Apple and China

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Message 1640842 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 18:47:18 UTC - in response to Message 1640840.  

Read it hours ago. It's not Apple's problem but those who purchase their goods.

Consumerism is good for you :-)
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Message 1640863 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 19:18:12 UTC

When did Apple buy the Factory? The report kept calling them Apple's Factories.
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Message 1640923 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 20:47:45 UTC

Apple is easing themselves out of China. I am not sure of the reason but I can guess it could be because of the political environment or how business operates. The proof is the new Mac Pro - their high end system is now manufactured in Texas. I suspect as they announce more systems that have major redesigns they will tool a factor in the United States instead of retooling in China.
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Message 1641062 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 3:04:31 UTC - in response to Message 1641040.  

Apple is easing themselves out of China. I am not sure of the reason but I can guess it could be because of the political environment or how business operates. The proof is the new Mac Pro - their high end system is now manufactured in Texas. I suspect as they announce more systems that have major redesigns they will tool a factor in the United States instead of retooling in China.

This has been reported previously.

However...

Apple is unique, because people will pay more for their products. Therefore it is not as important to have 'Chinese Prices', as most other businesses are forced to do.

Can most other Businesses emulate Apple, and possibly stop production in China? Don't believe so.

Could also be that Apple is concernd that China is atealing some tech secrets for its own use.
[/quote]

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Message 1641067 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 3:19:39 UTC - in response to Message 1641062.  

Apple is easing themselves out of China. I am not sure of the reason but I can guess it could be because of the political environment or how business operates. The proof is the new Mac Pro - their high end system is now manufactured in Texas. I suspect as they announce more systems that have major redesigns they will tool a factor in the United States instead of retooling in China.

This has been reported previously.

However...

Apple is unique, because people will pay more for their products. Therefore it is not as important to have 'Chinese Prices', as most other businesses are forced to do.

Can most other Businesses emulate Apple, and possibly stop production in China? Don't believe so.

Could also be that Apple is concernd that China is atealing some tech secrets for its own use.

It is also possible the China government could nationalize Apple's holdings. Before you say it's not possible, recall what happened in Cuba when Castro took over.
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Message 1641233 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 14:32:48 UTC - in response to Message 1641067.  

It is also possible the China government could nationalize Apple's holdings. Before you say it's not possible, recall what happened in Cuba when Castro took over.

But unlike Cuba, China's economy is build on foreign companies operating in China and bringing all that sweet sweet investors money to China. See what happens when China nationalizes all the holdings of foreign corporations. All further investments in China will stop instantly, and their economy goes up in smoke.
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Message 1641236 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 14:34:12 UTC - in response to Message 1641226.  

China is not, and has never been, a Lawful Country/Culture.

They can do as they wish.

Yeah, Chinese history begs to differ. China had laws long before Europe had.
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Message 1641242 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 14:38:16 UTC - in response to Message 1641239.  

Doesn't mean, because of their culture and history, they will not.

Country's, People's, Culture's, have always made 'incorrect' decisions.

Why not now? Nothing changes.

People make incorrect decisions when they can't clearly see what the consequences of their decision would be, or if they are blinded by ideology. Given that ideology plays only a minor role these days in Chinese high level decision making, and the consequences of such an action are beyond totally obvious, its pretty fair to say that they will not make the 'incorrect' decision.
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Message 1641624 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 1:39:00 UTC - in response to Message 1641233.  

It is also possible the China government could nationalize Apple's holdings. Before you say it's not possible, recall what happened in Cuba when Castro took over.

But unlike Cuba, China's economy is build on foreign companies operating in China and bringing all that sweet sweet investors money to China. See what happens when China nationalizes all the holdings of foreign corporations. All further investments in China will stop instantly, and their economy goes up in smoke.

Im not so sure about that. Japans industry was up in smoke after WW2. And as a young lad in the 50's most products that were imported into the US was considered junk. But they were great copiers of technology. They rebuilt ,Educated thir children, And now they seem to be leaders in tech and presicion machinery.
Would China be hurt if they did something stupid? Im sure they would. But they have the tech,the machinery and the know how to copy what ever they currently make.
The Chinese people have been through a lot in history.
That old saying what ever dosent kill you makes you stronger. I would bet China would come out stronger in the end.
[/quote]

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Message 1641767 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 8:58:56 UTC - in response to Message 1641624.  
Last modified: 14 Feb 2015, 8:59:33 UTC

Im not so sure about that. Japans industry was up in smoke after WW2. And as a young lad in the 50's most products that were imported into the US was considered junk. But they were great copiers of technology. They rebuilt ,Educated thir children, And now they seem to be leaders in tech and presicion machinery.
Would China be hurt if they did something stupid? Im sure they would. But they have the tech,the machinery and the know how to copy what ever they currently make.
The Chinese people have been through a lot in history.
That old saying what ever dosent kill you makes you stronger. I would bet China would come out stronger in the end.

The thing is, the Chinese system depends on good economic performance to keep people in line. The Chinese accept the current system because they see it works, its making them wealthier and gives them a strong position on this planet. If the Chinese economy collapses because they pulled off something stupid like this, and the system shows itself to be no longer capable of managing the economy, when peoples wealth takes a hit, how long would it take for the revolts to happen? For that simmering unhappiness to express itself? The Chinese government is keenly aware of this fact, so I don't think they would want to rock the boat to much. Especially if such a move has no apparent benefits.

Also, copying existing technology isn't necessarily something that would work.
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Message 1641774 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 9:11:24 UTC - in response to Message 1641767.  

Im not so sure about that. Japans industry was up in smoke after WW2. And as a young lad in the 50's most products that were imported into the US was considered junk. But they were great copiers of technology. They rebuilt ,Educated thir children, And now they seem to be leaders in tech and presicion machinery.
Would China be hurt if they did something stupid? Im sure they would. But they have the tech,the machinery and the know how to copy what ever they currently make.
The Chinese people have been through a lot in history.
That old saying what ever dosent kill you makes you stronger. I would bet China would come out stronger in the end.

The thing is, the Chinese system depends on good economic performance to keep people in line. The Chinese accept the current system because they see it works, its making them wealthier and gives them a strong position on this planet. If the Chinese economy collapses because they pulled off something stupid like this, and the system shows itself to be no longer capable of managing the economy, when peoples wealth takes a hit, how long would it take for the revolts to happen? For that simmering unhappiness to express itself? The Chinese government is keenly aware of this fact, so I don't think they would want to rock the boat to much. Especially if such a move has no apparent benefits.

Also, copying existing technology isn't necessarily something that would work.

Well China can also crush a revolution in a heart beat. They have the miltary to do it. And China made nuclear weapons. Even with stolen plans, It takes a very capable scientific base to produce one. China did. If its so easy why doesnt the rest of the world have them? And dont give me the crap about the treaty that says no one else can have one. Yeah Right, Everyone is honest on this rotten planet.
[/quote]

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Message 1641790 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 9:51:40 UTC - in response to Message 1641774.  

Well China can also crush a revolution in a heart beat. They have the miltary to do it. And China made nuclear weapons. Even with stolen plans, It takes a very capable scientific base to produce one. China did. If its so easy why doesnt the rest of the world have them? And dont give me the crap about the treaty that says no one else can have one. Yeah Right, Everyone is honest on this rotten planet.

Protests are easy to crush, revolutions on the other hand? Not so easy.

And China couldn't have gotten nuclear weapons without the help provided by the Soviet Union. So its not that easy. Furthermore, the real problem of a nuclear bomb is not the nuclear part. The physics behind that are by now well understood. The real problem is the delivery system. Having a bomb is one thing, but how are you gonna make sure that bomb explodes where you want it to explode. So you need to build nuclear bombers, or nuclear missiles.

Also, its very expensive to maintain a nuclear program that is geared towards nuclear arms production. It costs a lot of money, and the international political and diplomatic consequences are significant. Finally, a lot of countries fall under the nuclear umbrella of one or more nuclear powers, ensuring that if they should be attacked by nukes, someone has their backs. All that combined are enough reasons for most countries to just not bother with getting nuclear weapons on their own.
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Message 1641802 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 10:15:11 UTC - in response to Message 1641790.  

Well China can also crush a revolution in a heart beat. They have the miltary to do it. And China made nuclear weapons. Even with stolen plans, It takes a very capable scientific base to produce one. China did. If its so easy why doesnt the rest of the world have them? And dont give me the crap about the treaty that says no one else can have one. Yeah Right, Everyone is honest on this rotten planet.

Protests are easy to crush, revolutions on the other hand? Not so easy.

And China couldn't have gotten nuclear weapons without the help provided by the Soviet Union. So its not that easy. Furthermore, the real problem of a nuclear bomb is not the nuclear part. The physics behind that are by now well understood. The real problem is the delivery system. Having a bomb is one thing, but how are you gonna make sure that bomb explodes where you want it to explode. So you need to build nuclear bombers, or nuclear missiles.

Also, its very expensive to maintain a nuclear program that is geared towards nuclear arms production. It costs a lot of money, and the international political and diplomatic consequences are significant. Finally, a lot of countries fall under the nuclear umbrella of one or more nuclear powers, ensuring that if they should be attacked by nukes, someone has their backs. All that combined are enough reasons for most countries to just not bother with getting nuclear weapons on their own.

Didnt I just say that makeing Nukes is not easy? And so what that it costs money. Some countrys will spend what ever it takes to get them. Regardless of the population.
So by your reasoning, China wont continue a nuke program? Gee they had one in the 60's With no outside greedy capitalist pigs to help finance one.
[/quote]

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Message 1641849 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 14:48:25 UTC - in response to Message 1641802.  

Didnt I just say that makeing Nukes is not easy? And so what that it costs money. Some countrys will spend what ever it takes to get them. Regardless of the population.

So what it costs money? If you don't have money you obviously can't spend it on building a nuke. And even if you do have the money, why would you spend it on a nuke if there is no advantage to be gained from having them?

So by your reasoning, China wont continue a nuke program? Gee they had one in the 60's With no outside greedy capitalist pigs to help finance one.

No, by my reasoning most countries will actually abide by the deal to not try to get their hands on nuclear weapons themselves.
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Message 1641953 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 18:56:29 UTC - in response to Message 1641855.  

Western Culture, and the Rule of Law, IS NOT The World.

& that ladies & gentleman is the crux of the matter.

The West for far too long have tried to force that culture on the rest of the world. The rest of the world is now saying:-

"Enough is enough". Looking at it from that point, can one really blame them?
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Message 1641955 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 19:10:02 UTC - in response to Message 1641953.  

"Enough is enough". Looking at it from that point, can one really blame them?


You know it is not that simple......



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Message 1641971 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 19:38:11 UTC - in response to Message 1641955.  

"Enough is enough". Looking at it from that point, can one really blame them?


You know it is not that simple......



...of course it is :-)

The old empires of the West are dying so they want their shot at empire, & from what we're seeing, nobody's really doing anything to stop them.
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Message 1642110 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 23:19:56 UTC

...of course it is :-)



Boom!


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Message 1642140 - Posted: 15 Feb 2015, 0:17:34 UTC - in response to Message 1641855.  

Please list all the agreements, in history, the bad guys have abided to?

What bad guys? Other countries?

The role of bad guy is based on a particular point of view, your point of view on those countries. I can assure you that those countries do not share your point of view and they do not see themselves as the bad guys. All they do is pursue their own interests.

This IS NOT, in most cases, a Lawful World, run by Law Abiding Persons.

There have been dozens of very interesting studies on this subject. Lets just say that the idea that most countries are not law abiding is not entirely true. Most do in most cases. Mostly because international laws are not imposed, they are adopted. No point in adopting laws if you are gonna break them anyways and suffer the consequences.

Most of The World, and its Culture, is not, has never been, will never be, Modern Western Culture.

They do not see us as something to emulate.

Western Culture, and the Rule of Law, IS NOT The World.

The idea that the rule of law is unique to Western culture is an incredibly backward and racist view. Most other cultures had the rule of law long before we ever heard of such a thing in Europe. So you are wrong, the rule of law is common in human society everywhere around the globe.
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Message 1642213 - Posted: 15 Feb 2015, 2:41:33 UTC - in response to Message 1641849.  

Didnt I just say that makeing Nukes is not easy? And so what that it costs money. Some countrys will spend what ever it takes to get them. Regardless of the population.

So what it costs money? If you don't have money you obviously can't spend it on building a nuke. And even if you do have the money, why would you spend it on a nuke if there is no advantage to be gained from having them?

So by your reasoning, China wont continue a nuke program? Gee they had one in the 60's With no outside greedy capitalist pigs to help finance one.

No, by my reasoning most countries will actually abide by the deal to not try to get their hands on nuclear weapons themselves.

I sure wish I lived in your world.
[/quote]

Old James
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Message boards : Politics : Apple and China


 
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