you have to fight for. Every day. It's not given. Look at Europe today:( |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Second of all, you just called 1890's Germany 'socialist'. 1890's Germany was conservative. It enacted some social reform, implemented a few measures that could be described as socialist, but those were introduced by conservatives for the sake of robbing actual socialist movements of momentum. She has been told this numerous times and still refuses to accept it. I find her attempts to counter the claim to be unconvincing. I have a half-baked theory that it comes from Ayn Rand's false dichotomy that back in the 1930s, Europe was choosing between fascism or socialism as if democracy/capitalism was an unknown or forgotten choice to them. I have found several websites claiming fascism and socialism are the same. Ask people that grew up in the 40s and 50s (or their parents) and I doubt most in the US would say the same. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30648 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Second of all, you just called 1890's Germany 'socialist'. 1890's Germany was conservative. It enacted some social reform, implemented a few measures that could be described as socialist, but those were introduced by conservatives for the sake of robbing actual socialist movements of momentum. To an anarchist they both look similar. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Dena you don't address my question, I'm surprised that you don't use set theory when you make your statements. The idea that everyone has the opportunity to succeed or fail based on hard work or ability is a myth that excludes effects such as racism, sexism, extreme poverty and psychopathic behaviours of those with power (that could and does at the moment include financial power). The idea of the benevolent hand of the free market has had its day as it simply does not take into account all human behaviour and the fact that we are essentially a co-operative and social species. I find the work of the Nobel Prize winning economist Elinor Ostrom particularly interesting as she had been studying how people organise resources in a communal fashion. Her ideas should be of interest to the anarchists amongst us (who by the way, Gary, do see a difference between Socialism and Fascism) Here is her Prize lecture. I think you will find it very interesting. Beyond Markets and states: Polycentric Governance of complex economic systems Reality Internet Personality |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
The idea that everyone has the opportunity to succeed or fail based on hard work or ability is a myth that excludes effects such as racism, sexism, extreme poverty and psychopathic behaviours of those with power (that could and does at the moment include financial power) Chris an economy which has monopolies and or oligopolies very effectively puts limits on the fruits of hard labor. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
I find the work of the Nobel Prize winning economist Elinor Ostrom particularly interesting as she had been studying how people organise resources in a communal fashion. Her ideas should be of interest to the anarchists amongst us I had some problem downloading the pdf document. Anyway Elinor Ostrom (Åström or Riverstream) was awarded the first woman Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences Alfred Nobel memory in 2009. Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences was added in 1968. As you can see Alfred Nobel has nothing to do with his testamony and the prize for Economic "Sciences". |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30648 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Chris an economy which has monopolies and or oligopolies very effectively puts limits on the fruits of hard labor. Gosh, I didn't know that there was an unlimited supply and an unlimited demand for anything ....... |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Chris an economy which has monopolies and or oligopolies very effectively puts limits on the fruits of hard labor. Gary I think one could make a strong case for unlimited demand. |
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