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Message 1635957 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 2:37:45 UTC - in response to Message 1635842.  

You know where this all is going don't you?
What kind of false propaganda about bad things Poland did to Germans living in Poland, did the Nazi regime spread, in order to find an excuse to invade Poland? (1 September 1939)
Answer: Exactly the same kind of false news....
Be prepared Europe, be very, very prepared. The deeper Russia sinks economically, the greater the risk that the Putin regime decides that the only way out, is to launch a full scale war against western Europe.

Russia has not launched a full scale war against western Europe yet.
They dont have to. Now its a hybrid warfare going on and "small" countries are going to suffer the most.

From Part 3 which many refuse to read

Scotland attempted to split from the UK. The Golden Dawn party gained ground in Greece. 15,000 Nazi’s marched in Germany last month. The list goes on and on and Russia has ties to nearly every major right-wing group involved:

Bulgaria – Ataka Party (there are claims that they report directly to the Russian embassy) Hungary – Jobbik (Dugin hosted their leader Vona at Moscow State University)
Austria – FPO
Italy – Forza Nuova (Met multiple times with the Russian Duma and Putin himself) Greece – Golden Dawn (Dugin wrote their leader Michaloliakos while he was in prison) Germany – Pegida
Netherlands – Freedom Party
France – National Front (In November a Russian bank donated 9 million euros to Marine Le Pen and the National Front)

Not only is the Kremlin supporting these groups at the highest levels they’re also targeting Europe’s youth.


Putin is a fascist and as such his only political goal is power.


Once again, fascism is on the right. Communism is on the left.
Do not be led astray by the decades old false dichotomy apparently perpetrated by Ayn Rand. What links Nazi Germany and the USSR is totalitarianism. Again, see Gary's 2 and 3 dimensional matrices.
(And don't try telling me about what NAZI was an abbreviation of. Hitler was devious, so of course he and his cronies came up with a misleading name for their party.)
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1635959 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 2:41:48 UTC - in response to Message 1635956.  

Sorry Dena, anything written by a fascist like Beck will not be read by me. I don't need opinions from fascists. And absolutely not a lesson of Russian history from a fascist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Beck

You have made a statement that is conflicting. In Europe the the left is communist and the right is fascist. In America the Left is communist and the Right is small government. I have been watching Glen for years and he has never ask for more than freedom for everybody and small government.He only opposes those who would limit a persons freedom. You have been brain washed and like many members of a cult you refuse to look at any view point other than the one that has been installed in your head. This thread is not intended to debate the politics of Glen Beck but is intended to discuss Russia. What I posted limits the discussion to that and how Russia could change the world. Years ago while Glen was still at Fox, he proposed what is happening in the middle east. Sadly, what he predicted has come true because nobody listened to him. He as defined a possible Russian future and has the facts to back it up. Read it or don't but stop the debate about Glen Beck.


Perhaps for another thread, but:
Please state when Glenn made these predictions about the middle east.
Please state precisely what these predictions were.
Then, perhaps we can ask, was no one else thinking or saying the same thing, was no one listening to Glenn?
Remember, the Mujahadeen were in existence in the 1980s.
Remember that al Qaeda attakced the WTC with a car bomb (essentially?) in an interior parking lot in 1003.
IIRC, al Qaeda attacked American interests abroad in late summer of 1998.
No one else knew something was up until Glenn?
Hmmm.

Will it do to have the video?
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Message 1635981 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 5:08:44 UTC - in response to Message 1635959.  

Will it do to have the video?

Did He use the word domino? Yes he did! When was the last time that was used?
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Message 1636023 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 9:42:43 UTC - in response to Message 1635842.  
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 9:44:58 UTC

Bulgaria – Ataka Party (there are claims that they report directly to the Russian embassy) Hungary – Jobbik (Dugin hosted their leader Vona at Moscow State University)
Austria – FPO
Italy – Forza Nuova (Met multiple times with the Russian Duma and Putin himself) Greece – Golden Dawn (Dugin wrote their leader Michaloliakos while he was in prison) Germany – Pegida
Netherlands – Freedom Party
France – National Front (In November a Russian bank donated 9 million euros to Marine Le Pen and the National Front)

Not only is the Kremlin supporting these groups at the highest levels they’re also targeting Europe’s youth.


Putin is a fascist and as such his only political goal is power.

Actually the Freedom party has links to American conservative groups. They have no love for the Russians.

As for the Italians, Berlusconi is a close friend of Putin (in as far men like them have friends). That doesn't mean that Putin is controlling Italy like some puppet. I suspect that counts for many more of those parties. They are more open to Russian pressure, but it doesn't make them puppets who are furthering Putin's agenda.
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Message 1636027 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 9:56:19 UTC - in response to Message 1635949.  
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 9:57:06 UTC

Edit: Added. 2015 will be an "interesting" year to say the least. With the western world finding itself in deep sh*t. Two enemies at once, the radical Islamists, and a power crazy Russia. I wouldn't be suprised at all, if the radical Islamists, and Russia negotiated another "Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact". This time maybe called the "Putin-Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi pact"

Hmmm. Please do correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Russia historically thrown its support to Iran and Syria in great part? So, they've support Bashad, correct? Now, Russia will support ISIS and al-Qaeda? I don't think this very likely! (Besides, al-Qaesa grew out of the Afghan Mujahadeen fighting against the USSR's occupation of Afghanistan, correct?)
Unless Putin/Russia would now like to play the game of "The enemy of our enemy is our friend"? Maybe Putin will ignore how "well" that has worked out for us in the United States! :)

Quite true. Also, Russia's least stable regions in the Southern Caucasus have significant Muslim populations. None of them having any love for Moscow. IS is seen as a potential source of further instability in the Southern Caucasus as they might train people from there to fight against the authority of Moscow. Or worse and decide that its time for their little Caliphate to expand into the Southern Caucasus.

Furthermore, openly teaming up with a group like IS has severe diplomatic consequences. You think the current sanctions hit the Russian economy hard? Wait until they openly declare to work together with a terrorist organization and the sanctions that follow from there.

Suggesting that the Russians and Islamist radicals will form some kind of alliance is just ridiculous.
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Message 1636037 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 10:23:39 UTC - in response to Message 1636036.  
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 10:25:21 UTC

I've been saying for many years after the Cold War was over, that WWIII will start in the Middle East. We are almost seeing that now with ISIS/IS.

But as always never under estimate nor trust Russia. They still want full control of all the satellite states on their Western border, and if they thought that they could roll their tanks into eastern Europe and win, they'd damn well do it. The Crimea was just dipping their toes in the water.

No I'm not a "reds under the bed" person, just being realistic. Many say that China is more of an emerging threat to the western world. I say Russia will always be. You never ever trust sleeping bears.

This is just Western privilege speaking. Yeah, the Russians want full control of their satellite states. But how does that make them different from the UK or France? Look at how they interact with their former colonies. And the US, who will happily support every dictator that is willing to please American interests?

Right now in Russia, there is probably some forum talking about who the bigger threat to the Russians interests is, the US or some European power.
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Message 1636042 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 11:09:54 UTC - in response to Message 1635881.  

From Part 3 which many refuse to read

Scotland attempted to split from the UK. The Golden Dawn party gained ground in Greece. 15,000 Nazi’s marched in Germany last month. The list goes on and on and Russia has ties to nearly every major right-wing group involved:

Bulgaria – Ataka Party (there are claims that they report directly to the Russian embassy) Hungary – Jobbik (Dugin hosted their leader Vona at Moscow State University)
Austria – FPO
Italy – Forza Nuova (Met multiple times with the Russian Duma and Putin himself) Greece – Golden Dawn (Dugin wrote their leader Michaloliakos while he was in prison) Germany – Pegida
Netherlands – Freedom Party
France – National Front (In November a Russian bank donated 9 million euros to Marine Le Pen and the National Front)

Not only is the Kremlin supporting these groups at the highest levels they’re also targeting Europe’s youth.


Putin is a fascist and as such his only political goal is power.

You are spot on.
This is what happens in Europe right now...

Skärp dig. Det är Glen Becks ord inte Denas, som du svarar. Fox News dåren Beck. 15000 nazister har inte marscherat i Tyskland förra månaden till exempel. Herre gud, tror du på vad Glen Beck skriver nu helt plötsligt. Alldeles nyss i denna tråd lät du helt annorlunda.

Även en blind höna kan hitta ett frö:)
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Message 1636043 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 11:24:44 UTC

Strange things are happening in Belarus...
Lukashenko has begun an unprecedented tilt away from Moscow.
Russia May Need to Say ‘Do Svidaniya’ to Belarus.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/30/russia-may-need-to-say-do-svidaniya-to-belarus/
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Message 1636079 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 13:57:10 UTC - in response to Message 1636040.  

The UK has in a sort of very loose way Satellite States in the Falklands, Gibraltar, and Northern Ireland, although in reality they are British Overseas Territories and a UK Province. All the while that they continue to exercise their vote to remain under British rule, we will support that. The day that they vote for to come under another rule or be independent, we will also respect that.

I'm not talking about those places. I'm talking about actual former colonies. India, Pakistan, parts of Africa, etc. Sure, you don't barge in with tanks, but only because you know it would cost more than it would gain. But in the past, when the British Empire was still in control of those places and you could actually get away with waging war there to remain in control? You guys totally send in troops to quell any opposition.

Russia will happily take over it's satellite states with force and totally ignore the wishes of the people, THAT is the difference between us and them.

Pretty sure that in Crimea the people voted in a referendum to join Russia, and the people in the Donetsk region were also pretty loud in their wish to join the Russian Federation. Actually, every time the Russians go on an adventure like this, they do so because the locals *want* the Russians to do this. So what do you mean, they ignore the wishes of the people.

American foreign policy is not being discussed here, Russia is, so don't introduce smokescreens to hide your weak arguments.

Just exposing your Western privilege here. The fact is you measure with a double standard. If friendly, Western countries impose their control over other countries, its fine, because they do it in the name of freedom, democracy and capitalism (which is just a flimsy excuse/propaganda). But when the Russians do the exact same thing, they are the bad guys who force themselves on those poor poor locals.
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Message 1636091 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 14:39:55 UTC

What we don't understand about Russia because we don't know their history is the satellite states or as I was taught buffer zone was Russia a thousand years ago. The Russian people would like Russia to return to it's original greatness by returning to the old country boundaries. Putin believes he will have more political power if he can fulfill this desire of the people. This isn't very much different than the play book used by Hitler before WWII.
It's possible if Putin can do this, he can become another Caesar and ruler for life. He already played a political game when he termed out he had a place holder elected so when he could run again.
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Message 1636093 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 14:51:10 UTC - in response to Message 1636023.  
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 14:52:13 UTC

Actually the Freedom party has links to American conservative groups. They have no love for the Russians.

As for the Italians, Berlusconi is a close friend of Putin (in as far men like them have friends). That doesn't mean that Putin is controlling Italy like some puppet. I suspect that counts for many more of those parties. They are more open to Russian pressure, but it doesn't make them puppets who are furthering Putin's agenda.

I don't know where you get American Conservative groups out of that link. We have skin heads who might do something like that but they are NOT mainstream Conservatives. We are not against legal immigration, we are only against illegal immigration and a outright attempt to stuff the ballot box.
Putins game plan to to break up structures like NATO so he will never need to face more than one country at a time. He understands that Russia is unable to face all of the free countries at the same time but he can pick them off one at a time.
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Message 1636103 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 15:11:58 UTC
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 15:20:04 UTC

Now when Russia having big problems with their economy they cut back expenses in their budget in all parts.
However the military budget remains the same.
And now the prices dropped sharply in Russia vodka.
Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee on economic policy, Victor Zvagel′skij explained that the reduction in the minimum price for vodka is to combat counterfeiting.
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fpodrobnosti.ua%2Feconomy%2F2015%2F02%2F01%2F1013936.html

My girlfiends brother once was in Russia where he went into a bar.
He ordered one vodka and got a whole bottle of it:)
Cheers:)
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Message 1636167 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 17:52:50 UTC
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 17:55:06 UTC

Since the Russians literally are shitting in the Baltic Sea, we will for many years to help finance a water treatment plant in Kaliningrad, the city where the missiles are directed against Sweden.

Day after day is released 150,000 cubic meters of untreated sewage into the sea. It's an old story. The project began in 1975, was discontinued in the 1980s and was restarted in the 1990s. Recent studies made in 2003. After five years later began procurement of contractors.

We could have used our 145 million SEK ($18 million) to strengthen our defense instead.
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svd.se%2Fopinion%2Fledarsidan%2Fskattepengar-fran-sverige-stottar-putin_4299995.svd&edit-text=
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Message 1636326 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 23:39:02 UTC - in response to Message 1636093.  
Last modified: 1 Feb 2015, 23:44:20 UTC

Actually the Freedom party has links to American conservative groups. They have no love for the Russians.

As for the Italians, Berlusconi is a close friend of Putin (in as far men like them have friends). That doesn't mean that Putin is controlling Italy like some puppet. I suspect that counts for many more of those parties. They are more open to Russian pressure, but it doesn't make them puppets who are furthering Putin's agenda.

I don't know where you get American Conservative groups out of that link. We have skin heads who might do something like that but they are NOT mainstream Conservatives. We are not against legal immigration, we are only against illegal immigration and a outright attempt to stuff the ballot box.
Putins game plan to to break up structures like NATO so he will never need to face more than one country at a time. He understands that Russia is unable to face all of the free countries at the same time but he can pick them off one at a time.

I'm quite sure that means you didn't read the link. The title itself says conservative groups and if you read the rest of it, it clearly says "The Middle East Forum" which is a Pro-Israel, anti-Islam conservative lobby, and a pretty extreme one at that. They are not however, Neo-Nazis or White Supremacists. The article also mentions David Horowitz, who is pretty conservative when it comes to Israel and the Middle East. And he is utterly mainstream.

And why are you even talking about immigration in America? This is a Dutch party, and this particular Dutch party runs on a platform of xenophobia and racism and is very anti immigration, legal or otherwise.
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Message 1636329 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 23:41:51 UTC - in response to Message 1636096.  

[quote]This is just Western privilege speaking.

What sort of relevance is that then ??

Yeah, the Russians want full control of their satellite states. But how does that make them different from the UK or France?

Just silly, unthinking, Left Wing 'Equivalency'.

Not to be taken seriously, in an Intelligent Discussion.

Just silly CLYDE-talk, ignoring the argument and just start name calling.

But as you say nicely say: "Not to be taken seriously, in an Intelligent Discussion."
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Message 1636537 - Posted: 2 Feb 2015, 11:31:06 UTC - in response to Message 1636435.  

Comparing Putin, and his dream of reconstituting The Old Soviet Borders and Influence, to present day UK or France, is not Silly and Unintelligent?

If you really believe what I responded to. Please explain, if you can: Why?

Just look at how often France sends troops to its former colonies, to protect French interests in those countries. Sure, it doesn't try to annex those regions into a larger 'French Empire' but I think that has more to do with the fact that they simply can't afford the costs of such policy.

Mind you, the only reason countries like the UK and France gave up their colonies was because they simply couldnt afford the costs of maintaining those colonies anymore. Not because they were suddenly convinced that those countries deserved to rule themselves.
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Message 1636623 - Posted: 2 Feb 2015, 16:35:51 UTC - in response to Message 1636598.  

Disagree.

All People's and Cultures are with Sin. It is the Degree of Sin which makes a difference.

Do you really believe the Present Culture's of France and The UK, are not different from Russia?

Do you really believe the French and British peoples would knowingly elect, and support a Putin Type, as in Russia?

I'm not talking about culture, I'm talking about Foreign Policy. Countries act to protect their self interests, and in that sense France and the UK are no different than Russia. And if they deem it necessary to intervene in other countries with force, they will. France especially.
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Message 1636624 - Posted: 2 Feb 2015, 16:39:15 UTC - in response to Message 1636610.  

That is not true. The United Kingdom had and has has a policy of giving former colonies their independence if the majority of the population votes for it, via a democratic election. Provided also that it is judged that they can sensibly run their own affairs. And yes we got it wrong many times in Africa.

And that policy has only been put in place because trying to hold on to those colonies was more costly than the benefit of having them.

And while those colonies are now their own states, they are not free from UK interference, be it political or cultural.
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Message 1636630 - Posted: 2 Feb 2015, 17:02:37 UTC - in response to Message 1636629.  

For someone doing a 2nd level degree apparently in European politics, you are remarkably blinkered. Or could it be that your course hasn't yet got to the bit about The Commonwealth of nations. If so, homework for tonight.

Commonwealth

Otherwise I judge that Dutch Uni degrees are not worth the paper they are written on, judging by the garbage they are teaching you.

I'm doing European Studies, not Commonwealth Studies.

That aside, I'm sure the official Commonwealth site will describe the whole thing as just being part of a big family. Just as I'm sure the official site of Novo-Russia will use similar terminology to describe its relation with Moscow.

That said, the Commonwealth is an excellent example of how the UK still meddles with its former colonies. On a cultural and political level.
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Message 1636672 - Posted: 2 Feb 2015, 18:41:08 UTC - in response to Message 1636659.  

In case it may have escaped your notice, for the present at least, the UK is a Member of the European Union, as are the Netherlands. You also de-colonised quite largely in the past, remember this lot Dutch Empire?

European Studies focuses on the EU institutions and the EU as organizations. It does not cover the history of every member state.

Also, yes, I could put the Netherlands between France and the UK as countries that would intervene in other countries if it suits them. But given our small size and tiny army the idea of us invading any country outside of a NATO or UN framework is laughable.

Also, we decolonized not because we wanted to, but because we were forced to do so by the US. We would lose our post war aid if we continued our little war in Indonesia. We would have lost anyways, but it would have taken us a bit longer to realize that.

And I might remind you that you still have
    Aruba
    Curaçao
    Sint Maarten
    Antilles

How much do you interfere in them then? So don't you even think about having a poke at me about the British Commonwealth laddie, else you will come off a very second best. Please go and finish this course of yours, then tell us what if anything you may have learned,. So far it isn't looking promising.


Sure, we basically run those places. Alright, technically we are equal partners, but given that those places are tiny and irrelevant, we do most of the work. Obviously, we designed it so that this would happen. Also, the Antilles aren't a country. Unless you mean Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius, which are special municipalities of the Netherlands, not even countries.

But what about the countries that have left us for good? Indonesia? Suriname? We'd love to interfere in those places, but we aren't big and powerful enough to do that. Just proves my point about countries acting in their own self interest really.
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