Windows 10: How It Works on Laptops and Tablets

Shudder!

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This Windows 7 Professional m/c is version 6.1.7601

If you want to check yours click on start, and type CMD into the search box. Then type ver.

Same Version Number here; and mine is from an OEM. I don't think there will be an issue upgrading mine to Win 10 and beyond... (Even though there is the technical distinction between OEM and Retail packaging.)

[EDIT]

...and, of the other three Win 7 systems:

HP Pavilion Laptop, came with Vista SP-2, Upgraded to Win 7 Home Premium.

HP Desktop, came with Win 7 installed; no Disc provided, 3-Disc "Recovery" Set created through Win 7.

HP Pavilion Laptop, came with Win 7 installed, no Disc provided, 3-Disc "Recovery" Set created through Win 7.

So, apparently, NONE of our four Win 7 systems is Full Retail; but, I suspect we'll get them to Win 10 Free upon release of Win 10.

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Quick P.S.

Back home and my Win 7 Ultimate machine also has version number 6.1.7601

Logged in remotely and my other XP machines are 5.1.2600

Exeter, my XP Pro x64 system reports differently; as expected, because it's x64...

5.2.3790


I was briefly considering using my Win 7 Upgrade Disc on it to prepare it to upgrade to Win 10... While I agree that some older hardware may be excluded; I do think that some printers will still be included... For example, we have a VERY OLD parallel HP LaserJet 4 ML that I've modified with a Netgear Printserver PS-101 to make it Networked. I've been able to get it seen on all five of our computers here in the house. I suspect that upgrading to Win 10 from our current Win 7 on four of our computers will keep that and the HP LaserJet 4000TN drivers in place when the Win 10 upgrade completes.

Tablets are a different story. My uncle was visiting and had a Win Tablet that had printer capability in the Win 8 OS. Though it saw the LaserJet 4000TN as a Networked printer, it refused to install an appropriate driver for it. Instead, I had to install the generic Brother Printer Driver for my dad's Brother ALL-in-One Printer/Scanner/Fax machine.

Only time will tell... We shall see when Win 10 releases; and what happens to Upgraded Computers from Win 7 & 8. Again, I suspect that since it is an Upgrade to the existing OS that it will keep the already installed printer drivers. Why would it intentionally break something that was installed and working on Win 7???

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

I can't get drivers for my Lexmark 730 that
worked just fine for years.....

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I suspect that since it is an Upgrade to the existing OS that it will keep the already installed printer drivers. Why would it intentionally break something that was installed and working on Win 7???

To force you to buy new hardware that you otherwise don't need.

I got the postcard from Quicken a couple weeks ago that this April, my current version will stop working online and if I want to keep using online services (downloading from all my accounts) I have buy the new version. I hate when they do this, but I know I can't fight it.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

My system have this reporting of system version.
Windows 8 Version 6.2 Build 9200
My guess is that Windows 10 will start using Version 6.3 Build something more than 9200.

I wouldnt be surprised that third part companies are using old Windows API and thats why drivers are not functioning after upgrades.

Mine is 06.03.9600.00

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Mine is 06.03.9600.00

Anyway it's a problem for third parties companies espacially for those making drivers when Microsoft changes the API to recognice the OS.
When Windows 8.1 where introduced they changed the API in such way that old drivers probably can't be installed.
From the beginning they used a struct called OSVERSIONINFO.

For applications that have been manifested for Windows 8.1. Applications not manifested for 8.1 will return the Windows 8 OS version value (6.2).
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724834(v=vs.85).aspx

OS version numbers never change regardless of Service Pack level.

6.3.9600 = Windows 8.1 / Server 2012 R2
6.2.9200 = Windows 8 / Server 2012
6.1.7601 = Windows 7 / Server 2008 R2
6.0.6002 = Windows Vista / Server 2008
5.2.3790 = Windows XP x86-64 / Server 2003 R2
5.1.2600 = Windows XP / Server 2003
5.0.2195 = Windows 2000 / Server 2000
4.90.3000 = Windows ME
4.10.2222 = Windows 98 Second Edition
4.10.1998 = Windows 98 "Gold"
4.0.1381 = Windows NT 4.0 / Windows NT 4.0 Server
4.0.950c = Windows 95 "C"
4.0.950b = Windows 95 "B"
4.0.950a = Windows 95 "A"
4.0.950 = Windows 95
3.51.1057 = Windows NT 3.51
3.5.807 = Windows NT 3.5
3.2 = Windows 3.2 (special Japanese release of Windows 3.1)
3.1.528 = Winodws NT 3.1
3.11 = Windows / Windows for Workgroups
3.1 = Windows 3.1

etc., etc., etc.


As I said, the name has not been the same as the version since Windows 95.

Anyway it's a problem for third parties companies espacially for those making drivers when Microsoft changes the API to recognice the OS.
When Windows 8.1 where introduced they changed the API in such way that old drivers probably can't be installed.

Incorrect. The only changes that have occurred with the driver subsystem, at least recently, is the requirement for WHQL Certification to reduce the number of system crashes (i.e. to increase the stability of the Windows platform).

Before that, the only change was to require drivers to follow the Windows Driver Model (WDM) standard, to ensure all drivers accessed hardware in the same, supportable way. WDM was introduced with Windows 98 nearly 20 years ago, and only recently became a requirement along with driver signing.

The only reason why older drivers won't work on newer systems is due to equipment manufacturers refusing to continue to support old devices, and by proxy refusing to submit their older software drivers to Microsoft for WHQL Certification. Part of the reason equipment manufacturers refuse to certify older drivers is due to the fact that WHQL Certification costs money, which increases the total cost of a product over its lifetime. It is easier to recuperate those costs by building it into the cost of a new device.

As much as I am a skeptic, I am not a cynic, and I don't believe all of this is done just to squeeze more money out of the consumer. It is done because the Windows platform is the largest in the world, and ensuring all possible combinations of software and hardware work correctly together without crashing the system is a terribly difficult job, and WHQL has had a major impact on improving system stability.

OS version numbers never change regardless of Service Pack level.

6.3.9600 = Windows 8.1 / Server 2012 R2
6.2.9200 = Windows 8 / Server 2012
6.1.7601 = Windows 7 / Server 2008 R2
6.0.6002 = Windows Vista / Server 2008
5.2.3790 = Windows XP x86-64 / Server 2003 R2
5.1.2600 = Windows XP / Server 2003
5.0.2195 = Windows 2000 / Server 2000

Tru but applications not manifested for 8.1 will return the Windows 8 OS version value (6.2).
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724834(v=vs.85).aspx
That goes for drivers as well.

OS version numbers never change regardless of Service Pack level.

6.3.9600 = Windows 8.1 / Server 2012 R2
6.2.9200 = Windows 8 / Server 2012
6.1.7601 = Windows 7 / Server 2008 R2
6.0.6002 = Windows Vista / Server 2008
5.2.3790 = Windows XP x86-64 / Server 2003 R2
5.1.2600 = Windows XP / Server 2003
5.0.2195 = Windows 2000 / Server 2000

Tru but applications not manifested for 8.1 will return the Windows 8 OS version value (6.2).
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724834(v=vs.85).aspx
That goes for drivers as well.

Agreed, but that is a limitation of the software. A lot of application or software installers will check the Windows version, and if it is not a version it has been tested with (newer or older), it will refuse to install.

This isn't an API issue, but rather a failsafe built into the installer itself.

OS version numbers never change regardless of Service Pack level.

6.3.9600 = Windows 8.1 / Server 2012 R2
6.2.9200 = Windows 8 / Server 2012
6.1.7601 = Windows 7 / Server 2008 R2
6.0.6002 = Windows Vista / Server 2008
5.2.3790 = Windows XP x86-64 / Server 2003 R2
5.1.2600 = Windows XP / Server 2003
5.0.2195 = Windows 2000 / Server 2000

Tru but applications not manifested for 8.1 will return the Windows 8 OS version value (6.2).
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724834(v=vs.85).aspx
That goes for drivers as well.

Agreed, but that is a limitation of the software. A lot of application or software installers will check the Windows version, and if it is not a version it has been tested with (newer or older), it will refuse to install.

This isn't an API issue, but rather a failsafe built into the installer itself.

Nonsense. I am a system developer and I want to know what OS version my costumers are using when there having problems.
And it is an API issue.
It started with Windows 8.1...
I would be very much appreciated if you can give some links to how check version numbers now.

Tru but applications not manifested for 8.1 will return the Windows 8 OS version value (6.2).
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724834(v=vs.85).aspx
That goes for drivers as well.

Agreed, but that is a limitation of the software. A lot of application or software installers will check the Windows version, and if it is not a version it has been tested with (newer or older), it will refuse to install.

This isn't an API issue, but rather a failsafe built into the installer itself.

Nonsense. I am a system developer and I want to know what OS version my costumers are using when there having problems.

Better hope they didn't turn on Compatibility Mode then. ;-)

And it is an API issue.
It started with Windows 8.1...
I would be very much appreciated if you can give some links to how check version numbers now.

After reviewing your link, I see where our miscommunication is coming from. The discussion I thought I was having centered around installing older drivers onto newer Operating Systems. The discussion you're having is about returning the correct version number in an application, and specifically targeting Windows 8.1.

[Edit] Still, your original statement:

When Windows 8.1 where introduced they changed the API in such way that old drivers probably can't be installed.

You're looking at it from the wrong direction. Using an older driver, obviously you're going to use an older installer to install that driver. The older installer, when asking the OS for version number on Windows 8.1 will return Windows 8. This will have the exact opposite effect that you state; it will not prevent any driver written for Windows 8 or older to be installed. Rather, since it represents 8.1 as 8, the installer will continue if the version number is valid and the manufacturer has allowed it.

Now, if they install this driver or software and they call you for support, or you have some sort of auto-reporting mechanism that uploads crash reports to your server, then yes, all of your data you're trying to collect for Windows 8.1 will show up as Windows 8 instead. At that point it is up to you to write a software update to correctly get the Windows 8.1 version number. Is that a problem? Not really. There is very little difference between Windows 8.1 and Windows 8 that this shouldn't matter in most cases (the only major change is in the UI). But this issue, in fact, will not prevent older drivers from installing on newer versions of Windows 8.1.

Windows 10: How It Works on Laptops and Tablets

Shudder!

+1

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

You're looking at it from the wrong direction. Using an older driver, obviously you're going to use an older installer to install that driver. The older installer, when asking the OS for version number on Windows 8.1 will return Windows 8. This will have the exact opposite effect that you state; it will not prevent any driver written for Windows 8 or older to be installed. Rather, since it represents 8.1 as 8, the installer will continue if the version number is valid and the manufacturer has allowed it.

Now, if they install this driver or software and they call you for support, or you have some sort of auto-reporting mechanism that uploads crash reports to your server, then yes, all of your data you're trying to collect for Windows 8.1 will show up as Windows 8 instead. At that point it is up to you to write a software update to correctly get the Windows 8.1 version number. Is that a problem? Not really. There is very little difference between Windows 8.1 and Windows 8 that this shouldn't matter in most cases (the only major change is in the UI). But this issue, in fact, will not prevent older drivers from installing on newer versions of Windows 8.1.

You are both right and wrong:)
Whats right is this

There is very little difference between Windows 8.1 and Windows 8 that this shouldn't matter in most cases (the only major change is in the UI)

I would say apart from UI Changes there are none!
So why change the API to recognice an OS?
Both driver developers and application developers have to make new releases because of this.
Often it turns out that the code works without the versioning check.
Been there, Done that:)

I would say apart from UI Changes there are none!
So why change the API to recognice an OS?

To ensure that all existing software still sees Windows 8.1 as Windows 8; to further show that anything that will work on Windows 8 will work on Windows 8.1.

Both driver developers and application developers have to make new releases because of this.

As we both agree that there are no architectural changes between Windows 8.1 and Windows 8, there's no actual need to write new release just for the version check alone unless you're targeting something specific in Windows 8.1.

Often it turns out that the code works without the versioning check.
Been there, Done that:)

Still goes back to: the version API in Windows 8.1 will not prevent a driver from installing as you originally claimed. ;)