Absolute Power

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Message 1647916 - Posted: 28 Feb 2015, 18:47:40 UTC

Does it, in fact, corrupt? Absolutely?
Check out this wonderful, double-blind study: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-mDhg09pcw.
Hmmm, the "most sadistic" of the guards was very much into theater at the time.
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Message 1647999 - Posted: 28 Feb 2015, 22:22:27 UTC
Last modified: 28 Feb 2015, 22:23:18 UTC

Philip Zimbardo knows how easy it is for nice people to turn bad. In this talk, he shares insights and graphic unseen photos from the Abu Ghraib trials. Then he talks about the flip side: how easy it is to be a hero, and how we can rise to the challenge.
http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil
The Stanford Prison Experiment again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZwfNs1pqG0
Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0jYx8nwjFQ
Reaction To Women Abusing Men In Public
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks
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Message 1648220 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 16:40:36 UTC - in response to Message 1648149.  

He was probably cheating on her, so I expect he deserved it, that sort of attitude. But imagine a massive row in a restaurant where the woman totally loses it and starts attacking the man with a knife causing injuries. Fearing for his life he lays her out with a punch to protect himself. Guess who will go down for GBH?

What jurisdiction? Because it does make a difference.
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Message 1648224 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 16:45:19 UTC - in response to Message 1648149.  

He was probably cheating on her, so I expect he deserved it, that sort of attitude. But imagine a massive row in a restaurant where the woman totally loses it and starts attacking the man with a knife causing injuries. Fearing for his life he lays her out with a punch to protect himself. Guess who will go down for GBH?

The woman, no doubt about that, or have you forgotten the witnesses in your scenario, also not forgetting his injuries?
Thank god you're not serving as a juror!
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Message 1648232 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 16:58:49 UTC - in response to Message 1648230.  
Last modified: 1 Mar 2015, 17:08:20 UTC

With the current scourge on knife attacks, he'd walk away a free man. Over the past several years in this city alone, several women have been sent down for those very type of attacks you've mentioned.

Google them for yourself.
And lucky for them as well, I'd bring back capital punishment and give the lot life sentences!!!

So you'd hang them, then throw their corpses in the cells as warnings to others...that might work :-)
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Message 1648237 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 17:18:30 UTC - in response to Message 1648236.  
Last modified: 1 Mar 2015, 17:22:50 UTC

So google some more, or better try the Wiki :-)

BTW, Peterborough is a city :-)
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Message 1648594 - Posted: 2 Mar 2015, 22:09:10 UTC

Just down the road from this famous 474 year old "town", absolute power in effect, but the silly billy got caught...

Serco guard suspended! Should've been sacked!

However, was that guard male or female? It would be interesting to know.
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Message 1648642 - Posted: 3 Mar 2015, 1:18:09 UTC - in response to Message 1648594.  
Last modified: 3 Mar 2015, 1:25:18 UTC

Just down the road from this famous 474 year old "town", absolute power in effect, but the silly billy got caught...

Serco guard suspended! Should've been sacked!

However, was that guard male or female? It would be interesting to know.


My sister visited Yarl's wood detention centre once a month every month for two and half years. Donations (made by parishioners of local churches) intended for detainees, rarely if ever reached them however. Women detainees, some barely old enough to be considered adults, were regularly sexually harrassed or worse.

Male guards definitely made up the majority throughout that time. My sister's view of them was that they would be very intimidating to work with, let alone be subordinate to. When the church outreach mission raised the matter with outside authorities... they were given this very same statement quoted in your link...

Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons has found the Centre to be a safe and respectful place.

When the mission head took their concerns further, their visits were effectively halted although never "officially". To my knowledge - they have not gained entry since last October. My sister's overall impression, (if Yarl's Wood is anything like a benchmark) of the way asylum seekers are treated in the UK... is not good at all. That they are grateful for even that... and for the few hours of assistance with literacy that the mission group provided them... and for just seeing an English face prepared to smile back at them... was what my sister found to be the most humbling part of her time spent there.

edit: I will temper the above though... because no doubt she will be doing something similar once she has settled in India... it will be interesting to compare her impressions...
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Message 1648823 - Posted: 3 Mar 2015, 16:02:40 UTC - in response to Message 1648642.  

When the mission head took their concerns further, their visits were effectively halted although never "officially". To my knowledge - they have not gained entry since last October. My sister's overall impression, (if Yarl's Wood is anything like a benchmark) of the way asylum seekers are treated in the UK... is not good at all.

I can believe that without hesitating!

I used to cover both sides of the A14 in the Cambridge area & one of the drops was RAF Oakington which at that time had become the immigration centre for this region.

I was often there for at least 20/30 minutes due to the volume of goods being delivered. I covered that run for 2 years but after one particular week, I had seen things I did not like & complained to one of the security guys who I knew personally.

The following week, my run was quicker & lighter as the company had taken Oakington off the list - it became a dedicated drop in itself by a van.

When I enquired as to why, I was told by my transport manager that I was not allowed on site by the security company. Reason given? Driving too fast!

FYI - the maximum speed anywhere on that base was 10mph which I never exceeded.

It's now closed down. I wonder why?
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Message 1648827 - Posted: 3 Mar 2015, 16:26:06 UTC - in response to Message 1648825.  

Oakington


"The centre received repeated criticisms from the Prisons Inspector and from others regarding safety of children and adults detained there. In January 2008, it was announced that the centre was the second worst in the country."

Many here scoff at the actions of other countries, meanwhile at home...
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Message 1648831 - Posted: 3 Mar 2015, 16:35:45 UTC - in response to Message 1648827.  

Many here scoff at the actions of other countries, meanwhile at home...

They follow the fine example of the private US prisons, where profit is king and abuse is how it is made.
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Message 1648832 - Posted: 3 Mar 2015, 16:37:08 UTC - in response to Message 1648831.  

Many here scoff at the actions of other countries, meanwhile at home...

They follow the fine example of the private US prisons, where profit is king and abuse is how it is made.

& we have the nerve to call ourselves civilised!
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Message 1648914 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 0:08:19 UTC

Interesting side-discussion, about power and gender in relationships. But that was not the source of my initial post, nor was janneseti's response restricted to that.

Clyde, and others, did/do make the claim that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I suspect that is an old old statement. One that did not really get tested until recent times. (Previous evidence would have been anecdotal.) Also, I am suggesting the possibility that there were flaws in the study referred to in the video for which I provided a link.
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Message 1648940 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 2:01:09 UTC - in response to Message 1648937.  

Are Humans perfect?

How much power would you give to imperfect persons? Or any organization run by them?

What is the sound of one hand clapping?
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Message 1648973 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 4:43:44 UTC - in response to Message 1648937.  

Are Humans perfect?

How much power would you give to imperfect persons? Or any organization run by them?


This is your chance to make your case. Provide your evidence.
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Message 1649152 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 15:48:16 UTC - in response to Message 1648914.  
Last modified: 4 Mar 2015, 15:52:23 UTC

Interesting side-discussion, about power and gender in relationships. But that was not the source of my initial post, nor was janneseti's response restricted to that.

Yes. Please back to the topic.
Philip Zimbardo's experiments is about behaviors when authorities make others to do things that they normally wouldn't do.
I saw an other docu where the test people was in the impression that they was part of a science project. They where given instructions from white coated men to submit electrical charges to persons they couldn't see, only hear them.
The white coated men came back and forth and said that you should increase the current. Most people did that despite hearing the screams from the other room.
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Message 1649269 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 20:18:06 UTC - in response to Message 1649017.  

Are Humans perfect?

How much power would you give to imperfect persons? Or any organization run by them?


This is your chance to make your case. Provide your evidence.

Evidence that Humans are not perfect, and do bad things?

You are refuting that?

You are refuting that Evil In Power, is more dangerous, than Evil Not In Power?

Are you kidding?

Sorry...

Won't play that silly Academic Game of yours.

That silly, very mind numbing game, was attempted on me, for over 20 years in Academia, with no success. My students loved me for not playing that ridiculous game. They understood, but were afraid not to play it.

Why Students, in a supposed Liberal Arts University, were afraid to say what they really thought, to Left Wing Zealot Professors and Administrators (and I was repeatedly threatened, if I did not accept THEIR beliefs), should be part of another Thread.

Question: All Humans are Pure?


Funny, it seems to me that you are the one playing the question game. Why don't you search my posts and figure out if I think humans are pure?
Meantime, since you don't, is it because of evolution, or did God make us not pure and we made a bad choice? Original sin?

How much further would you like to drive this away from your fundamental argument?
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Message 1649270 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 20:20:13 UTC - in response to Message 1649152.  

Interesting side-discussion, about power and gender in relationships. But that was not the source of my initial post, nor was janneseti's response restricted to that.

Yes. Please back to the topic.
Philip Zimbardo's experiments is about behaviors when authorities make others to do things that they normally wouldn't do.
I saw an other docu where the test people was in the impression that they was part of a science project. They where given instructions from white coated men to submit electrical charges to persons they couldn't see, only hear them.
The white coated men came back and forth and said that you should increase the current. Most people did that despite hearing the screams from the other room.


janneseti, in the video I linked, do you see a potential flaw in the study?
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Message 1649279 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 20:28:36 UTC

P.S.-wonderful job, trying to continue to spread the lie about how all university profs are libs libs libs. If I didn't respect the privacy of my colleagues, I'd post pix of their "Romney/Ryan" bumper stickers, the "Obama: most polarizing president ... EVER" posters on their doors, their ads on their doors for the Catholic Church services and "Life is Precious" posters, audio or video recordings of the Obama jokes made.

Yeah, keep up the lie. FOX News must love it.
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Message 1649280 - Posted: 4 Mar 2015, 20:31:27 UTC - in response to Message 1649270.  

janneseti, in the video I linked, do you see a potential flaw in the study?

Not everyone sees the same things as others, so rather than hinting at any possible/potential flaw, why not point it out for discussion?
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