It's religion, that's the culprit.

No. it's not religion.
What ever the reason it's criminal!
http://www.dawn.com/news/1151223/i-saw-death-so-close-student-recalls-peshawar-school-carnage

Ok, their goal is religiously tainted...

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rOZZ
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Can't Interrogate

Can't Kill

Can Only Watch, and Invite Them Into Our Countries As Immigrants, You Know for Dat Multi-Cultural Love Fest.

Weaklings of The World Unite and Invite The Killers To Your Home Countries.

Yep, Dat's Da Ticket.

LOVE.

UNDERSTANDING

COMPASSION

EMPHATHY

SOCIAL BENEFITS

and ONE BIG HUG

Yep

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

It's religion, that's the culprit.

No. it's not religion.
What ever the reason it's criminal!
http://www.dawn.com/news/1151223/i-saw-death-so-close-student-recalls-peshawar-school-carnage

Ok, their goal is religiously tainted...

No its because US are using drones!

:) Even in this thread one is able to smile:) Reality is so hard at times :'(

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rOZZ
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:(((((

Very sad news.

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:) Even in this thread one is able to smile:) Reality is so hard at times :'(

I dont smile...
Somebody else?

The fight goes on. But it is not between "the West" and "East" or between "Muslims" and "non-Muslims", as too many would have it. There is no "war of civilizations" but between civilization and the abyss. Between those who want to let the people - men and women, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists - select their lives themselves and those with fire and steel to force their own view of life on others.

This is really to much!
At least 141 people died in the attack in the school in Peshawar, Pakistan, 132 of them were children.

How can religious people do such thing! That's believing in Evil!!

They can do it the same way any religion can and has. They believe they are superior. They give themselves the right to ignore all rules because they are doing their god's work. For some insight, see the racism thread.

As to what sets them off, they see others who do not believe as they do having a good time, but they have to do their rituals. They turn on their TV and are exposed to other ways of life and hate builds. They can't find their culture on the satellite because they are a minority and it doesn't make money to program for them. More hate boils. Eventually they no longer can be tolerant and must wipe out what they see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6d8eKvegLI

They no longer can be tolerant and their frustration at others for making different choices reaches wits end, so they strike out. I wonder how they would score on the psychopath test?

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GUNS defeat them, and it will be Ugly.

Well it would be a first in military history where superior firepower won from a guerrilla style insurgency. And yes, this has often been tried.

ONLY Won, through out History, when waged as A WAR.

Philippine Insurrection 1905-1907, and 1946 to 1949.

When Mass Innocent Civilian Casualties are permitted, as in other Guerrilla Campaigns: Then they lose.

Understand History, and Human Nature. Especially when Terrified.

THEY will go too far (that is their 1000 year old history), and YOU will demand ANYTHING (as always happens) to save yourself and loved one's.

You may rebel against, and not admit the above. But... This has always been the response.

Neither you, nor human nature, have evolved.

You left out the Boer wars. That was ended when Britain put the Boer civilians in concentration camps. They were not called that, But was the same. They cut off all oustide intell and support. And they were not nice places either.

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Old James

Alright, so basically the conclusion is:

If you want to win from an insurgency with brute force, commit genocide or put people in concentration camps.

Hmm, yeah see, I have a problem with a policy that requires us to quite literally adopt the same tactics as the freaking Third Reich. No victory is worth that and I'm pretty sure there are other ways that allow us to win. Perhaps we should think about those before start singing the Horst Wessel lied.

Are you sure you've never worked in a call centre? You're scripts are unchanging, learnt them by heart have we?

Alright, so basically the conclusion is:

If you want to win from an insurgency with brute force, commit genocide or put people in concentration camps.

Hmm, yeah see, I have a problem with a policy that requires us to quite literally adopt the same tactics as the freaking Third Reich. No victory is worth that and I'm pretty sure there are other ways that allow us to win. Perhaps we should think about those before start singing the Horst Wessel lied.

+1

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rOZZ
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Are you sure you've never worked in a call centre? You're scripts are unchanging, learnt them by heart have we?

I work in a call center and I never, but never in my life have used a script before.

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rOZZ
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There are many who do.

Question for Michel...

...You've been called up, fully trained & given a rifle & ammunition. You see some armed civilians open fire on children. Will you let them finish shooting or fire back at them?

The arguments you've been stating are all good & well, but those are for the "dilpomats, politicians & military high Command" to resolve. In the meantime, you're a ground pounder...

...your thoughts on that...

There are many who do.

Question for Michel...

...You've been called up, fully trained & given a rifle & ammunition. You see some armed civilians open fire on children. Will you let them finish shooting or fire back at them?

The arguments you've been stating are all good & well, but those are for the "dilpomats, politicians & military high Command" to resolve. In the meantime, you're a ground pounder...

...your thoughts on that...

I'm not saying that they shouldn't defend themselves when attacked. Obviously they have every right to do that. But defending yourself when you are under attack (shooting back when you are being shot at) has never resulted in a genocide nor will it in this case win the war.

And yeah my arguments are aimed for the high command/politicians. But the call to wipe them from the face of the earth through superior firepower is just as much an argument aimed at high command.


Also, full disclosure, I did work at a Call center 5 years ago. I hated every minute I spend there though.

Fair point, so may I suggest you state that when others relate to matters at ground level.

So, just how do you deal with organizations whose goal is anarchy, or in other words the total breakdown of law and order? or at least non muslim non religious law and order.

If the torture of just one terrorist prevented just one event like what just happened from occurring was it justified? Does the means justify the end when the stakes are so high and failure opens the way for the slaughter of innocent women and children?

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

So, just how do you deal with organizations whose goal is anarchy, or in other words the total breakdown of law and order? or at least non muslim non religious law and order.

If the torture of just one terrorist prevented just one event like what just happened from occurring was it justified? Does the means justify the end when the stakes are so high and failure opens the way for the slaughter of innocent women and children?

As I said in the other thread, you starve the fire from oxygen. So, find the source of oxygen and cut it off. Look, we already tried it the brute force way and it didnt work. Afghanistan is a failure, Iraq an even bigger failure, the brute force superior firepower methods DONT WORK. Oh but Clyde says that we basically haven't been brute enough, and that we need to start napalming the villages and hit the civilians. Then surely they will eventually die out. Right?

Well, in this case, this attack had as specific motivation the fact that the Pakistani army had killed innocent civilians in their strikes against the Taliban. So maybe it doesn't work all that well after all.

Alright, so basically the conclusion is:

If you want to win from an insurgency with brute force, commit genocide or put people in concentration camps.

Hmm, yeah see, I have a problem with a policy that requires us to quite literally adopt the same tactics as the freaking Third Reich. No victory is worth that and I'm pretty sure there are other ways that allow us to win. Perhaps we should think about those before start singing the Horst Wessel lied.

+1

How many Innocent Children did Winston Churchill Incinerate, on purpose?

How many Innocent Children did Roosevelt/Truman Incinerate, on purpose?

Did they sing the Horst Wessel song? Did they need to?

No different today.

War is, and always will be - Ugly and Murderous.

+10

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rOZZ
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How many Innocent Children did Winston Churchill Incinerate, on purpose?

How many Innocent Children did Roosevelt/Truman Incinerate, on purpose?

Did they sing the Horst Wessel song? Did they need to?

No different today.

War is, and always will be - Ugly and Murderous.

You forget that this isn't how you defeated the Nazis. All those bombs only temporarily shut down the Nazi state. You defeated the Nazis when you rebuild Germany, rebuild their economy and ensured they had enough to eat, replaced the Nazi leadership with a democratically elected government.

I can guarantee you that if the allies had simply razed Germany and left after Hitler killed himself and the Nazi leadership surrendered, a new Nazi government would be in power 10 maybe 20 years later and WW3 would have started somewhere in the 1970's. Victory came when the allies thoroughly discredited the idea that Nazism had anything good to offer to the German people, but also by offering them something practically superior in return.

But why wouldn't a similar approach work against the Taliban? Bomb them in submission first and then move in with the capitalism. Well there are a variety of reasons. First of all, the Taliban don't have a state of their own, unlike the Nazis. They are therefor not bound by the infrastructure of that state, unlike the Nazis. Basically, there isn't a lot of stuff you can drop a bomb on and hurt them, except their men directly. But that is difficult when they are hiding in caves and other places where bombs have trouble reaching them. Secondly, bombing civilians is counter productive and that has always been counter productive. At the best of times it does nothing, at the worst of times, it creates sympathy for your enemy. Basically, bombing in this case is going to hurt so many civilians that by the end of your bombing campaign you pretty much have the whole area against you. You don't bomb them into submission, you bomb them into more actively resisting you. Of course you could keep bombing until literally everyone in that region is dead, but that is impractical, politically impossible and by the end of it you probably made the whole world into your enemy. So stupid idea. Final option is boots on the ground and really, its just as ineffective as dropping bombs and just as impossible to get it set up. Unlike WW2 where boots on the ground where absolutely necessary and effective.

So really we don't have any workable military options here. Sure, there is self defense of existing army units tasked with defending certain locations, but there is no practical way to set up an offensive that actually works. So instead, why don't we skip to the non military options? Those don't kill civilians, those don't turn the locals against you nor do they foster support for the terrorists. Instead, you let the terrorists defeat themselves, by making their cause irrelevant to the people, or better yet, making themselves hated by the people because they keep hurting the people. Their supply of volunteers dries up and their places to hide also diminish as locals become increasingly less willing to cooperate with them and more willing to cooperate with the actual government army and have them clean up.

You forget that this isn't how you defeated the Nazis. All those bombs only temporarily shut down the Nazi state. You defeated the Nazis when you rebuild Germany, rebuild their economy and ensured they had enough to eat, replaced the Nazi leadership with a democratically elected government.

That only works if they want a democratically elected government. The assumption that they want a democratically elected government is false, hence the mess.

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