Splitting an internet feed

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Message 1644898 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 13:54:33 UTC

If one of your existing routers will act as a Power over Ethernet source then a POE powered switch, router or hub will do the job, without the need for more mains spaghetti
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Message 1644902 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 14:05:15 UTC

I dunno, Chris...
I have 9 computers that most of the time, happily share my internet connection.
I have a modem...which goes into an 8 port router. I have 9 rigs, so one port goes into a little 4 port switch, which 2 rigs also share. It is pretty seamless, until a power outage, in which case I have to reboot every rig to get them to see things right again. Something about internal IP addys just gets messed up.
It all sorts itself when I reboot everything. I have never gone into the works of XP to manually assign anything.
I dunno if my computers can talk to one another...LOL.
They do not need to.
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Message 1644903 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 14:08:57 UTC - in response to Message 1644897.  
Last modified: 21 Feb 2015, 14:18:07 UTC

I had to look up what a doubler is since I have never used one, but I think I see your problem, or you didn't explain it completely.

You need a doubler in both rooms. From your router you need 2 ports and 2 cables to the doubler, then into your power line adaptor. Then in the other room, your power line adaptor to doubler, then to your TV and PVR.

EDIT: I'm assuming your power line adaptor only has 1 port since you are using a doubler.

Doubler Images
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Message 1644917 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 14:46:42 UTC - in response to Message 1644903.  
Last modified: 21 Feb 2015, 15:01:20 UTC

I had to look up what a doubler is since I have never used one, but I think I see your problem, or you didn't explain it completely.

You need a doubler in both rooms. From your router you need 2 ports and 2 cables to the doubler, then into your power line adaptor. Then in the other room, your power line adaptor to doubler, then to your TV and PVR...

Ouch!

Good scope for confusion all round here!


Trying to be brief (tech detail can follow if wanted):

"Doublers" that allow two physical (4-core) ethernet connections to be used down one cable only work for 10/100Mbit/s and only if you have a physical full 8-core ethernet cable between the 'doublers'. That cannot work over powerline adapters in the middle. (Note that gigabit requires that all 8 cores be available.)


There are also 'doublers' that replicate the connections as is done for such as telephone multiway adapters. They simply do not work for normal network devices. (At least not in the expected way as wanted. They can be used in special cases, but to do that, you must already know how it all works. Not worth the silliness.)


The normal way to connect multiple ethernet devices together is to use a powered network switch or a powered router. Hence why they have multiple individual ports.


Sorry but the simplest reliable way is to use a small £10 4 or 5 port desktop switch (with its power adapter) to connect your two devices together and also to your powerline adapter.

(Ethernet is a data packet switched system. That is quite different to a line switched or circuit switched system as is commonly understood for things like old-style POTS telephones.)


Good luck,
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Message 1644924 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 14:57:18 UTC - in response to Message 1644903.  

I doubt that would work over a powerline adapter.

Start by understanding what 'traditional' twisted-pair cabling does, and how it works. The 'standard' - normally shortened to 'Cat5', although other numbers are available - has four pairs of wires, eight conductors in all.

Computer networking - Ethernet - uses two pairs of wires, one pair to talk, and one pair to listen. That's four wires, and the standard requires that they be connected to pins 1 and 2, 3 and 6.

The other two pairs - 4 and 5, 7 and 8 - might be used in a big office for telephony and power, respectively. But in a simple networking-only environment, they aren't used at all.

What a doubler does is to redirect the two spare pairs onto pins 1,2,3,6 of the second RJ45 socket - and back again at the other end. It works if you have a good bit of Cat5 cable with all four conductor-pairs intact, but I very much doubt that a powerline adapter would be designed to be transparent on all 8 wires: it will have active transponders at each end, only looking for ethernet signals on the 'official' pairs.

All you need is the simplest multi-port switch in the TV room. I can remember my first 4-port 'fast' (100 Mbit) switch cost over £100, now you can get them for £7-£8. They do need to be powered - usually a mains wall-wart - but I found this USB-Powerable-Ultra-Compact-Ethernet-Switch for £20. Others may be available - I haven't done an exhaustive search.
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Message 1644931 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:09:58 UTC

I have a two wire cable running across the basement floor to the crunching den.
Two wires. I hooked them up myself. Every bit I crunch and the back and forth goes across those two 24 guage wires.

I simply don't know what all the hubbub is about. Maybe I have been 'lucky'?

One copper pair.
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Message 1644934 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:17:01 UTC - in response to Message 1644931.  

That would be your telephone line, not Ethernet. Telephone only requires 2 wires. Then your IDSN/DSL modem will make Ethernet out of it.
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Message 1644936 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:20:32 UTC - in response to Message 1644934.  

That would be your telephone line, not Ethernet. Telephone only requires 2 wires. Then your IDSN/DSL modem will make Ethernet out of it.

Exactly my point.
DSL only needs two wires.
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Message 1644942 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:31:49 UTC

I'm not sure what this "doubler" device you have purchases is, but it doesn't sound like a standard piece of network equipment to me. Unless it is a small 2 port hub/switch I wouldn't expect it to actually work.
From what other have posted I suspect what you have purchases is meant more for splitting a phone jack out for multiple devices.

I took an old 8 port switch I had laying around & put it in my TV stand to account for the growing number of internet devices I have there. I'm currently only up to 4. However, I suspect my next TV & surround receiver will have the ability to connect to the internet as well for various functions.
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Message 1644944 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:35:01 UTC - in response to Message 1644936.  

That would be your telephone line, not Ethernet. Telephone only requires 2 wires. Then your IDSN/DSL modem will make Ethernet out of it.

Exactly my point.
DSL only needs two wires.

But you can't split a DSL service, with two separate routers in separate rooms, to support two groups of computers (or computer-like equipment) in separate areas of the house.

Yours only works because all the computers are in the same room.

@ Chris, an alternative solution would be to get a Wireless Access Point (which usually has spare hard-wired sockets as well) to give you both better wireless coverage in the TV room, and connect your TV and PVR at the same time. I'm using a Netgear WN 604 for that, around £30. Connect the WAP to the main house router over the powerline adapters.
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Message 1644948 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:47:22 UTC - in response to Message 1644944.  

I could easily tap another line into the bedroom for another computer.
I think I understand what you are saying..........
I cannot split the trunk line.
Once into the router, however I can then, split it after the fact and feed it to almost an unlimited number of computers.
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Message 1644950 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:51:42 UTC - in response to Message 1644946.  

If it's a true ethernet doubler (rather than a telephony break-out adapter), it should have a wiring diagram like this:



I thought I had some of these



at home, left over from my pre-retirement consultancy days, but I tidied up before Chris visited last year, and I can't quickly find which box they went into.
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Message 1644951 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:53:13 UTC - in response to Message 1644948.  

I could easily tap another line into the bedroom for another computer.
I think I understand what you are saying..........
I cannot split the trunk line.
Once into the router, however I can then, split it after the fact and feed it to almost an unlimited number of computers.

Exactly correct.
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Message 1644954 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 15:56:13 UTC - in response to Message 1644948.  

Chris, what you have now has a "slim chance" of working IF the powerline adaptor supports "Full Duplex" but I doubt it.

Just make sure you try it with 2 wires in and out.
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Message 1644959 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 16:06:37 UTC - in response to Message 1644954.  

this is what i use to have 4 computers on 1 internet connection

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-5-Port-Unmanaged-Desktop-DES-1005E/dp/B003WOWB5S


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Message 1644963 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 16:09:32 UTC - in response to Message 1644951.  

I could easily tap another line into the bedroom for another computer.
I think I understand what you are saying..........
I cannot split the trunk line.
Once into the router, however I can then, split it after the fact and feed it to almost an unlimited number of computers.

Exactly correct.

Glad I have it sorted then. And thank you for your input, Richard.
I just hooked everything up years ago and it all worked.
I did have my router fail a while ago, and it whacked everything.
It was all I could do, running the modem directly into my daily driver, to get back online and get another router.
I have a spare one now...Not going to go there again.
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Message 1644983 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 17:14:09 UTC

I Have a HD TV with an RJ45 connection which I can set up via the settings - assuming that all modern TV's now have the same connections, why not use a wireless adapter to pick up the net from the router?
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Message 1644985 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 17:23:17 UTC - in response to Message 1644983.  

I Have a HD TV with an RJ45 connection which I can set up via the settings - assuming that all modern TV's now have the same connections, why not use a wireless adapter to pick up the net from the router?


Personally, I get enough of the neighbors when I walk out of the door an go to work. Their dead stares are enough.
I am sure some of them wish I would get wifi so they could snoop further.
It IS now possible to snoop RFI.

Keep sniffing, biatches. Keep sniffing.
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Message 1645225 - Posted: 22 Feb 2015, 8:35:53 UTC
Last modified: 22 Feb 2015, 8:44:23 UTC

If you lack the connections you need to connect to a router, there are only two ways to add connections. You can use a hub that is old school and will allow additional connection. It would be better to go with a switch. The hub will resolve the collision problems of two devices attempting to use the connection at the expense of speed. The switch buffers each connection avoiding the collision issue and delivers packets at maximum speed without collisions.
Token ring avoided the collision problem in days past and was far better but the cost were higher. Ethernet won the protocol battle because it's lower cost and then people started putting more devices on the network exposing the collision issue. Switches do what token ring accomplished but putting the cost back in the picture. You can think of it as another Beta vs VHS battle. The better protocol didn't win but with switches, ethernet is good enough.
As for wireless, I use both wired and wireless connections. Wireless on my portable devices but wired on my server system. I started out all wireless but I was having issues with the neighbors WIFI breaking the server connection causing the link to break and not reconnect. With a scanner program I found I had around 10 WIFI station using the lower WIFI band and I don't have the equipment to move to the higher band. Wireless connections require 3 or 6 channels for a single link which means at best you can only have 3 users on the lower channels. If you live in the country or can afford to switch to newer equipment all around, WIFI may be fine but I would recommend wired when possible. As for snooping WIFI, if you set up the encryption code, it would take a very long time for somebody to hack into it. I had a neighbor with an unsecured link but they got wise or moved out because I can no longer find the unsecured link.
As for splitting DSL, that will not work. DSL is point to point and doesn't allow for more than one modem per line.

How big is the mansion you live in? Normal ethernet should be able to handle the distance by downshifting speed. For TV updates 10 MB should be fine as I suspect your DSL link is slower than that. The link will only transfer data at the rate of the slowest part of your link.
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Message 1645448 - Posted: 22 Feb 2015, 23:36:18 UTC
Last modified: 22 Feb 2015, 23:38:02 UTC

Perhaps a little side note from the current discussion, but the type of cable is determining the speed at which data is being transferred.

I have a couple of cables lying around. Some are Cat5 cable meant for Internet use. One such cable is supposed to come through the wall from outside your flat or room and goes to the DSL modem. Right now I have switched my Internet provider to cable TV, so the intake is different than earlier.

It rests on the floor after the two men from the cable company drilled through the wall from the main room and into this room. Next a short cable goes another 2 metres from the modem to the PC. This cable is a Cat 5 network cable.

Assumedly this cable is being called twisted pair or something like that.

But compare with the cable for a telephone. Remember it can not be used for the web because of the slower speed, but it is only slightly thinner and may be either white or blueish/grayish in color.

Unlike the connector for a Cat 5 cable, the RJ-45 connectors on a telephone cable are just that slightly different in size in each of the endpoints.

A small point which I caught and should be an important one to remember.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Splitting an internet feed


 
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