Dr.Carl Sagan Co-founder of SETI Knew That "UFOS were real"

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Message 1652754 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 6:20:22 UTC

Globally renowned astronomer, astrophysicist and designer of famous Pioneer 10 NASA Solar System Spacecraft Gold Plaque. He had also head the committee to select the contents for Voyager Golden Record.

He is so well respected in scientific community till this date and Nasa even named their 2008 'Study of Extraterrestrial Worlds scholarship' after Mr Sagan.

The pillar of modern space science Dr. Carl Sagan revealed to Dr. J. Allen Hynek that he believed UFOs were real. Sagan said to Hynek, that he knew UFOs were real but could not talk publicly about the matter and possibly risk the loss of academic funding.

Renowned astronomer and astrophysicist Dr. Carl Sagan revealed to Dr. J. Allen Hynek that he believed UFOs were real but avoided any public statements to prevent the loss of academic research funding. Dr. Allen J. Hynek confided his revelations about Dr Sagan to his former associate Paolo Harris who revealed this conversation recently

In an interview with research journalist and author Paola Leopizzi-Harris she said :

“My recollection is that Hynek said it was backstage of one of the many Johnny Carson Tonight shows Sagan did. He basically said (to Hynek) in 1984, ‘I know UFOs are real, but I would not risk my research (College) funding, as you do, to talk openly about them in public.’ ”

This startling revelation about Carl Sagan, one of this century’s most esteemed scientists and writers, has now been made public by Paola Leopizzi-Harris, a former associate of Dr. Allen J. Hynek who worked with him from 1980 to 1985.

Dr. J. Allen Hynek served as a civilian scientific consultant to the U.S. Air Force Project Blue Book from 1952 to 1969, initially taking a very critical and skeptical position on anything related to the reality of UFOs. In one of his own reports he stated:

"I had started out as an outright 'debunker,' taking great joy in cracking what seemed at first to be puzzling cases. I was the arch-enemy of those 'flying saucer groups and enthusiasts' who very dearly wanted UFOs to be interplanetary.” (Hynek, J. Allen. "The Hynek UFO Report". Dell Publishing Co. 1977)

After leaving Project Blue Book - the U.S. Air Force’s pseudo-investigatory public relations scheme on UFOs, Hynek later wrote:

"Now, however, documentation which puts the UFO-U.S. government controversy in quite a new light has become available. The (UFO) authors have made revealing use of documents released through the mechanism of the Freedom of Information Act and other data which have been made available to them… which show that the CIA and NSA protestations of innocence and lack of interest in UFOs are nothing short of prevarication."

Hynek went on to say: "For the government to continue to maintain that UFOs are nonexistent in the face of the documents already released and of other cogent evidence presented in this book is puerile and in a sense an insult to the American people." ("The UFO Cover-Up." Fireside books, Simon & Schuster 1984)

Hynek’s credentials are indeed impressive, having consulted on the Stephen Spielberg movie 'Close Encounters'. As well he presented a paper on UFOs at the UN in 1978. (All Experts)

Sagan’s link to UFOs and possibly to Dr. Hynek occurred in 1966 when Sagan was a member of the Ad Hoc Committee to Review Project Blue Book. This committee concluded that the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book had been lacking as a scientific study, and recommended a university-based project to give the UFO phenomenon closer scientific scrutiny.

In scientific circles much of Sagan’s notoriety came from debates conducted under the auspices of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). In 1969 he challenged J. Allen Hynek on whether investigations of unidentified flying objects should be considered serious. Hynek argued 'yes' Sagan 'no' (NNDB)

Sagan was a prolific writer of some 20 books including 'Contact' – eventually made into a movie staring Jodie Foster. Sagan also hosted the brilliantly crafted and highly popular series COSMOS: A Personal Voyage. In Episode 12: “Encyclopedia Galactica”, Sagan explored UFOs and alien abductions while also including ‘refutations’ on UFOs.

In a statement at the 1968 Congressional Hearings before the House Committee on Science and Astronautics - U.S. House of Representatives Carl Sagan stated:

“As I understand what the committee would like from me, is a discussion of the likelihood of intelligent extraterrestrial life… clearly it is the hypothesis that unidentified objects are of extraterrestrial origin which the committee must have in mind. I'm delighted to tell about contemporary scientific thinking along these lines, but let me begin by saying that I do not think the evidence is at all persuasive, that UFO's are of intelligent extraterrestrial origin...”

Sagan’s confidential conversation with Dr. Hynek in 1984 appears to not only contradict this statement to the House Committee in 1968, Sagan’s new found view - that UFOs were real - clearly did not play any role in Sagan’s later highly successful public work.

This revelation by Paola Leopizzi-Harris appears to raise serious scientific discrepancies concerning Sagan’s public verses private beliefs about the nature of UFOs and Extraterrestrial life.

It appears, therefore that Carl Sagan presumably embarked upon his many television appearances, consulting on major television and Hollywood feature productions as well as his own academic writing while professing one public scientific point of view, yet maintaining a significantly contradictory personal belief – “I know UFOs are real…” as told to Dr. J. Allen Hynek in 1984 according to Paola Leopizzi-Harris.

In later years Sagan also heavily promoted SETI - the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, which discounts UFOs as an ET reality - advancing the theory that listening for signals from deep space may help locate intelligent ET civilizations.

It is unknown how long Sagan held this personal view or when and what changed his mind – future disclosures may reveal this. That Sagan presented much of his finest and most popular work outside the context of his personal belief that UFOs were real remains a salient incongruity for a man of Sagan’s stature, obvious integrity and celebratory contributions to humanity and science.

One can only speculate upon why, during the period between Sagan’s initial statement in 1968 and all during his now legendary writings and media productions, Sagan continued to espouse critical views on the reality of UFOs. Why did his views change so dramatically? Did funding issues alone motivate him not to come forward publicly to declare his change-of-mind?

This revelation made to Paola Leopizzi-Harris by a well-respected scientific figure like Dr. J. Allen Hynek alters if not the magnificent quality of Sagan’s work but re-constructs his considerable scientific influence on the mainstream scientific theories about the universe, the intelligent nature of UFOs and Extraterrestrial life.

How will mainstream science respond knowing now that a corner stone of modern science and one of its most revered members is now recognized as to have conceded - UFOs are real..

Down below is Dr.Carl Sagan famous speech "We Are Here,The Pale Blue Dot "
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Message 1652755 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 6:23:45 UTC

https://youtu.be/2pfwY2TNehw YouTube link to "the Pale Blue Dot
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Message 1652770 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 7:25:31 UTC - in response to Message 1652755.  

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Message 1652793 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 9:37:35 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2015, 9:38:43 UTC

Beautiful! Don't know if this thread would fit better in the Science corner but I love it!

I will move it to Seti Science now..
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Message 1652809 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 10:11:12 UTC

99.9% of all UFO sightings can be explained away. The problem is that some of those will have been from top secret military activities which cannot be admitted to for national security reasons. The remaining 0.1% are beyond our current understanding, and are filed away as "not known at this time".

That 0.1% may well be of ET origin, I am prepared to believe that is possible, but they will not be manned craft, no ET would take the risk of one being captured or shot down. They will be remote controlled drones of some kind. The nearest star system is Alpha Centauri at 4.37 light-years, in which case they must be being launched and controlled from somewhere within our Solar system. Could be an orbiting mother ship or a ground based installation somewhere.

But they wouldn't want to be found would they. The Star Trek Klingons used cloaking, and even James Bond had a radar jamming cloaking device in Moonraker.

Mathew 7:7 Seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
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Message 1652818 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 11:22:55 UTC - in response to Message 1652809.  

99.9% of all UFO sightings can be explained away. The problem is that some of those will have been from top secret military activities which cannot be admitted to for national security reasons. The remaining 0.1% are beyond our current understanding, and are filed away as "not known at this time".

That 0.1% may well be of ET origin, I am prepared to believe that is possible, but they will not be manned craft, no ET would take the risk of one being captured or shot down. They will be remote controlled drones of some kind. The nearest star system is Alpha Centauri at 4.37 light-years, in which case they must be being launched and controlled from somewhere within our Solar system. Could be an orbiting mother ship or a ground based installation somewhere.

But they wouldn't want to be found would they. The Star Trek Klingons used cloaking, and even James Bond had a radar jamming cloaking device in Moonraker.

Mathew 7:7 Seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:


Nice!
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Message 1653065 - Posted: 15 Mar 2015, 1:44:32 UTC

Lots of us "know" some UFOs are real. But so far no one has been able to prove it to the scientific community. Unfortunately saying it doesn't make it so.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1653133 - Posted: 15 Mar 2015, 10:32:03 UTC

Lots of us "know" some UFOs are real

I prefer to think that some of us have seen phenomenons that simply cannot be explained by any rational logic, or scientific knowledge that we currently have. Therefore it is very tempting to conclude that these phenomenons must be of an extra terrestrial origin, rather than secret military activity, or a breakthrough in physics that we haven't yet made.

UFO's are like God. Nobody can prove either exist or don't exist. It is up to the individual to decide how they feel about it, and what they choose to believe.

Some commentators say that since WWII we've had Dan Dare comics, all the sci fi films etc, 2001, Star Wars, Star Trek, it's almost as if the worlds population is being "conditioned" to accept that ET exists, to ease the transition when it does happen.

Ooooh lookee, a conspiracy theory ..... :-))))
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Message 1654032 - Posted: 18 Mar 2015, 7:34:21 UTC

UFO reports for U.S. and Canada
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1654087 - Posted: 18 Mar 2015, 10:57:43 UTC

In 2014, the Economist used the statistics compiled by the organisation to analyse 'peak times' for UFO reports, drawing the conclusion that most reports came during the hours during which people were most likely to be intoxicated

NUFORC
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Message 1658657 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 9:22:00 UTC
Last modified: 29 Mar 2015, 9:52:23 UTC

Oh, sorry about that.

It was the end of a long day.

I started up here a short while ago and need a cup of coffee first.

But should say that when making postings here, the default font is slightly large and there is not room for long lines or specific results.

This may be common between different web-pages (do not have the better word for this right now). They also were complaining about some long lines at Mersenneforum.org which went outside the width of the screen.

For the usual 1024 * 768 resolution, I can have 125 single letters visible on a line in one instant.

Using Yafu and inputting the command rand(4096), it apparently is able to take all except the last two digits into the buffer. Therefore I need to make a file of it instead and for the number I got here, the Yafu-x64 did not like it, so I try factorizing it using Yafu-win32 instead.

Also there is a difference between output or result and input. If the Yafu factorization outputs a number as a result of a given computation, it does in fact not know or remember this number when doing so. It has to be input once again in order to become subject to even more computing.

Because you take something for granted, like numbers, it is more easy to speak or talk about it without everything becoming a controversial subject?

Anyone should know that the subject of UFO's has become a recognized phenomenon right now. We assume that this thing is for real, but are still unable to give a complete explanation for this phenomenon.

UFO's have been observed and recorded by means of video by astronauts above the surface of the Moon. They may be single, in pairs, or even several visible at once. Therefore thay may be regarded as being entities.

Also they are known to be able to both split as well as merge at given times.

You may perhaps know that I may have seen these things myself. They are definitely part of nature, although not necessarily always present or visible. To me it did not become the sensational thing, because it never became the mothership I saw.

So, is there difference between doing science on a given thing or perhaps make a popularization about the same by means of a movie production?

The movie production "Close Encounter of a third kind" should be regarded as being perhaps the best attempt at doing this thing. Because the production now has become a couple of years old, you may perhaps think of it being pure entertainment meant for relaxation and not for your usual way of living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxp32VHaYdE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Kgzn3tDQU

Losing sound here during playback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHN1RIK8Tkg

Using Google and the Wikipedia for this, it tells me that the production is now some 37-38 years old (1977).

Apparently time flies, but my recall for now is that this movie came in two versions, where the director, Steven Spielberg, was able to come to the magnificent and spectacular conclusion in the second version.

So, because you are watching a movie supposedly meant for the purpose of relaxation and entertainment, are what we are able to see based on possible facts, regardless of being of scientific value or not?

Science is about making a difference between possible fiction and proven facts.

Definitely Steven Spielberg beats George Lucas on these things when it comes to quality of movie productions.

So, if I happen to speculate about such things like UFO's and the like, what may the response eventually be? We may be back to the possible different approaches regarding these things which have been mentioned before.

Regardless of your possible attitude and possible controveries which may be related to this as well, it is still about doing the subject of science.

Doing science is about making research into things which are still unknown or unexplained and whether or not it is about Tarot cards, or possibly something else or completely different, it is still left to the scientists to give a possible explanation about such phenomena when they are happening.
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Message 1658689 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 10:56:28 UTC
Last modified: 29 Mar 2015, 11:21:09 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HKlFHUlnrM

Perhaps I should need some potato chip for better enjoying this scene.

Those funny little things hardly are able at even stand on their feet. Possibly they are not subjected to the force of gravity most of the time.

Even the small boy, who I do not have the name for, seems stunned and startled by what he are able to see.

Is our acknowledgment of what we may possibly be able to recognize based on what we rather may be able to see, or is it perhaps by means of listening to the music being performed instead?

Are any of these things based on scientifically recognized facts, or is it still pure fiction?

Perhaps fiction and entertainment are not always the same things either.

At least the little boy is able to say "Goodbye".

And now the little tone becomes a big musical performance, ending in a finishing close of the movie showing quality and ideas worth the money watching the whole thing.

Thanks to Steven Spielberg for all of this.

He has given us something we otherwise would have to be looking for elsewhere.
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Message 1658721 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 12:28:59 UTC

I always cry watching that, I'm a silly old bugger at times .....
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Message 1658724 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 12:35:44 UTC

I have watched "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" so many times that I almost know the script. As I have never had an encounter of any kind with aliens I don't know whether the portrayal of ET in the movie was accurate or not. For me it was just good entertainment.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1658731 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 12:49:53 UTC

Yes of course it was a film written by an author and directed and produced. But it was done in a way that tugged at the emotions. |It depicted what a peaceful encounter could be like, rather than the Sci Fi War of the Worlds scenario with Klingons. Just gets to me that's all.

Silly really.
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Message boards : SETI@home Science : Dr.Carl Sagan Co-founder of SETI Knew That "UFOS were real"


 
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