US versus Europe The nice version

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Message 1657688 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 13:05:43 UTC
Last modified: 27 Mar 2015, 13:10:02 UTC

Welcome to Europe
Yes it's about politics.
Only facts AND humour
Anecdots and strange things as well.

I'm TO AND Mumin Dad:)
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Message 1657702 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 13:48:23 UTC - in response to Message 1657688.  

Welcome to Europe
Yes it's about politics.
Only facts AND humour
Anecdots and strange things as well.

I'm TO AND Mumin Dad:)


Good idea to have this thread, in my opinion. The USA and Europe have a great deal in common. The USA has much of its roots in language, customs, culture, and laws & government in Europe.

Our few differences, however, tend to be on issues each of us considers as important. Tempers can become overheated, and the invective begins to fly.

The USA is still pretty much a 'European' nation, however, when you get right down to it. The two major influences on our form of government are both European. John Locke from the UK (rights and power flows from the People to Government, not the other way around), and Montesquieu from France (separation of powers between branches of Government).

Our language(s) and culture are primarily of European origin, although we do have some elements from the indigenous peoples, and from non-European immigrants.

We are alike way more than we are different.

In the words of Rodney King:
Can we all get along?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0
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Message 1657704 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 13:51:36 UTC - in response to Message 1657702.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2015, 13:55:47 UTC

At last:)
I was worried for a minute...
Or was it seconds?

Cheers.

Our language(s) and culture are primarily of European origin

Correction old Norse:)
Iceland, Norway, Britain, Ireland, Denmark and Sweden:)

oops US and Canada of course.
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Message 1657724 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 14:53:49 UTC - in response to Message 1657688.  

Gordon Bennett Janne, you're asking for trouble from the board's Strait-Laced Commissars by lumping Humour & Politics in the same sentence. :-)
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Message 1657731 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 15:02:19 UTC - in response to Message 1657724.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2015, 15:05:33 UTC

Gordon Bennett Janne, you're asking for trouble from the board's Strait-Laced Commissars by lumping Humour & Politics in the same sentence. :-)

I have the nerve:)

Our former FM and PM Carl Bildt said when he quitted and asked.
Who do you Think will miss you most in politics?
Hmmm Probably Russian FM Lavrov:)
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1657809 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 18:02:29 UTC

My Ancestors are Rock. Sometimes we Roll, most times we 'Stand' in Same Place, like fOever.


I Don't know my Roots. Don't think they like Chicken. My Roots Suck.


Someone once said My Great Greats are Primodial. I hucked a huey in their face for dat.


All Three of US are Broheims or Broheimettes and Don't Care 'bout No Differences, Politics or Stuff.

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1657817 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 18:10:07 UTC - in response to Message 1657809.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2015, 18:12:31 UTC

My Ancestors are Rock. Sometimes we Roll, most times we 'Stand' in Same Place, like fOever.Yep


Yep:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj0Rz-uP4Mk
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Message 1657837 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 18:35:50 UTC - in response to Message 1657817.  

Yep, it's about time we rocked. For too long the politicians have rocked while they "rolled" us, so it's time we rocked & "rolled" them :-) (puns intended).
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Message 1657888 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 19:46:34 UTC - in response to Message 1657719.  

We are alike way more than we are different.

Absolutely correct.

But most, on both sides, are ignorant [unlearned] of these differences.

Why put the emphasis on those differences? They are in the grand scheme of things relatively minor :)
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Message 1658019 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 23:25:28 UTC - in response to Message 1657905.  

We both are living in a Judeo/Christian Culture.

I wonder where this idea of a Judeo/Christian culture came from. I mean, Jews have always been marginalized, and whatever Jews have contributed to our culture (and they have), that has very little to do with the fact that they were Jews. If anything, Islam has had a much larger influence on European/Western culture than Judaism.

But our Foundation Thinking of Power and Government, are substantially different. A good starting point of this discussion.

We had this discussion a dozen times now, and its clear that neither of us are going to move from their respective positions. Do you really want another round of each of us throwing the same arguments around?

Perhaps we could also discuss why Most of Western Europe, does not understand the Internal Workings of The United States of America: An Association of 50 Sovereign States (18th Century Term, meaning Nations). Guided under the Principals of a Constitution. These States only gave up the Internal Authority of Inter-State (read nations) Commerce - Defended Borders, Tariffs, etc., and Foreign Policy.

Yeah, Europeans invented that concept way back in the 17th century. And no, Sovereign state does not mean 'nation'. State means government, sovereign means that the government has supreme authority (aka that there are no other authorities the government has to listen too) over its territory. Nation on the other hand refers to whether the people who live within the borders of the state feel some kind of connection to said state. Such connections are usually based on ethnicity or some form of shared cultural experience. If Nation and State are both present you get a Nation State. Now in the West we often think that Nation and State go together, but that is just good old Eurocentric bias. The Nation State is an European invention and isn't as common as we often think. Plenty of countries are merely States, but not nations. Often as a result, these Nations are fairly weak and unstable internally.

Also, US states are not Sovereign. Even though they retain quite a bit of power over what happens inside their borders, they have given up way to much power over to the Federal Government to be considered 'Sovereign'.

Seriously, this is (Nation) Statebuilding/Statecraft and International Relations 101.

But why the ignorance of a Country which, since 1945, has been the Dominant Military and Economic Power?

Nah, outsiders are not that ignorant on the inner workings of the US. You are.
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Message 1658029 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 23:46:14 UTC

Oh dear. the US has so many misconceptions about Europe that I have to laugh:):)
First Europe is not a country.
EU is not a nation.
Every country has their OWN laws.

Europe is continent like America:)

However you can divide Europe into in my opinion into 4 regions with pretty much same culture.
Northern, Southern, Central and Eastern Europe.

I dont Think the US understand this...
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Message 1658178 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 7:27:54 UTC

Nice version? Admit it, you hate the USA and everything about it except possibly one person. ;) CHEERS!
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1658197 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 9:54:53 UTC - in response to Message 1658117.  
Last modified: 28 Mar 2015, 9:55:37 UTC

Negative to all the above, of course.

K, I guess we are doing it again :)

Looking at the Internal US through European eyes (Sovereign means ethnic, religious, etc.) is not an American concept.

No, Sovereign has nothing to do with ethnicity or religion. Look it up in a dictionary if you dont believe me.

Here I'll even link you to one.

Exactly what Rights does the Political Arm of the Federal Government, excepting those I innumerate, does it have?

Well thats the thing, the rights you state that the Federal Government has are of such magnitude that the individual States cannot be seen as Sovereign anymore. In general terms though, the moment a State gives up its ability to conduct Foreign Policy on its own, it ceases to be Sovereign. American states cannot conduct foreign policy, they can't declare war and they can't conduct trade with other states, ergo, there is nothing Sovereign about them. And thats only formally. Informally those States have even less power, since they have ceded to varying degrees, control over other policy areas to the Federal Government.

Do you realize that NO TREATY, signed by The Federal Government (there is NO US Government in The European sense) can be forced upon the Sovereign States, if it violates its Sovereignty?

See, this is how ignorant you are of your own nation. There is no US government. Yes there is, its called the Federal Government. It laws, as long as they are compatible with the constitution, are the laws of the land, meaning those laws come before any state laws. Its a central government, albeit one with more limitations placed upon it than in some European countries.

And yes, that means it can also sign treaties even if they violate state sovereignty. It clearly says so in the constitution that its the Federal government that can sign treaties and that those treaties when signed become Federal law and therefor the law of the land.

The ONLY additional 'Authority' is IF The Sovereign States agree to (and most of the time do) with The Federal Component. It is just an agreement, nothing more.

In which case they hand over Sovereignty to the Federal Government. Still, given the powers the Federal Government has, those States cannot be called Sovereign anymore, they have lost to much powers in policy areas that are vital components of what constitutes Sovereignty.
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Message 1658211 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 11:40:19 UTC - in response to Message 1658178.  

Nice version? Admit it, you hate the USA and everything about it except possibly one person. ;) CHEERS!

I don't hate America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geez.
OUT OF MY THREAD MORON!

sorry mods. Now it's WAR!
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Message 1658212 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 11:52:16 UTC
Last modified: 28 Mar 2015, 12:34:06 UTC

Thats it.
I told you the rules SARGE!
Welcome to Europe
Yes it's about politics.
Only facts AND humour
Anecdots and strange things as well.

I'm TO AND Mumin Dad:)


Mods. Can you please shut this thread down?

Thanks.

Janneseti AKA Mumintrollet. My avatar is Mumintrollet:)
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Message boards : Politics : US versus Europe The nice version


 
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