Message boards :
Politics :
Exploitation of Humans
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
EXPLOITATION! Is that a fundamental freedom never to be denied for those that exploit and profit? Or should there be a freedom to be free and unharassed from exploitation, bullying, and deception? That seems to be a repeated theme in various threads on this forum causing much distraction and hot air... Where should the balance of freedom be? All in our only one world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30638 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
EXPLOITATION! First you are going to have to define it. I can just hear the word fair being said over and over. That word will have to be defined. Is it exploitation to buy something at the asking price, or does the seller have to be given several times more than the asking price because the buyer is willing to pay that? Is it exploitation to purchase when there is a glut on the market? Is it exploitation to rig the market to stop other sellers to get a high price? Showing up with a army to "buy" is something I think we would all agree on being exploitation, but a better word is theft. So we get to the hard part, a willing seller and a willing buyer. If no one rigs the market can it be exploitation? Or can this only happen in hindsight when a fact not known to one or both parties emerges after the deal? Or is it when one party is cognizant of all facts, but the other is not and it becomes obvious to the party with the facts that the other does not have them? |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
EXPLOITATION! Good points. How about the savy buyer going to yard sales or estate sales. He or she sees something that they know is worth big bucks and buy it for a song. If they buy it on the cheap is that exploitation? Or just good business sense? Now slavery on the other hand is definatley EXPLOITATION. Is that what you are talki8ng about Martin? [/quote] Old James |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Very good start thanks. So... What of morals, deception as opposed to "honest Marketing hype" (if that is somehow possible - when does exaggeration become deception?...), and what of causing deliberate harm?... Are we long overdue for holding human heads personally responsible for the excesses repeatedly seen in "business with no morals and at all costs"?... As though the excuse of "just following orders" or "just following company policy" is somehow a magic "get out of jail" card, collect 200 million payoff... Can that be condoned? All in our 'business' world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
celttooth Send message Joined: 21 Nov 99 Posts: 26503 Credit: 28,583,098 RAC: 0 |
Now this is real exploitation ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgjZc4x8JTU :):) (Do not watch if you have a weak stomach!) The adult version.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mOzIsuP2jQ |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Good points. In capitalism, good businesses sense and exploitation are often the same thing. Its good business sense to hire interns and have them work full time since you don't have to pay them, but it is in the end exploitation. Its good business sense to have all your clothes made in Asia for a few dimes and sell it for ten times the cost price. That is double exploitation. In every transaction where one person has an advantage over the other and uses (exploits) that advantage to gain the best deal out for themselves, we are essentially talking about exploitation. And in capitalism, that is nearly every transaction. |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
Workers of the World Unite - You have Nothing to Lose but your Chains! If you don't believe in solutions of the so called left then i can only think you believe in the solutions of the right . Unions are the left i spose you don't like them then , and if there is no unions people will and are exploited So your a Fascist then or a Hypocrite as it's the views of the right that allow workers to be exploited in the first place . 5.5% unemployment sounds good until you look at the wages they are being paid , I wonder who's being exploited now after the GFC , oh well i guess you can't turn to the unions to get you a pay raise then as there the left unless your words are cheap ! |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Unions are no better than non union shops. My last job was Union, Had to join or get fired. Was a membertwo days short of 24 years before the company packed up and moved to China. And beleive me I was glad to be in a union. IT seemed this U.T.C. company required the foreman and higer supervisors to go to BUTTHOLE school. It was a nasty place to work. And yes the union did seem to keep the deadwood around. Lots of relatives on the dole so to speak. The company I know work for is non union. They get rid of the deadwood. And treat us employees fairly. Im in a better job. No I sure dont make the money I did. But I dont have to work with useless sligs either and carry their weight. [/quote] Old James |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
Unions are no better than non union shops. My last job was Union, Had to join or get fired. Was a membertwo days short of 24 years before the company packed up and moved to China. And beleive me I was glad to be in a union. IT seemed this U.T.C. company required the foreman and higer supervisors to go to BUTTHOLE school. It was a nasty place to work. And yes the union did seem to keep the deadwood around. Lots of relatives on the dole so to speak. ? I sincerely do hope you are kidding us Clyde:)))) How do humans 'survive' after death I sometimes wonder... Then it comes as a flash to me and that flash doesn't involve corruption violence, nor capitalism Clyde. Sad thing is, there are so many people thinking the above, which will mean the end of humankind one day not that far in the future in astronomical terms. [edit] For some further explanation on the 'flash' word... There isn't any (for now) rOZZ Music Pictures |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Shouldn't the thread title just say Exploitation? After all, humans exploit everything under the sun, including each other. |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
...until they get promoted, then see their attitudes change. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Shouldn't the thread title just say Exploitation? After all, humans exploit everything under the sun, including each other. Nope... That would explode into too many sub-threads to be able to follow. And then there is that "Humans are a virus upon the planet" quote paraphrased from The Matrix... That in itself is expansive enough for a thread all for itself. I think Clyde will have enough of a soap box with this one for what we do to our fellow Humans to keep us in philosophical knots for long enough as it is... Please be welcome to start other specific exploitation threads. Meanwhile for our thread here, one burning question is whether we can condone business, fair or foul or outright vandalism, and all without morals? What of how that affects real people? All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Fair enough, so please explain just who is exploiting humans? It wouldn't be E.T by any chance? |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Fair enough, so please explain just who is exploiting humans?... Fellow humans... Bureaucracy... And?... And in the name of (who's) Freedom, can we allow "business without morals" and the human consequences be damned? All in our only one world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30638 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
And in the name of (who's) Freedom, can we allow "business without morals" and the human consequences be damned? Are you describing the fiduciary duty to the shareholder? (A concept dreamed up by lawyers, so you know its morality.) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30638 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
And in the name of (who's) Freedom, can we allow "business without morals" and the human consequences be damned? No the duty for those is not to the shareholder, at least not the shareholder of the company, but the workers who have money in the plan, or the shareholders of the plan. You likely didn't know about this agency of the Federal Government. It, PBGC is analogous to the FDIC for banks. |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
Thank you Glenn. I was waiting for that reply. You were easy. As I knew you were. yes i would So what are these other choicses then . Remembering you don't like socialist ideas too And Can you explain to me how i person trying to get a pay rise , how he can do that seeing as all the bosses have the power and i person by himself has none . your words are cheap arn't they Trying to prove how nasty you are where you |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
Shouldn't the thread title just say Exploitation? After all, humans exploit everything under the sun, including each other. This thread could also be called exploitations of humans by other humans because humans are the only ones doing the exploitation here Martin. Think about it. rOZZ Music Pictures |
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