Well, while dg6580004's list may be a fabrication attributed to Alinsky,
Alinsky's REAL list published in his book 'Rules for Radicals' (1971) bears some scrutiny. Particularly Rule 5 on page 128 of
http://archive.org/stream/RulesForRadicals/RulesForRadicals_djvu.txt

The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

You forgot to mention Denial....
Like Russia Today.

No ES is a militant female feminist and voluntary moderator who should leave this forum!

jann, being a militant female or mod does not make her incorrect in her views and she should them.

+1

- thousands

+ten trillion

No ES is a militant female feminist and voluntary moderator who should leave this forum!

jann, being a militant female or mod does not make her incorrect in her views and she should them.

+1

- thousands

+ten trillion

And that Gives?

She has good views and bad views like everybody else.
But she cannot seperate her role as a moderator and as a participant in this forum.

My name is NOT jann.

janneseti sorry about the name thing I was too lazy to spell out the whole thing, I will do better in the future, I hope someday you will get over it.

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My name is NOT jann.

janneseti sorry about the name thing I was too lazy to spell out the whole thing, I will do better in the future, I hope someday you will get over it.

No worries betreger.
Actually my name is shorter. Jan. Yes a real male name:)

Anyway why is so many in a bad mode and express it here?

Nevermind soon it will be Thorsday.
He He He

My apologies to the forum and moderator for not vetting my source for the material. I do stand by my assertions that these events are occurring by the reasons cited.

As to small businesses being trodden upon, I too sir spent 40 years in credit and compliance management for a $50 Million a year wholesale distribution company and I do know a thing or two about the EPA, OSHA, FTC and the expensive growing effort required to be in compliance.

And I still feel Society could well do without Lawyers in government.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

As to small businesses being trodden upon, I too sir spent 40 years in credit and compliance management for a $50 Million a year wholesale distribution company and I do know a thing or two about the EPA, OSHA, FTC and the expensive growing effort required to be in compliance.

Well the biggest business I was ever involved with was a lot less than that and the things you throw out are a straw man argument, they were never a big deal, we just had to deal with them. If you want to drink sewage that is your choice but I choose to be part of the solution not part of the problem

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One Sentence 99.9% of Time betreger said:

I choose to be part of the solution not part of the problem

List and Explain All Ways you are SolutionFYIng The 'Problem'[S]

Looking Forward to A MASSIVE POST, full of INFORMATION and SOLUTIONS.

Thank You.

Yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

If you want to drink sewage that is your choice but I choose to be part of the solution not part of the problem

Thanks for your extrapolation that if one objects to over regulation they obviously drink sewage. And exactly how are you 'part of the solution'.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

And yet you all wonder why your country's are in big dept .

I live in the best Country and it has been that way far longer than any off your country's . We have had the highest level of wealth per capita than the rest of the world since 1883

So we can tell you what you should be doing and lecture you for not doing it .

As we lead by example , not Lecture you all out of theory but by trying it first

We are not Marxist , Communist or a Dictatorship

We have the best Health care system than any other country , so good that even the American Government wished to introduce it but could not because of that annoying broken document called the American Constitution

I read the comments and ask how does all this stuff fit with Australia as it seems to me that all the things you go on about just don't stack up when you use Australia as a example !

So maybe you should stop listening to so called Academic's with there theory , or ask mmm where in the world can i look to what there say is going to happen , did it happen in the past i can use , and if it did not happen in the past and no country has tried or is doing then then ok it may have merit , but if there is a country that it applies to and is living it should you not look there first in stead of just believing what is said ?

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I suggest everyone stop defending or trying to argue with this made up nonsense.

ES you are probably correct, the scary thing to me is the thought he actually believes what he posts.

Typical.

When The Lefts arguments are refuted and/or questioned:

The just say a curse (BS or worse). Or just say "wrong".

I personally don't agree with everything Thirsty believes.

But any disagreement should be pointed out, and explained.

Will this be possible from those opposing Thirsty?

We will see.

Clyde, my little potato of assumption, I linked to a snopes article that pointed out the post was actually technically false. If you weren't so busy jumping to conclusions you would have noticed that.

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Reality Internet Personality

And that Gives?

She has good views and bad views like everybody else.
But she cannot seperate her role as a moderator and as a participant in this forum.

Jan, give it a rest. I actually have no idea what your beef is with me or what my link to the snopes article pointing out that something was BS has to do with me being a moderator.

Or even what me being a proud radical feminist has to do with anything that has been said here.

I quite happily separate my opinions from my modding decisions. Trust me, you have benefited from my ability to separate my opinions from my modding decisions many, many times. For example, my lenience right now despite your off topic and mythical claims about something I am supposed to have done to you.

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Reality Internet Personality

And that Gives?

She has good views and bad views like everybody else.
But she cannot seperate her role as a moderator and as a participant in this forum.

Jan, give it a rest. I actually have no idea what your beef is with me or what my link to the snopes article pointing out that something was BS has to do with me being a moderator.

Or even what me being a proud radical feminist has to do with anything that has been said here.

I quite happily separate my opinions from my modding decisions. Trust me, you have benefited from my ability to separate my opinions from my modding decisions many, many times. For example, my lenience right now despite your off topic and mythical claims about something I am supposed to have done to you.

Jan,
If you are unwilling to e-mail seti_moderators@ssl.berkeley.edu the mod list about any specific decision, then you agree with it. If you do e-mail know that several other sets of eyeballs will look at the decision and your explanation of it. Majority vote. Also Fred the Boss of Moderators will see it and review it.

From someone who knows from experience.

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And that Gives?

She has good views and bad views like everybody else.
But she cannot seperate her role as a moderator and as a participant in this forum.

Jan, give it a rest. I actually have no idea what your beef is with me or what my link to the snopes article pointing out that something was BS has to do with me being a moderator.

Or even what me being a proud radical feminist has to do with anything that has been said here.

I quite happily separate my opinions from my modding decisions. Trust me, you have benefited from my ability to separate my opinions from my modding decisions many, many times. For example, my lenience right now despite your off topic and mythical claims about something I am supposed to have done to you.

Jan,
If you are unwilling to e-mail seti_moderators@ssl.berkeley.edu the mod list about any specific decision, then you agree with it. If you do e-mail know that several other sets of eyeballs will look at the decision and your explanation of it. Majority vote. Also Fred the Boss of Moderators will see it and review it.

From someone who knows from experience.

+1
Ive been on both sides of that fence.

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[/quote]

Old James

Arguments used in favour of compulsory voting

Voting is a civic duty comparable to other duties citizens perform e.g. taxation, compulsory education, jury duty
Teaches the benefits of political participation
Parliament reflects more accurately the "will of the electorate"
Governments must consider the total electorate in policy formulation and management
Candidates can concentrate their campaigning energies on issues rather than encouraging voters to attend the poll
The voter isn't actually compelled to vote for anyone because voting is by secret ballot.

Source : Australian Electoral Commission

Arguments used against compulsory voting:

It is undemocratic to force people to vote – an infringement of liberty
The ill informed and those with little interest in politics are forced to the polls
It may increase the number of "donkey votes"
It may increase the number of informal votes
It increases the number of safe, single-member electorates – political parties then concentrate on the more marginal electorates
Resources must be allocated to determine whether those who failed to vote have "valid and sufficient" reasons.

Same source .

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Money Talks, Honesty Walks.

Is Human Run Government, more honest, than Human Run Business?

Why even ask the question.

It was a reply to Michel's post, not a question (Didn't you see the reply to message XXXXXXX?).

Please cite your reference as to the 'worst health care in the industrial world. It is controlled by government in that we are not free to buy any health care insurance, only those offered in my state AND through the GOVERNMENT PORTAL. Single males are forced to buy policies that cover pregnancy and female birth control due to the 'one size fits all' Obamacare.

Ohh boohoo, you are forced to buy female contraception coverage. Its not like women were forced to buy male reproductive healthcare coverage all along. In any case, welcome to an industrial of scale. The more people pay in, the cheaper stuff gets per person.

As for having the worst healthcare, Americans pay the most for healthcare while the average American life expectancy puts you on number 26 in the world rankings.

And by over-regulation, increased costs of LEGAL fees and other necessities to ensure compliance with DOJ, EPA, FCC, FTC, and AHCA, there are less funds to dedicate to wages and benefits for employees. Increased taxation(actual and hidden) has caused businesses not to expand or hire, in fact there were massive layoffs and that is still ocurring.

Oh please, if American business isnt one thing its being 'over-regulated'. But hey, get rid of the agencies, by all means, give business free reign to do whatever they want. Because clearly that has always worked out so well *ahem* 2008 financial meltdown *ahem* Deepwater Horizon *ahem*.

> Ronald Reagan’s First Term – $656 billion increase

> Ronald Reagan’s Second Term – $1.036 trillion increase

> George H.W. Bush’s Term – $1.587 trillion increase

> Bill Clinton’s First Term – $1.122 trillion increase

> Bill Clinton’s Second Term – $418 billion increase

> George W. Bush’s First Term – $1.885 trillion increase

> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase

> Barack Obama’s First Term – $5.806 trillion increase
and by his own administration's estimates that will be a total increase of 10 Trillion Dollars (US) by Dec. 31st 2016. Clearly you need to review your 'facts'.

Pretty sure that my claim that Ronald Reagan increased the debt and expanded the government is still very much true.

Again you need to check your FACTS: “President Obama pressed for an array of measures to curb gun violence last year in response to the 2012 killing spree at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. that left 26 people dead. The administration announced nearly two dozen executive actions, including nearly completed regulations designed to improve the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). “ Sounds great on the surface, but all of these measures are aimed at LEGAL OWNERS OF FIREARMS. The Newtown killings were committed by an insane individual who stole the weapon from his mother and killed her. Background checks are the 1st step to confiscation as proven already by the New York City Police Department who last year notified legal owners of firearms in the city to turn in their weapons.

Here are the actual facts.

Yes, one proposal is improve background checks, and the other is a ban on a certain style of weapons and limit ammo capacity. Those are the only two measures that really affect gun owners. But he isn't coming to get your weapons, the second amendment is not getting repealed, you can still carry guns around with you wherever you go. In other words, to say that Obama tries to control all the guns is just flat out nonsense.

And if New York bans weapons, then that is because the state of New York, not Obama, has passed tighter gun control regulations.

Yeah, the Bushes and Reagan are responsible for the largest expansion of Welfare in the country's history(sarcasm font). AND the recipients can use their benefits to buy Alcohol and drugs without repercussion. Well I guess that does expand one aspect of the economy(but somebody who is actually earning a paycheck must pay for these binges).

This nonsense again? Yeah I know, according to Fox News people on welfare regularly eat lobster and stuff. In reality, the majority of people on welfare have a job, even two jobs, but simply don't earn enough money to get around. And no, you cannot buy drugs with it, nor do people do that. Every time mandatory drug testing was introduced it was found that almost no one on welfare was also on drugs. All those mandatory drug testing programs are a waste of time.

That whole 'people on welfare are lazy addicts' is just Republican/Fox News propaganda in their war against the poor.

Common Core.........

Which states can refuse to adopt. Again, the Federal government has no constitutional basis to meddle with education. It can try, but in the end its something states can decide for themselves.

The US Dollar (itself an object of worship by some) bears the motto “In GOD we Trust”. The US Capitol contains a “Prayer Room” with the following inscriptions :"Annuit coeptis" (God has favored our undertakings) and "Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust."
— Psalm 16:1
And more and more Americans ARE putting their children in private or religious or EVEN BETTER Charter Schools(which are required to receive equal support of the states education system). This will eventually destroy the public school system in America.

First of all, in God we Trust only appeared on coins in 1864 and on paper money in 1957. It also became the second official motto of the US in 1956. So all that putting God everywhere only happened almost a century AFTER the US was officially founded.

Second of all, if people can choose to go to all kinds of alternative schools that do provide the religious character those people so desire, then whats the problem? How is it then that Obama is removing God from everything (even though he doesn't).

Where do you think the middle class went? Their businesses are being taxed and regulated out of existence. The fruits of their labors are being squandered on healthy, intelligent 'citizens' who, according to you, have the right to be supported by the 'Judeo/Christian' work ethic of others(your words from a prior post).

There is no such thing as a Judeo/Christian work ethic. There supposedly is a protestant work ethic.

And no, the middle class hasn't been taxed out of existence. What happened is that since Reagan came into office, the effective wages of everyone except the richest 10% or so have been frozen. Basically, all the economic growth, has gone to the upper class. Thats trickle down economics for you. Give the rich all the money, and then whatever crumpets fall through the cracks are for the rest.

I recognized our total dichotomy of thought. I also recognize the futility of discussing logical thought with you.

Indeed, then why bother to reply?

Please cite your reference as to the 'worst health care in the industrial world. It is controlled by government in that we are not free to buy any health care insurance, only those offered in my state AND through the GOVERNMENT PORTAL. Single males are forced to buy policies that cover pregnancy and female birth control due to the 'one size fits all' Obamacare

This is exactly the reason the American Form of Government is not working Good Health Care , Universal Health Care , is where all pay either Private fund or pay extra Tax

Having a Health Care system that has no mechanism to stop costs from Drug Company's and Health Care suppliers going up , you have no PBS system , pharmaceutical benifit system , subsidised drugs . The Government tells them how much they will pay not the other way around . That is why America has high costs

Is it Obama's fault your system did not let him introduce the right system instead of the system he had no choice to introduce.

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Having a Health Care system that has no mechanism to stop costs from Drug Company's and Health Care suppliers going up , you have no PBS system , pharmaceutical benifit system , subsidised drugs . The Government tells them how much they will pay not the other way around . That is why America has high costs

If you or a loved one has suffered death while taking drug call
1-800-BAD-DRUG
Brought to you by a paid non-attorney spokesperson for
Dewey Cheatem Goode

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But she cannot seperate her role as a moderator and as a participant in this forum.

I could... and did. It is possible to have an opinion on things, but not allow that opinion to control your actions. Those that seem to think this is impossible to do probably would make the worst mods.