Je suis Varoufakis :)

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Message 1704288 - Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 15:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 1704271.  
Last modified: 23 Jul 2015, 15:35:46 UTC

It doesn't!

?

Sweden and Denmark are the most EU positive in Europe. Not in the Eurozone.
Greece and Cypros are the most EU negative. In the Eurozone.

@Alex. Perhaps the term sociopaths is better.
Wolfgang Schäuble and Jean-Claude Juncker seems to be that.
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Message 1704324 - Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 17:10:27 UTC - in response to Message 1704288.  
Last modified: 23 Jul 2015, 17:36:15 UTC

It doesn't!

?

Sweden and Denmark are the most EU positive in Europe. Not in the Eurozone.
Greece and Cypros are the most EU negative. In the Eurozone.

@Alex. Perhaps the term sociopaths is better.
Wolfgang Schäuble and Jean-Claude Juncker seems to be that.

Your figures only showed 2 countries with 75/200 in favour, that's 125/200 against.

62.5% against from 2 sure tells me it doesn't. Now if we can get those figures for all Eurozone countries, now that would make a lovely picture.

As for sociopaths, they dislike anyone better or more knowledgeable than themselves. They want to be in total control of everything around them, so you can add Frau Merkel to that list. No matter what the issue or crisis that surrounds the EU, she still wants political union & will do anything to succeed at that.

Edit: Over a year old, but pretty sure the Greece debacle has added to these percentages.

Britain, Denmark, France, Germany, Netherlands, Poland % for or against

Not looking good :-)
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Message 1705675 - Posted: 27 Jul 2015, 17:46:24 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jul 2015, 18:06:18 UTC

Greece really does need to be thanked as they have opened the EU's Pandora box & this time around, there will be no treaty to close it.

Germans used Grexit to "terrorise" France

Schoebbels push for Grexit put der Fuehrer on the defensive

Interview with Herr Schoebbels

Interesting comment from the French Finance Minister...

"Emmanuel Macron: On Treaty change I believe all of us are very careful right now about treaty change because if you ask people about Europe in the current situation, I do believe the answer will be a clear no in a lot of countries whatever the question will be"

...& that is one of the main reasons I believe as to why they did not want a Grexit - It would have meant the end of the EU.
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Message 1705686 - Posted: 27 Jul 2015, 18:21:08 UTC - in response to Message 1705675.  

Greece really does need to be thanked as they have opened the EU's Pandora box & this time around, there will be no treaty to close it.

Germans used Grexit to "terrorise" France

Schoebbels push for Grexit put der Fuehrer on the defensive

Interview with Herr Schoebbels

Herrn Schäuble is laughing all the way to the bank in Luxemburg.
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Message 1705796 - Posted: 27 Jul 2015, 23:30:45 UTC - in response to Message 1704285.  

You are making a claim, doubling down on it, so now you got to provide evidence that Schäuble actually exihibits any of those symptoms.


Hehehe. No I don't. And you don't want me to either. You have a brain, an education, tools at your disposal, and an interest in the subject. I'm sure you can come to your own conclusions.

And I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to come to mine. And they are:

...he is a pathological liar with a overinflated sense of self worth and a glib manipulator.


Hell yes, hell yes, and hell yes.

...he has no emotions, feels no guilt, has no empathy and lacks any kind of personal responsibility.


Pretty much, absolutely none whatsoever, absolutely none whatsoever, and the last one is too vague (but as far as tearing up the EZ almost singlehandedly, hell yes).

...prove that basically the guy is a criminal


Huh? The post you are replying to said: "I think you are assuming that ALL psychopaths are criminal or homicidal. They are not."

Being wrong or an idiot is not a crime.

Neither is being a psychopath. Also the whole point of quoting wiki was to show you I'm not calling him a psychopath because I've confused stupidity with psychopathy. I'm calling him a psychopath... because I'm convinced he is a psychopath:)

But worst of all, I've already answered to all that in a previous post (copy/paste below quote)

Prove he is a...


Absolutely not. I didn't ask anybody to take my word for it. I believe I clearly asked (or clearly "dared" if you prefer) everyone their opinion of the guy. YouTube and Google are your friends. Like Sirius has said, I'm not here to convert anybody. You've mistaken me for an evangelist. I'm actually trying to put a puzzle together. If you have any new pieces for me, they would be deeply appreciated.

Plus, you are essentially asking me to go into an in depth analysis of why I think Joffrey Baratheon is psycho. I can't do that if you haven't actually watched Game of Thrones. But after you DO watch it, I'm kinda hoping you won't feel the need to ask me that question! :(
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Message 1705800 - Posted: 27 Jul 2015, 23:48:42 UTC - in response to Message 1705686.  

Herrn Schäuble is laughing all the way to the bank in Luxemburg.


Hehehe :) And that's probably the single biggest complaint and worry I have about the EU right now. Hardly anybody else appears to understand just how HUGE the Luxemburg fiasco is! It's not advanced macroeconomics FFS! Juncker makes Bernie Madoff look like a rookie and somehow he's STILL President of the European Commission? How?? In what parallel universe did I wake up in?!

"...considered to be the largest financial fraud in U.S. history."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff
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Message 1705822 - Posted: 28 Jul 2015, 1:43:39 UTC - in response to Message 1705675.  

Greece really does need to be thanked as they have opened the EU's Pandora box & this time around, there will be no treaty to close it.

Interview with Herr Schoebbels


And just for fun!:)

'There Is No German Dominance'

AaaaaaaaaaaaaAaahahaaahaha!!!

'I have never experienced such a flood of agreement.'

Lie.


'A half a year ago, Greece was preparing to return to the capital markets.'

Big fat lie. Like I said before... This guy doesn't seem to like people very much. Even his own. Just how stupid does he think Germans are?

'Today, the country's economy lies in ruins. That is the Greek government's responsibility.'

Lie.

'But we cannot abandon the people of Greece.'

Lie.

'That is why a new program was needed, even if means new hardships for the population.'

Lie & WTF?

'Krugman is a prominent economist who won a Nobel Prize for his trade theory. But he has no idea about the architecture and foundation of the European currency union.'

Is this guy for real?

'We never said that Greece should leave the euro zone.'

Lie.

Debt relief is not possible within the currency union.

Lie.

'You should not try to solve your own problems by making inaccurate accusations against others.'

Let me get this straight. So this guy is making false accusations against others to solve his problems, fails to see the irony, yet I'm not allowed to call him a psychopath?

'What is important is the fact that many euro countries have now left the emergency aid program and have experienced a positive economic development: Portugal, Ireland, Spain, even Cyprus.'

Lie. Well except for Ireland who should be OK, the rest will still be screwed 5 years from now.

Q: Is Greece becoming a euro-zone protectorate?
'No'

Lie

'Thus far, the Greek economy and society have hardly developed in the desired direction.'

Big fat offensive lie.

SPIEGEL: Some €50 billion of that is to be generated via the privatization of assets owned by the Greek state, by way of a trust fund that will be supervised by the euro zone. Many in Greece see that as yet another attempt to turn the country into a kind of colony.
Schäuble: That is nonsense. The idea was that of finding some way to establish a broad foundation for the financing of a future program.

Big fat lie. Just ask ANY East German.

I told Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos: It's not about hurting you, but about collecting the necessary financial means.

'So this is about hurting you, but I know it's not cool to say that, so obviously I'm not a psychopath. Or stupid!'

SPIEGEL: Tsakalotos' predecessor, the enigmatic economics professor Yanis Varoufakis, had a different theory. He claimed that you have wanted for months to push Greece out of the euro zone so as to set an example. Is there something to that?
Schäuble: No.

It must be taking every fiber in his body to not scream, 'You bet your scrawny little ass there is!'

'The real question is: How can I find a solution that is sustainable in the long term.'

Lie.

'My grandmother used to say: Benevolence comes before dissoluteness. There is a kind of generosity that can rapidly produce the opposite of what is intended.'

Yeah, what the poor lady meant was not to stuff a child's face with sweets. I doubt she meant 'destroy Greece to teach 'em a lesson'.

'At home, we were three brothers, and when we fought, my father always said that the stronger one should back down. And that's how it was in the Greece negotiations. The one in the better position must try to help the weaker one. I tried to do that.'

Now seriously, is there anyone here that still objects to me calling this guy a psychopath?

'The problem is that for the last five years the medicine has not been taken as prescribed.'

Even the IMF knows you are lying your ass off now.

'Greece still hasn't tackled 15 important reforms. That must finally change.'

Apparently Greece has an infinite capacity of "taking" reforms. 15 more? FIFTEEN more!?

'...otherwise we wouldn't have had to travel to Brussels'

What he really means is: 'I could have sent an email with my demands but kept getting dragged to Brussels instead. I hate Europe.'

'Greece is still paying for a public administration that is among the leaders in Europe in terms of the ratio of its cost to economic output.'

What economic output? Will it come mit dem 15 more reforms?

'We in the euro zone are on a real path to success, and it is much more sustainable than it is, for example, in many developing economies.'

Now seriously (again), is there anyone here that still objects to me calling this guy a psychopath?

'...yet the euro zone -- aside from Greece -- is in much better shape than many countries that sometimes wrinkle their noses at us.'

Lie. Iceland? Sweden? The US? The UK? Shall I go on?

SPIEGEL: Is it not so that the euro, as it is currently constituted, divides Europe more than it brings the Continent together?

Schäuble: No, it doesn't.

Lie. And his explanation afterwards has nothing to do with the question!


There's more but I give up...
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Message 1705918 - Posted: 28 Jul 2015, 10:42:54 UTC - in response to Message 1705796.  

Plus, you are essentially asking me to go into an in depth analysis of why I think Joffrey Baratheon is psycho. I can't do that if you haven't actually watched Game of Thrones. But after you DO watch it, I'm kinda hoping you won't feel the need to ask me that question! :(

You can actually do that without me having to watch the show. You can simply sum up the things he does in the books and link it to the behavioral traits of a psychopath. It wouldn't be difficult because he is almost a textbook case of psychopathy.

But fine, you don't want to back up what you say about the man with facts. That is to bad really, it would have been interesting to see if you were right or not. Or it might have been interesting for yourself to measure your opinion against facts.
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Message 1705941 - Posted: 28 Jul 2015, 12:55:25 UTC - in response to Message 1705822.  

I knew you'd enjoy those links. As for Herr Schoebbels, if he's not a psychopath, he's definitely a sociopath of the highest order.
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Message 1706830 - Posted: 30 Jul 2015, 23:16:11 UTC - in response to Message 1705918.  

Or it might have been interesting for yourself to measure your opinion against facts.


Ahaha! That's pretty much ALL I've been doing these past few months. Over and over. Gathering many, MANY pieces to solve this puzzle and put it together. I have no idea what makes you think otherwise. A very silly assumption to make, Michiel.

But fine, you don't want to back up what you say about the man with facts. That is to bad really, it would have been interesting to see if you were right or not.


You're not thinking this through again. What motivation do I have to hand in 30 pages of homework just to change your mind? You think that little bit of reverse psychology and a silly accusation about "facts" is reason enough for me to go to all that trouble? Why? So I can pat myself on the back and say "Hey, I managed to convince Michiel!". Are you crazy?:)

But if we could have this conversation in a pub... well that would be a whole different situation entirely:)

Forget all that. None of it is important. Here's what is:

If you where to find out that Germany had (pretty much) absolute political and economical power over the EZ countries... That it isn't playing at all by the rules and bending them for National gain all the time... And that its mastermind is a psychopath with no ability in his DNA to understand what Europe means to Europeans...

How would that make you feel?
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Message 1706833 - Posted: 30 Jul 2015, 23:30:23 UTC

Joschka Fischer

Joschka Fischer was German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor from 1998-2005, a term marked by Germany's strong support for NATO’s intervention in Kosovo in 1999, followed by its opposition to the war in Iraq. Fischer entered electoral politics after participating in the anti-establishment protests of the 1960s and 1970s, and played a key role in founding Germany's Green Party, which he led for almost two decades.

-----

The Return of the Ugly German

BERLIN – During the long night of negotiations over Greece on July 12-13, something fundamental to the European Union cracked. Since then, Europeans have been living in a different kind of EU.

What changed that night was the Germany that Europeans have known since the end of World War II. On the surface, the negotiations were about averting a Greek exit from the eurozone (or “Grexit”) and the dire consequences that would follow for Greece and the monetary union. At a deeper level, however, what was at stake was the role in Europe of its most populous and economically most powerful country.

Germany’s resurgence after World War II, and its re-establishment of the world’s trust (culminating in consent to German re-unification four and a half decades later), was built on sturdy domestic and foreign-policy pillars. At home, a stable democracy based on the rule of law quickly emerged. The economic success of Germany’s welfare state proved a model for Europe. And Germans’ willingness to face up to the Nazis’ crimes, without reservation, sustained a deep-rooted skepticism toward all things military.

In terms of foreign policy, Germany rebuilt trust by embracing Western integration and Europeanization. The power at the center of Europe should never again become a threat to the continent or itself. Thus, the Western Allies’ aim after 1945 – unlike after World War I – was not to isolate Germany and weaken it economically, but to protect it militarily and firmly embed it politically in the West. Indeed, Germany’s reconciliation with its arch-enemy, France, remains the foundation of today’s European Union, helping to incorporate Germany into the common European market, with a view to the eventual political unification of Europe.

But in today’s Germany, such ideas are considered hopelessly “Euro-romantic”; their time has passed. Where Europe is concerned, from now on Germany will primarily pursue its national interests, just like everybody else.

But such thinking is based on a false premise. The path that Germany will pursue in the twenty-first century – toward a “European Germany” or a “German Europe” – has been the fundamental, historical question at the heart of German foreign policy for two centuries. And it was answered during that long night in Brussels, with German Europe prevailing over European Germany.

This was a fateful decision for both Germany and Europe. One wonders whether Chancellor Angela Merkel and Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble knew what they were doing.

To dismiss the fierce criticism of Germany and its leading players that erupted after the diktat on Greece, as many Germans do, is to don rose-tinted glasses. Certainly, there was nonsensical propaganda about a Fourth Reich and asinine references to the Führer. But, at its core, the criticism articulates an astute awareness of Germany’s break with its entire post-WWII European policy.

For the first time, Germany didn’t want more Europe; it wanted less. Germany’s stance on the night of July 12-13 announced its desire to transform the eurozone from a European project into a kind of sphere of influence. Merkel was forced to choose between Schäuble and France (and Italy).

The issue was fundamental: Her finance minister wanted to compel a eurozone member to leave “voluntarily” by exerting massive pressure. Greece could either exit (in full knowledge of the disastrous consequences for the country and Europe) or accept a program that effectively makes it a European protectorate, without any hope of economic improvement. Greece is now subject to a cure – further austerity – that has not worked in the past and that was prescribed solely to address Germany’s domestic political needs.

But the massive conflict with France and Italy, the eurozone’s second and third largest economies, is not over, because, for Schäuble, Grexit remains an option. By claiming that debt relief is “legally” possible only outside the eurozone, he wants to turn the issue into the lever for bringing about a “voluntary” Grexit.

Schäuble’s position has thrown into sharp relief the fundamental question of the relationship between Europe’s south and north, his approach threatens to stretch the eurozone to the breaking point. The belief that the euro can be used to bring about the economic “re-education” of Europe’s south will prove a dangerous fallacy – and not just in Greece. As the French and Italians well know, such a view jeopardizes the entire European project, which has been built on diversity and solidarity.

Germany has been the big winner of European unification, both economically and politically. Just compare Germany’s history in the first and second halves of the twentieth century. Bismarck’s unification of Germany in the nineteenth century occurred at the high-water mark of European nationalism. In German thinking, power became inextricably associated with nationalism and militarism. As a result, unlike France, Great Britain, or the United States, which legitimized their foreign policy in terms of a “civilizing mission,” Germany understood its power in terms of raw military force.

The foundation of the second, unified German nation-state in 1989 was based on Germany’s irrevocable Western orientation and Europeanization. And the Europeanization of Germany’s politics filled – and still fills – the civilization gap embodied in German statehood. To allow this pillar to erode – or, worse, to tear it down – is a folly of the highest order. That is why, in the EU that emerged on the morning of July 13, Germany and Europe both stand to lose.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/return-of-the-ugly-german-by-joschka-fischer-2015-07
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Message 1706837 - Posted: 30 Jul 2015, 23:45:38 UTC - in response to Message 1702911.  

Kept forgetting to reply to this.

Ehm, Social Democrats aren't all that social anymore these days. Ever since the 90's they have moved to the right, buying into the whole neo-liberal capitalist nonsense. This is especially true for Northern European social democrats. If you want real social democracy you are probably better off with green parties or more outspoken leftist parties.


What I want is a Steve Wozniak. We have plenty of Steve Jobs' in the EZ... but no Wozniak. Things don't work without a Wozniak.

The EU needs a few wise people to work, now that it's in trouble and still in its infancy.

So I dare you to find me one.

One.
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Message 1706839 - Posted: 30 Jul 2015, 23:55:17 UTC - in response to Message 1706833.  

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Message 1706929 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 8:33:10 UTC - in response to Message 1706830.  

Or it might have been interesting for yourself to measure your opinion against facts.


Ahaha! That's pretty much ALL I've been doing these past few months. Over and over. Gathering many, MANY pieces to solve this puzzle and put it together. I have no idea what makes you think otherwise. A very silly assumption to make, Michiel.

But fine, you don't want to back up what you say about the man with facts. That is to bad really, it would have been interesting to see if you were right or not.


You're not thinking this through again. What motivation do I have to hand in 30 pages of homework just to change your mind? You think that little bit of reverse psychology and a silly accusation about "facts" is reason enough for me to go to all that trouble? Why? So I can pat myself on the back and say "Hey, I managed to convince Michiel!". Are you crazy?:)

You have of course no obligation to try and convince me. But I would think, seeing how you participate in a discussion in which you repeatedly make certain statements and doubling down on those statements with the above response, that it is not a lot of trouble to actually present those findings.

Its like if you were to claim that you owned a garage full of Ferrari's, over and over again, and then when someone asks if you can show the rest of us a picture so we can admire your garage full of Ferrari's you claim that taking and posting a picture is to much trouble and you really don't care about convincing the rest of us that you actually own a garage full Ferrari's.

I'm sure you realize how that must look to other people.

But if we could have this conversation in a pub... well that would be a whole different situation entirely:)

I would think the pub is a far less appropriate place to show me your evidence about the mental state of a German politician. Unless of course your evidence requires alcohol to seem true ;)

If you where to find out that Germany had (pretty much) absolute political and economical power over the EZ countries... That it isn't playing at all by the rules and bending them for National gain all the time... And that its mastermind is a psychopath with no ability in his DNA to understand what Europe means to Europeans...

How would that make you feel?

If all that were true, I would feel annoyed that Europe got hijacked by some *ahem* politician.

But, before that would happen, I would need to know that this is the case. As it stands, I know this is not the case.
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Message 1706943 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 10:45:54 UTC - in response to Message 1706929.  

If you think I'm the guy that says he has a bunch of Ferraris but doesn't why are you wasting your time? Why feed the troll?

Are you trying to make a troll see the error of his ways? When in the history of the internet has that ever happened? Have you ever managed to enlighten one? How's that quest working out for you?

Have you ever seen anyone else enlighten one?
Have you ever been told by anyone you trust of a single example where a troll became a born-again logical person?
Have you even heard a rumor?
Anything?

Why are you chasing windmills?

...you claim that taking and posting a picture is to much trouble...


And there I was thinking I'd have to write the equivalent of a small book to answer your question to anyone's satisfaction. But if all it takes is a picture then just give me a few details on what kind of picture would convince you someone is a psychopath and I'll see if I can't find one for you.

Yes, that's sarcasm.

I would think the pub is a far less appropriate place to show me your evidence about the mental state of a German politician. Unless of course your evidence requires alcohol to seem true ;)


Yeah, let me translate what you just said. Essentially you're saying that discussions with a keyboard are more prolific than an actual face-to-face conversation (and you are finishing off that statement with a silly beer joke).

I beg to differ.
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Message 1706946 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 11:14:03 UTC - in response to Message 1706943.  

I would think the pub is a far less appropriate place to show me your evidence about the mental state of a German politician. Unless of course your evidence requires alcohol to seem true ;)

Yeah, let me translate what you just said. Essentially you're saying that discussions with a keyboard are more prolific than an actual face-to-face conversation (and you are finishing off that statement with a silly beer joke).

I beg to differ.

Will this help?

No? Then how about this :-)
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Message 1706958 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 12:35:07 UTC - in response to Message 1706946.  

I would think the pub is a far less appropriate place to show me your evidence about the mental state of a German politician. Unless of course your evidence requires alcohol to seem true ;)

Yeah, let me translate what you just said. Essentially you're saying that discussions with a keyboard are more prolific than an actual face-to-face conversation (and you are finishing off that statement with a silly beer joke).

I beg to differ.

Will this help?

No? Then how about this :-)

Jean-Claude Juncker in 2006:)
"Explain yourself after details about his home country of Luxembourg generous tax rules." said EU MEPs.
The storm against the former prime minister could lead to distrust in the EU Parliament.

-This Must be immediately clarified. If this is something that drags on he can not possibly stay, says Swedish EU Honourable Ulvskog (S) to TT on Juncker scandal on Thursday.

In what is quickly dubbed "LuxLeaks" reported the International Journalists Network ICIJ earlier that hundreds of foreign companies - including Ikea - will have received active help in Luxembourg to reduce their taxes. The information derived from the years 2008-10 when Juncker was sitting as prime minister in the tiny Grand Duchy.

Jean-Claude Juncker today.
https://youtu.be/juFxBhDSK9s
https://youtu.be/1k15gzZEuWE
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Message 1707009 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 14:48:01 UTC - in response to Message 1706958.  

Jean-Claude Juncker today.
https://youtu.be/juFxBhDSK9s
https://youtu.be/1k15gzZEuWE


I would love to have said this (I knicked it from the comments section):

"How can an unelected president of the EU call anyone a dictator?"

-----

Reminds me of the good ol' days!:)

The Fast Show - Very drunk
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Message 1707299 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 11:26:18 UTC - in response to Message 1706943.  

If you think I'm the guy that says he has a bunch of Ferraris but doesn't why are you wasting your time? Why feed the troll?

Are you trying to make a troll see the error of his ways? When in the history of the internet has that ever happened? Have you ever managed to enlighten one? How's that quest working out for you?

Have you ever seen anyone else enlighten one?
Have you ever been told by anyone you trust of a single example where a troll became a born-again logical person?
Have you even heard a rumor?
Anything?

Why are you chasing windmills?

Whether you are a troll or not is not really relevant to me. I can't control your responses, just my own, and that means I'm going to provide you with the opportunity to provide evidence for your claims. If you don't want to do that, thats fine, but then its on you, not me.

Of course, for you it doesn't matter, and it doesn't help me in any real way. But for the people who read this? Well, maybe it matters to them and maybe it helps them decide which one of us had the better argument.

And there I was thinking I'd have to write the equivalent of a small book to answer your question to anyone's satisfaction. But if all it takes is a picture then just give me a few details on what kind of picture would convince you someone is a psychopath and I'll see if I can't find one for you.

Yes, that's sarcasm.

Well if you can find a picture of Schauble brutally bashing someones head in with an axe while laughing out loud, clearly enjoying himself, I will accept your judgement that he is indeed a psychopath. Otherwise, examples that clearly demonstrate the character traits you posted earlier will do. So in either case you don't need to write a small book worth of character analysis (although you are of course free to do so if you want to go that far to convince me :P ).

Yeah, let me translate what you just said. Essentially you're saying that discussions with a keyboard are more prolific than an actual face-to-face conversation (and you are finishing off that statement with a silly beer joke).

I beg to differ.

No, I'm saying discussions with a keyboard might be more useful if you want to show me papers worth of information. Reading factual information is better than being told factual information, especially if its told during a highly informal setting.
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Message 1707301 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 11:58:20 UTC - in response to Message 1707299.  

No, I'm saying discussions with a keyboard might be more useful if you want to show me papers worth of information. Reading factual information is better than being told factual information, especially if its told during a highly informal setting.

There are 2 worlds out there - The "Real" world & the Bureaucratic world. Your statement clearly shows which one of those you belong to.
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