Interesting program on the history channel. Where is all the gold going?

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Profile Bob DeWoody
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Message 1640047 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 6:10:05 UTC

According to this program most all of europe's, Canada's and the USA's gold has disappeared. Speculation is that China has most of it with India not far behind. Most gold trading on the commodities markets is only either electronic or on paper with nothing to actually back it up.
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My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1640066 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 7:34:26 UTC - in response to Message 1640047.  

According to this program most all of europe's, Canada's and the USA's gold has disappeared. Speculation is that China has most of it with India not far behind. Most gold trading on the commodities markets is only either electronic or on paper with nothing to actually back it up.


I guess Fort Knox is empty?

If I bought several ounces of gold, and wanted the actual stuff, in what form would it be?
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Message 1640084 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 8:25:52 UTC

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Message 1640094 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 8:50:43 UTC - in response to Message 1640066.  

According to this program most all of europe's, Canada's and the USA's gold has disappeared. Speculation is that China has most of it with India not far behind. Most gold trading on the commodities markets is only either electronic or on paper with nothing to actually back it up.


I guess Fort Knox is empty?

If I bought several ounces of gold, and wanted the actual stuff, in what form would it be?

It would say it on paper. If the economy ever collasped Yout piece of paper would be the equivalent of toilet paper. If you dont have it in person What good was it buying it to keep it in some one elses vault. They own it.
[/quote]

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Message 1640105 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:11:29 UTC

Where is all the gold going? Nowhere, we still have it.

Don't trust the History Channel. After TLC they are the channel with the most blatant lie in their name.
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Message 1640106 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:12:45 UTC - in response to Message 1640094.  

According to this program most all of europe's, Canada's and the USA's gold has disappeared. Speculation is that China has most of it with India not far behind. Most gold trading on the commodities markets is only either electronic or on paper with nothing to actually back it up.


I guess Fort Knox is empty?

If I bought several ounces of gold, and wanted the actual stuff, in what form would it be?

It would say it on paper. If the economy ever collasped Yout piece of paper would be the equivalent of toilet paper. If you dont have it in person What good was it buying it to keep it in some one elses vault. They own it.


Right. I wouldn't want a note. I would want the real thing. Just wonder how I would get it when I buy it? Is an ounce of gold in an ingot? I have no idea how this stuff works. I have a stock broker - I should try to remember to ask her.
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Message 1640113 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:25:33 UTC
Last modified: 11 Feb 2015, 9:44:19 UTC

Sorry James, you obviously don't understand the bullion markets. Virtually all the gold and silver and other precious metal trading is done electronically and you have "paper" holdings. If the physical metal was to be transported from A to B for every transaction, most of it would be transit at any one time, cost a fortune, and be vulnerable to theft. Totally impractical. You "own" the metal you bought and paid for, somebody else "stores" it for you in secure depositories.

World bank vaults

Although physical gold bullion bars stay where they are, gold coins are another matter, such as Sovereigns and Krugerands.

Until 1855, the Chief Cashier of Bank of England would write a bank note by hand and sign it & also fill the payee's name. It worked a lot a like a check. It was getting quite cumbersome and thus the template of "I promise to pay the bearer a sum of" started to get printed on a mass scale with the bearer's name not explicitly mentioned.

The words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds" was also when the notes represented physical deposits of gold. At that time, a member of the public could exchange one of the banknotes for gold to the same value. For example, a £5 note could be exchanged for five gold coins, called sovereigns. But the value of the pound has not been linked to gold for many years, so the meaning of the promise to pay has changed. Exchange into gold is no longer possible and Bank of England notes can only be exchanged for other Bank of England notes of the same face value. Public trust in the pound is now maintained by the operation of monetary policy, the objective of which is price stability.

But for those of you hill-billys that like to keep their life savings under the mattress, then yes you can buy real gold across the counter.

Buying gold

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Message 1640114 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:30:11 UTC - in response to Message 1640113.  

Sorry James, you obviously don't understand the bullion markets. Virtually all the gold and silver and other precious metal trading is done electronically and you have "paper" holdings. If the physical metal was to be transported from A to B for every transaction, most of it would be transit at any one time, cost a fortune, and be vulnerable to theft. Totally impractical. You "own" the metal you bought and paid for, somebody else "stores" it for you in secure depositories.

World bank vaults

Although physical gold bullion bars stay where they are, gold coins are another matter, such as Sovereigns and Krugerands.

Until 1855, the Chief Cashier of Bank of England would write a bank note by hand and sign it & also fill the payee's name. It worked a lot a like a check. It was getting quite cumbersome and thus the template of "I promise to pay the bearer a sum of" started to get printed on a mass scale with the bearer's name not explicitly mentioned.

The words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds" was also when the notes represented physical deposits of gold. At that time, a member of the public could exchange one of the banknotes for gold to the same value. For example, a £5 note could be exchanged for five gold coins, called sovereigns. But the value of the pound has not been linked to gold for many years, so the meaning of the promise to pay has changed. Exchange into gold is no longer possible and Bank of England notes can only be exchanged for other Bank of England notes of the same face value. Public trust in the pound is now maintained by the operation of monetary policy, the objective of which is price stability.



Well I don't see a lot of point in buying gold if all I'm going to get is a promissory note. If things get dire, I'm sure that note would not be honored. On the other hand, from a purely investment strategy viewpoint, I guess it would be ok.
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Message 1640115 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:34:41 UTC - in response to Message 1640113.  

Sorry James, you obviously don't understand the bullion markets. Virtually all the gold and silver and other precious metal trading is done electronically and you have "paper" holdings. If the physical metal was to be transported from A to B for every transaction, most of it would be transit at any one time, cost a fortune, and be vulnerable to theft. Totally impractical. You "own" the metal you bought and paid for, somebody else "stores" it for you in secure depositories.

World bank vaults

Although physical gold bullion bars stay where they are, gold coins are another matter, such as Sovereigns and Krugerands.

Until 1855, the Chief Cashier of Bank of England would write a bank note by hand and sign it & also fill the payee's name. It worked a lot a like a check. It was getting quite cumbersome and thus the template of "I promise to pay the bearer a sum of" started to get printed on a mass scale with the bearer's name not explicitly mentioned.

The words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds" was also when the notes represented physical deposits of gold. At that time, a member of the public could exchange one of the banknotes for gold to the same value. For example, a £5 note could be exchanged for five gold coins, called sovereigns. But the value of the pound has not been linked to gold for many years, so the meaning of the promise to pay has changed. Exchange into gold is no longer possible and Bank of England notes can only be exchanged for other Bank of England notes of the same face value. Public trust in the pound is now maintained by the operation of monetary policy, the objective of which is price stability.

Which is my exact point. What does a piece of toilet paper mean when you cant get accesse to the real gold? It means your a shumck. Those gold coins would be worth a lot more in your hands then the real owners who hold them in a vault.
Do you really think in a time of crises that they would send you any gold?
[/quote]

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Message 1640117 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:36:41 UTC
Last modified: 11 Feb 2015, 9:37:53 UTC

See the amendment to my previous post Gordon & James.
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Message 1640118 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 9:41:48 UTC - in response to Message 1640117.  

See the amendment to my previous post Gordon & James.



Interesting. Well good, apparently it's possible to do it. I am thinking about some alternative investing, and just for the sake of having a small bar, I might do that, but I'd probably keep most of it on paper, the conventional way.
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Message 1640125 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 10:16:18 UTC - in response to Message 1640115.  

Which is my exact point. What does a piece of toilet paper mean when you cant get accesse to the real gold? It means your a shumck. Those gold coins would be worth a lot more in your hands then the real owners who hold them in a vault.
Do you really think in a time of crises that they would send you any gold?

Why would they need to send you any actual gold? If you want to sell your gold, you can simply sell them the paper that says you have gold.

By the time a crisis gets so bad you can't trade in papers anymore, gold probably isn't much worth either.
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Message 1640142 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 10:57:20 UTC

By the time a crisis gets so bad you can't trade in papers anymore, gold probably isn't much worth either.

Rubbish! Gold has always kept its worth, paper money hasn't.

During the first half of 1922, the German Mark stabilized at about 320 Marks per Dollar. That changed to hyperinflation and the Mark fell to 800 Marks per Dollar by December 1922. The cost-of-living index was 41 in June 1922 and 685 in December, a 15-fold increase.

In January 1923 French and Belgian troops occupied the Ruhr. Because the Mark was practically worthless, it became impossible for Germany to buy foreign exchange or gold using paper Marks. Inflation was exacerbated when workers in the Ruhr went on a general strike, and the German government printed more money in order to continue paying them for "passively resisting". By November 1923, the American dollar was worth 4,210,500,000,000 German marks.
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Message 1640147 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 11:04:04 UTC - in response to Message 1640142.  

By the time a crisis gets so bad you can't trade in papers anymore, gold probably isn't much worth either.

Rubbish! Gold has always kept its worth, paper money hasn't.

I meant the papers that say you have gold laying around somewhere in some vault. Not paper money.
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Message 1640199 - Posted: 11 Feb 2015, 16:29:23 UTC - in response to Message 1640147.  

By the time a crisis gets so bad you can't trade in papers anymore, gold probably isn't much worth either.

Rubbish! Gold has always kept its worth, paper money hasn't.

I meant the papers that say you have gold laying around somewhere in some vault. Not paper money.

That vault it the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
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Message 1640568 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 8:27:43 UTC - in response to Message 1640125.  

Which is my exact point. What does a piece of toilet paper mean when you cant get accesse to the real gold? It means your a shumck. Those gold coins would be worth a lot more in your hands then the real owners who hold them in a vault.
Do you really think in a time of crises that they would send you any gold?

Why would they need to send you any actual gold? If you want to sell your gold, you can simply sell them the paper that says you have gold.

By the time a crisis gets so bad you can't trade in papers anymore, gold probably isn't much worth either.

And if per chance that we get a massive full halo corona that takes out the electric grid. Yes it might be far fetched. But it did happen in the age of the telegraph. And it did happen in Quebec in the 1990's.
You want to invest in gold that you dont posess, And can only get acess to by landline or the internet, Fine. What happens when the net goes down. Or the electric grid goes down?
Sorry that gold you so revere is worthless in NY city when you cant get it.
And to answer your question, Why in the hell, In a time of crisis with no communications would I buy that toilet paper you say is worth a lot? For all I know you could have sold 100 copies of that toilet paper.
You want something that will be worth something when the crap hits the fan, Then buy ammo. A brick of .22 LR will barter you more than that piece of toilet paper that says you own gold in some far way bank.
[/quote]

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Message 1640574 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 8:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 1640568.  

You want something that will be worth something when the crap hits the fan, Then buy ammo. A brick of .22 LR will barter you more than that piece of toilet paper that says you own gold in some far way bank.

You assume that at that point gold is still worth something. But why? In a time of such crisis, gold is pointless, it serves no purpose, and its value turns out to have the same source as that paper: namely our collective imagination.

You would be much better off trading actual toilet paper because at least that stuff is useful. Honestly if you are worried about such a crisis, I would suggest betting on a bartering system.
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Message 1640588 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 8:53:38 UTC - in response to Message 1640574.  

You want something that will be worth something when the crap hits the fan, Then buy ammo. A brick of .22 LR will barter you more than that piece of toilet paper that says you own gold in some far way bank.

You assume that at that point gold is still worth something. But why? In a time of such crisis, gold is pointless, it serves no purpose, and its value turns out to have the same source as that paper: namely our collective imagination.

You would be much better off trading actual toilet paper because at least that stuff is useful. Honestly if you are worried about such a crisis, I would suggest betting on a bartering system.


I think the ammo is right on target. ;~}
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Message 1640589 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 8:55:22 UTC - in response to Message 1640574.  

You want something that will be worth something when the crap hits the fan, Then buy ammo. A brick of .22 LR will barter you more than that piece of toilet paper that says you own gold in some far way bank.

You assume that at that point gold is still worth something. But why? In a time of such crisis, gold is pointless, it serves no purpose, and its value turns out to have the same source as that paper: namely our collective imagination.

You would be much better off trading actual toilet paper because at least that stuff is useful. Honestly if you are worried about such a crisis, I would suggest betting on a bartering system.

First off I agree with you that gold will be useless in a crisis. More so if you only have a piece of paper that says you own it. And barter will be how things work in such a crisis. As for toilet paper. Make me wish I had saved all those old sears catalogs.
My parents who were raised during the depression, Said that they liked the black and white edtions better than the ones in color. The black and white pages were softer after you crumpled them up. If you had a warehouse of TP in a crisis you could be king.
[/quote]

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Message 1640598 - Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 9:22:17 UTC

You want something that will be worth something when the crap hits the fan, Then buy ammo.

My word there is some woolly thinking around here!

Firstly, once you fire that ammo your asset is gone, it vanishes in thin air with maybe a puff of smoke. There maybe also shelf life to take into consideration, apart from the fact that unlicenced arms dealing is fraught with problems. Gold has intrinsic properties in that it can be melted down and made into something else, it is always there in its metallic form. Goldfinger in the 007 movie used that property quite well.

The same with toilet paper, once you wipe your backside with it your asset is gone, and lets face it there is so much crap said around here, you could make a fortune selling a wharehouse full to Seti!

As of 2013, no countries use a gold standard. From 1936 until 2000 the Swiss Franc was based on a 40% gold-reserve. Gold reserves are held in significant quantity by many nations as a means of defending their currency and hedging against the US dollar, which forms the bulk of liquid currency reserves worldwide. Both gold coins and gold bars are traded in liquid markets and serve as a private store of wealth.

In 1999 the European Central Bank and 11 European national banks signed the Washington Agreement on Gold declaring that "gold will remain an important element of global monetary reserves"; the Agreement was later amended and extended.


If you don't fancy gold buy some diamonds and hide them under the floorboards, they will go nicely with the life savings under the mattress. Of course also don't forget to stock up the cupboards with extra food, so you are prepared for when war breaks out, and a second hand AK47 will help when the vigilantes pay a visit. And most important, do check for reds under the bed before you go to sleep.
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Message boards : Politics : Interesting program on the history channel. Where is all the gold going?


 
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