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Message 1650173 - Posted: 7 Mar 2015, 0:33:58 UTC - in response to Message 1645503.  
Last modified: 7 Mar 2015, 0:34:25 UTC

Gary I will talk your comment as a apology . Thank you

I am very peed of because I have been accused of being a racist because of the trouble I had with my nabour whom I tried to help in many way for over 18 months before I said enough is enough she is black trailer trash . she happened to of been Koori(aborignal)
I am not a racist to for you Americans to come out and call me a racist when you make comment like what was said on 2 broke girls has realy peed me off as well as the crypto thing aka me calling Americans traitors .

just so you all understand even thou this is the rong thread I will explain why I'm peed of about crypto curries (namecoins)

1941 German U boats sank 1600 supply ships and almost broke England at the time they had only 3 more months to stop the U boats sinking the supply ships .
With a bit of luck and a very clever rues the Brits got a hold of the Enigma code machine the Germans where using and was able to stop the U boats as they knew where they where . Releasing crypto is one off the biggest mistakes you guys have done . so stop thinking we live in a Utopian world and stop the b/s about freedom as it's only a illusion your attitudes are fine in a Utopian world but not in these times . I just hope it doesn't cause a big problem
after all if the brits did not get the Enigma machine they would have lost the war


One of my professors from when I earned my Master's degree was one of those that worked on cracking Enigma.

Glenn, I do not know why you are on about this. I think it shows you do not understand code making and code breaking very well.

I may be oversimplifying, but Enigma was essentially just a very clever and many layered shift system. Shift systems existed as far back as Julius Caesar, if not earlier. See if you can decode the following:

Hmfoo, ipx bsf zpv?

If you want to know more about code making of the last 60-70 years, learn about public and private keys. RSA, NTRU and so on. Those that lack the private keys will generally have a tough time to fail due to the extreme computational difficulty and time involved to determine whether a large number is prime, or the product of two very large primes, and so on ... .
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1650288 - Posted: 7 Mar 2015, 11:58:04 UTC - in response to Message 1650173.  
Last modified: 7 Mar 2015, 12:19:14 UTC

1941 German U boats sank 1600 supply ships and almost broke England at the time they had only 3 more months to stop the U boats sinking the supply ships .
With a bit of luck and a very clever rues the Brits got a hold of the Enigma code machine the Germans where using and was able to stop the U boats as they knew where they where . Releasing crypto is one off the biggest mistakes you guys have done . so stop thinking we live in a Utopian world and stop the b/s about freedom as it's only a illusion your attitudes are fine in a Utopian world but not in these times . I just hope it doesn't cause a big problem
after all if the brits did not get the Enigma machine they would have lost the war


One of my professors from when I earned my Master's degree was one of those that worked on cracking Enigma.
I may be oversimplifying, but Enigma was essentially just a very clever and many layered shift system. Shift systems existed as far back as Julius Caesar, if not earlier. See if you can decode the following:
Hmfoo, ipx bsf zpv?
If you want to know more about code making of the last 60-70 years, learn about public and private keys. RSA, NTRU and so on. Those that lack the private keys will generally have a tough time to fail due to the extreme computational difficulty and time involved to determine whether a large number is prime, or the product of two very large primes, and so on ... .

Enigma@Home is a wrapper between BOINC and Stefan Krah's M4 Project. 'The M4 Project is an effort to break 3 original Enigma messages with the help of distributed computing. The signals were intercepted in the North Atlantic in 1942 and are believed to be unbroken.' [read more] You can participate by downloading and running a free program on your computer.
http://www.enigmaathome.net/ :)
They where also lucky when Turning and his team cracked the code.
Many Enigma messages where sent with the same key. Death sin number one! That meant it was more "easy" to find patterns in the messages. Especially eins, zwei, drei that are very common.
http://www.bytereef.org/m4_project.html
"the extreme computational difficulty and time involved to determine whether a large number is prime, or the product of two very large primes" is due to this problem.
This is a factorization and It fits quite well to begin with multiplications and its various components to understand what a factor really is. When you multiply two numbers together these are called factors and the results you get a product.
For example, we can multiply 3 and 4 with each other and we then get:
• 3⋅4 = 12
There, 3 and 4, the factors and 12 the product. When you factorize something, go instead "backwards". So you go from the product to the factors. For example, we could factorize the number 44 in the following manner:
• 44 = 2⋅2⋅11
where 44 is the product and 2, 2 and 11 are factors.

Only quantum computer can do this with big numbers in a time less the a million of years. So far they can only do that with small numbers such as 15:)

Hmfoo, ipx bsf zpv? Is the method this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_cipher
Well you can always use brute force:)

Reminds me of this "HAL" and "IBM" from Arthur C. Clarke's Space Odyssey and the Movie by Kubrik.

Oops off topic. I was carried away:)
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Message 1650291 - Posted: 7 Mar 2015, 12:22:53 UTC - in response to Message 1650290.  
Last modified: 7 Mar 2015, 12:26:50 UTC

With a bit of luck and a very clever rues the Brits got a hold of the Enigma code machine the Germans where using and was able to stop the U boats as they knew where they where .

That is not quite correct Glenn. It wasn't the possession of an enigma machine that sorted the problem out. The cipher changed at least once a day, giving 159 million million million possible settings to choose from. The first operational break into Enigma came around the 23 January 1940, when the team working under Dilly Knox, with the mathematicians John Jeffreys, Peter Twinn and Alan Turing, unravelled the German Army administrative key. They used the Bombe and Colossus machines to decode the Lorenz and Enigma messages. And just as importantly send false messages back.

Read the story below.

Enigma


They didn't unravelled the German Army administrative key.
Only keys from German operators who didnt follow orders.

btw I was a conscript in the Signal Corps using all kind of these Machines.
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Message 1650296 - Posted: 7 Mar 2015, 12:46:09 UTC - in response to Message 1650292.  
Last modified: 7 Mar 2015, 12:57:09 UTC

You are partly correct. Sloppy operation helped a lot.

Keys

Partly correct:)
Key management, in the form of an encrypted exchange of message keys, was the weakest link of the Enigma protocol, as it allowed not only to develop multiple methods of reconstructing daily keys, but also endangered the secrecy of the cipher machine itself. Interestingly, key management remains the weakest link of multiple modern day systems and protocols.

What Turing did was to find patterns in the messages using very good methods and machines to do this before the staff checked them further.

At first they cut the messages between the lines. Then they slided the lines and compared them one by one and sometimes they found a pattern. Easy but very tedious.
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Message 1652844 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 12:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 1650173.  

Sarge you might wish to look up your history books about the enigma machine . You may think it was just some clumsy machine but it was not and why England nearly lost the war .
Also i do know a fear bit about code breaking and encryption in fact i use a code breaking program called the Bible code .
so i do know what public and private keys are . Did you know the government has the keys to get into most encyption programs i even heard that it was some sort of law in your country but not shore and would not surprise me .
You have herd of the computer the Brits had in ww2 to break the codes but they still needed the enigma machine to see exactly how they did it .
Also if coding is not inportant then what did the U.S do to stop the Japs from breaking there codes seeing as you think you know more than me on this as for your code mate can't be bothered but i to can play that game and i bet you wont be able to figure out any code i put up so i would not try and be a smart alex .
You Americans have stuffed up with crypto and it's not just me that know this your own military also know it ask any of your generals at the pentagon
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Message 1652863 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 14:56:36 UTC

Sorry. More non racist talks.

•Mathematics of Enigma: http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00004.cfm
•PhD thesis by Heinz Ulbricht (in German): Die Chiffriermaschine Enigma - Trügerische Sicherheit http://opus.tu-bs.de/opus/volltexte/2005/705/
•Paper by Jim Gillogly: Ciphertext-Only Cryptanalysis of Enigma http://members.fortunecity.com/jpeschel/gillog1.htm
•Paper by Ravi Ganesan and Alan T. Sherman: Statistical Techniques for Language Recognition http://www.cs.umbc.edu/pub/REPORTS/cs-93-02.ps
•Paper by Geoff Sullivan: Cryptanalysis of Hagelin machine pin wheels http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3926/is_200210/ai_n9129489
•Paper by Geoff Sullivan and Frode Weierud: Breaking German Army Ciphers http://www.cryptocellar.org/
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Message 1652870 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 15:34:27 UTC - in response to Message 1652859.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2015, 15:49:54 UTC

Sarge you might wish to look up your history books about the enigma machine . You may think it was just some clumsy machine but it was not and why England nearly lost the war. You have herd of the computer the Brits had in ww2 to break the codes but they still needed the enigma machine to see exactly how they did it.

Glenn, you might want to back off a bit on this one, because what you are saying is quite untrue, go and research it properly. The Poles broke the Enigma machines in 1933 and shared the info with The British at the onset of WWII in 1939. What Bletchley Park did was to use the Bombe and Colossus machines to decrypt the Enigma and Lorenz messages as the Germans were changing the ciphers every single day. I have been to Bletchley Park last year and seen it all and talked to the people there. I was also on an engineering training course there in 1977.

You mention the bible code. For those hear that haven't heard of it here is a link [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Code_%28book%29[/url] I wouldn't brag about it if I were you, as it has nothing to do with modern military cryptology!

Partially correct regarding The Poles and the Enigma Machine. I am only speaking of the information given to me, in the early 70's, from those 'In the Business'.

They stated that The Poles did not really 'Break the Code', but the Foundational Thinking about it.

Their Thinking, and The Machine, is what British Intelligence used.

As I said: Don't know if this is true.

It's amazing that 75 years on, there is still a lot of confusion regarding Enigma.

Britain got its first Enigma commercially in 1927 which was a 3 rotor machine.

The 1st military Enigma machine that was passed to Britain by Polish Intelligence in 1939 was a 4 rotor one which was not much use as the Wehrmacht had started using a 5 rotor machine, while the German Navy started using an 8 rotor one.

February 1940, the RN captured Enigma material using rotors VI & VII from the U-33.

7th May 1941, the RN captured complete cipher equipment & codes from a German weather ship, followed 2 days later by the capture of the U-110(which Hollywood decided was done by the Yanks).

Interestingly enough, there was a mention of Bletchley & Colossus in May's edition of PC Pro clearing up some confusion that PC Pro themselves had published.
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Message 1652871 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 15:51:06 UTC - in response to Message 1652858.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2015, 16:15:22 UTC

Chris. If you hurry you can go here:)
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY CENTRAL SECURITY SERVICE
(AKA No Such Agency)
FORT GEORGE G. MEADE, MARYLAND 20755-6000
Celebrate Pi Day at the National Cryptologic Museum - Saturday, 3.14.15
https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/press_room/2015/ncm_pi_day_2015.shtml
You can apply for NSA jobs here:)
https://www.nsa.gov/psp/applyonline/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_HM_PRE&Action=A&SiteId=1
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Message 1652928 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 18:30:38 UTC

Syphoned off from the Racist thread.
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Message 1652996 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:10:03 UTC - in response to Message 1652844.  

Sarge you might wish to look up your history books about the enigma machine . You may think it was just some clumsy machine but it was not and why England nearly lost the war .
Also i do know a fear bit about code breaking and encryption in fact i use a code breaking program called the Bible code .
so i do know what public and private keys are . Did you know the government has the keys to get into most encyption programs i even heard that it was some sort of law in your country but not shore and would not surprise me .
You have herd of the computer the Brits had in ww2 to break the codes but they still needed the enigma machine to see exactly how they did it .
Also if coding is not inportant then what did the U.S do to stop the Japs from breaking there codes seeing as you think you know more than me on this as for your code mate can't be bothered but i to can play that game and i bet you wont be able to figure out any code i put up so i would not try and be a smart alex .
You Americans have stuffed up with crypto and it's not just me that know this your own military also know it ask any of your generals at the pentagon


You have completely misrepresented my response to you.

And I will say again, I took a class with one of those on the team that cracked Enigma. The probability that it's my errors is small.

http://www.ams.org/notices/201111/rtx111101538p.pdf
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Message 1652997 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:11:28 UTC - in response to Message 1652858.  

Chris you have forgotten one thing if you can't decyper the message in a timely mamer then the info is outdated and useless . It was not till the had the enigma machine that they where able to reprogram Collussus to break the codes quickly and make the information use full instead of being stale and useless .

As for the the Bible code which i have had since 1998 , in order to use it you do have to learn a bit about code breaking otherwise you would not know how to use the Bible code which i might add also works with War and Pieace and Moby Dick witch is also included with the code breaking program alone with the tora , greek version of the bible the king james old , and king james new testament and they are in the original languages . The Tora is in hebrew and the greek version is in Greek and no i can't speak or read either and that is why there is also a translator with the program .

And just so you all know how stupid releasing crypto is ...

Even if the government has the keys for a crypto type there is no way of telling if the transfer of the currency is just a normal currency transfer or weather there is a messge encoded into it as it will not set off any alarms in the servers that monitor the net as they look for words and phrases and if they are not any words or messages then the system does not pick up on it .

Now seeing as all those that have spoken so far about this are not mining crypto with a miner or there GPU's i would suggest you actullay find out more about it .

And finally it does not matter if the government has the keys as one of the big problems with crypto is it allow criminals and terrorists to fund there operations even if they are not using them to send messages.

I would suggest you go to Blockchain and then look at how much some of the transactions are and where they come from as you will quickly see that quite often they orininate from the middle of the ocean where there are no country's .
You also can not shut the network down now why , well find out how it all works and then you might start to understand why it's a very big mistake by the greedy little ........ that think it's ok to do something like this and all for the real reason of profit and not freedom
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Message 1652998 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:15:03 UTC

Since infinitely many private keys can be made, no government could possess them all.
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Message 1653003 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:30:07 UTC - in response to Message 1652998.  

Serge in the case of crypto is doesn't realy matter about the keys mate as the system that monitors it will not pick it up no alarms will be set off as they won't be able to tell if it a normal transaction or actually a set of messages and think about this one too i can send you a block and then you can send it back to me with a reply to what ever message i put with it and we can keep doing that all day and it won't cost any more than buying the original block chain so it's also free unlike mobile phones or skype or any of the other ways you can send messages and it's totally safe unlike other forms of communication .


VERY BIG MISTAKE SHAME ON YOU America
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Message 1653005 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:32:59 UTC - in response to Message 1652998.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2015, 22:38:13 UTC

Since infinitely many private keys can be made, no government could possess them all.

Nonsense!
My source is this but it's in Postscript format so I will explain later if some wants to.
•Paper by Ravi Ganesan and Alan T. Sherman: Statistical Techniques for Language Recognition
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/pub/REPORTS/cs-93-02.ps
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Message 1653008 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:40:03 UTC - in response to Message 1653003.  

Serge in the case of crypto is doesn't realy matter about the keys mate as the system that monitors it will not pick it up no alarms will be set off as they won't be able to tell if it a normal transaction or actually a set of messages and think about this one too i can send you a block and then you can send it back to me with a reply to what ever message i put with it and we can keep doing that all day and it won't cost any more than buying the original block chain so it's also free unlike mobile phones or skype or any of the other ways you can send messages and it's totally safe unlike other forms of communication.

You are right Glenn.
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Message 1653010 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:42:30 UTC

Man O Live, Glenn Lectures, Admonishes, and Blames as Hustlin'Hussein and Madame Yoga dooz.

Well, I've been Notified of Expulsion from Savill U., fO Chanting The 'A' Word.

Wat a mO fOin' Shame.

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1653013 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:49:39 UTC - in response to Message 1653008.  

Thank's Jan good to see some of us have a brain mate . Pity the yanks only see dollar signs in everything otherwise they mite not have released crypto to the world but then that would have meant they had to use there brain which there not too good at .

AKA: SIGMA , ALPHA , GAMMER is the type of people that there education system produces otherwise known as MEAT HEADS
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Message 1653014 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:50:07 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2015, 22:52:46 UTC

It was not till the had the enigma machine that they where able to reprogram Collussus to break the codes quickly and make the information use full instead of being stale and useless .


They were reading the standard Enigma traffic well before Colossus. Alan Turing and his bombes along with poor practice by German operators allowed Enigma to be broken. They did have help from code books from submarines.

Colossus was only built to help crack "Tunny" messages which were used by the German high command.

The code was generated by a modified teleprinter called a Lorenz machine. It had 12 rotors. If you want to know how it was cracked look up John Tiltman and Bill Tutte.

Bill Tutte's sucess was described as "one of the greatest intellectual feats of World War II"

Colossus was built for one reason to find the start position for the Lorenz rotors, it decoded nothing , and yes they did see a Lorenz machine in 1945, just before the allied victory.
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Message 1653015 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:52:47 UTC - in response to Message 1652996.  

And I will say again, I took a class with one of those on the team that cracked Enigma. The probability that it's my errors is small.
http://www.ams.org/notices/201111/rtx111101538p.pdf

Then you could explain this to us ignorant people.
The Hilton-Milnor Formula
The Hilton-Hopf Invariants
Eckmann-Hilton Duality
H-Spaces and Localization

I give you a hint. As a matter of fact 12 hints:)
[1] B. Eckmann and P. Hilton, Groupes d’homotopie et dualité. Groupes absolus, C. R. Acad. Sci. Paris, 246 (1958), 2444–2447.
[2] , Groupes d’homotopie et dualité. Suites exactes, C. R. Acad. Sci. Paris, 246 (1958), 2555–2558.
[3] , Groupes d’homotopie et dualité. Coefficients, C. R. Acad. Sci. Paris, 246 (1958), 2991–2993.
[4] , Group-like structures in general categories I. Multiplications and comultiplications, Math. Ann. 145 (1962), 227–255.
[5] , Group-like structures in general categories II. Equalizers, limits, length, Math. Ann. 151 (1963), 150–186.
[6] , Group-like structures in general categories III.Primitive categories, Math. Ann.150 (1963), 165– 187.
[7] P. Hilton, On the homotopy groups of the union of spheres, J. London Math. Soc. 30 (1955), 154–172.
[8] , On the homotopy type of compact polyhedra, Fund. Math. 61 (1967), 105–109.
[9] , The Grothendieck group of compact polyhedra, Fund. Math. 61 (1967), 199–214.
[10] P. Hilton, G. Mislin, and J. Roitberg, Localization of Nilpotent Groups and Spaces, Mathematics
[11] P. Hilton and J. Roitberg, On principal S3-bundles over spheres, Ann. Math. 90 (1969), 91–107.
[12] J. Milnor, The construction FK, mimeographed lecture notes from Princeton University, 1956.
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Message 1653029 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 23:20:47 UTC - in response to Message 1653014.  

Bernie the point about the Enigma machine was simply the fact you guys nearly lost the war because of it . I know they had other forms of encryption but it was the subs that where doing the real damage and it was that code above all the others which if you had not broken would have lost you the war .

The big differance between to day and then is the computer . You can't use a computer to break the 256 bit encryption of crypto currency's in a timely manner there fore any info is stale and useless which is the real lesson of the enigma machine not how it was made but the fact it made it extremely hard for the allies to know what the enemy was doing and is now even harder as the codes are design'd to not be broken quickly enough to be use full so crypto is not only bad for us to know what the crim's or terrorists are doing ,but we can't even stop there money flow.
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