Good money/gold links. :~)

Gas is getting so cheap right now, I might splurge and fill up with Premium. Not sure how much my car would really appreciate it, though.

In the past - yes.

Today - no.

DON'T!

Plus 1
Read your owners manual as to what gas to use.My 2010 Kia ,SAYS NOT TO USE E 85.I can use 10% ethanol. But not 85%. I hate Ethanol anyway. It is a bogus claim to save energy. With real gas I get 35 MPG. With 10% fake addidtive I get 32 MPG.
So how do I save money?

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[/quote]

Old James

Good money/gold links. :~)

Gas is getting so cheap right now, I might splurge and fill up with Premium. Not sure how much my car would really appreciate it, though.

In the past - yes.

Today - no.

DON'T!

Why Clyde ! no lead in the petrol now so not worth it you reckon ?

Mite stuff his engine now........??

Engines today, unlike the past, are finely tuned for the Recommended Fuel.

Yes, their pollution control equipment expects the fuel recommended in the owners manual. Read the book. Many say use no less than octane ##. Some however say use only octane ##. If the octane is wrong it can drive the engine timing to a point where damage occurs. Also pay attention to what % ethanol is allowed. I know of some imports sold in the USA where the book says not more than 5% but it is nearly impossible to find anything but 10% in some places in the USA! And never put E85 in a engine unless it is made for it, just like putting diesel in a gas engine.

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I never thought using a higher than recommended octane would mess things up. I figured it would be like running some of that gas treatment through your car, only better.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I never thought using a higher than recommended octane would mess things up. I figured it would be like running some of that gas treatment through your car, only better.

Before the computer controled timing a half tank of higher octane did help clean up the gunk from the engine. Now, it screws up the timing.

Higher Octane ratings allow a modern engine to compress the fuel/air mixture a little bit more and will fire the piston at a little closer to top dead center. This will result in somewhat greater horsepower ratings than if you burned lower octane "Regular" gas. Most modern engines have a knock sensor which will alter the point in the compression stroke at which the spark is introduced,

In general it will have no effect on cleaning the cylinder--other additives will do this.

In order to get my "CHECK ENGINE" light to go out to pass inspection each year I have to use premium gasoline. The higher compression results in higher temperatures which converts more of the mixture to CO-2 and allows the oxygen sensor to report a normal range of Carbon Monoxide. You would expect higher Nitrogen Oxides however.

Sounds like you have to be a dam chemist these days just to fill ya car up with petrol .

oh my give me the days when all you had to worry about was weather you put regular or super , stuff this high octane , e85 , e90 , regular . super , gas , diesel .
And this is what they call direct action for GW , just have a carbon tax and go back to only 2 fuels to dam complicated other wise .

Geeees well all have to go back to school to learn chemistry just to fuel up our cars soon

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In order to get my "CHECK ENGINE" light to go out to pass inspection each year I have to use premium gasoline. The higher compression results in higher temperatures which converts more of the mixture to CO-2 and allows the oxygen sensor to report a normal range of Carbon Monoxide. You would expect higher Nitrogen Oxides however.

My Check Engine light comes and goes randomly, but I've noticed it often goes off either during long acceleration or even deceleration. Someone did mention to me it might have something to do with the oxygen sensor. The 1999 Saturn Sc1 is only supposed to be fed 87 Octane, though, so I guess I'll keep it that way.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Modern cars tend to be clever enough to work out which petrol they have in the tank.

My Volvo V70XC (2000) says in the manual that it's fine to run on regular petrol (that's 95 RON over here) but will also run on super (98 RON) which gives about 3 extra horsepower so it's not worth the premium. It can also run on 91 RON, which isn't optimal but the engine won't be damaged.

None of which really matters for me since my car is converted to run on LPG, which is about half the price, has an octane rating of 110, and when used in a turbocharged car that's been appropriately retuned can deliver more power than either grade of petrol.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

What was the cost of conversion?

The savings (if any) regarding Cost of LNG, and Price Per Mile of Operation?

Do the savings (if any), offset the cost of conversion?

It's LPG (propane), not LNG (methane).

Cost of conversion £900.

Current fuel prices (at the BP station nearest my house): Petrol 120 p/l, LPG 67 p/l.
Saving per litre: 120-67= 53p
Break even point: 900/0.53= 1698 litres or 374 UK gallons.
At 25 mpg, 374*25 = 9350 miles.
My average annual mileage ~10,000.

Ergo, less than one year to make the cost of conversion back, any mileage beyond there is a saving.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

I am surprised Simon you say you get better milage from gas normally you lose power and the savings aren't as good because you use more fuel to compensate for the loss of power not that i know that much about gas conversion only what friends whom have it have said

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I am surprised Simon you say you get better milage from gas normally you lose power and the savings aren't as good because you use more fuel to compensate for the loss of power not that i know that much about gas conversion only what friends whom have it have said

For a badly fitted conversion what you say is true.
Many garages just bolt the kit on and have done with it. A good garage takes the time to optimise the mapping to each engine.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

mmm interesting i don't think my friends car has turbo's or anything or that he keeps up the maintenance but i'll keep what you said in mind when i do buy my next wheels .
I don't think oil will go down enough for you to run only petrol yet if your prices are similar to ours are which they do for gas anyway .

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What was the cost of conversion?

The savings (if any) regarding Cost of LNG, and Price Per Mile of Operation?

Do the savings (if any), offset the cost of conversion?

It's LPG (propane), not LNG (methane).

Cost of conversion £900.

Current fuel prices (at the BP station nearest my house): Petrol 120 p/l, LPG 67 p/l.
Saving per litre: 120-67= 53p
Break even point: 900/0.53= 1698 litres or 374 UK gallons.
At 25 mpg, 374*25 = 9350 miles.
My average annual mileage ~10,000.

Ergo, less than one year to make the cost of conversion back, any mileage beyond there is a saving.

A big bonus is much less or even nil toxic pollution out of the exhaust (USA: tailpipe).

CO2 output is still the same and perhaps a little worse in the energy cost to liquefy the fuel.


So... A big help to avoid killing people in the cities sooner. We still need to move off fossils for the medium term and for the future.

And past procrastination makes that "medium term" due NOW.


All in our only one world,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

At one time, I thought the folks in the used cooking oil business might be onto something for supplemental alternate fuel, but it seems to have fizzled.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

you talking about eco fuel , it's still being used but just not main stream and it's not realy a alternative to other fuels . You would need to grow to much food to get the oil out off it and we need the land for food we can eat not to make oil and i don't think we would be able to grow enough to supply the markets
Then there a problem that it only works in normal diesal engines not engines with fuel injection from what i've read about it

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At one time, I thought the folks in the used cooking oil business might be onto something for supplemental alternate fuel, but it seems to have fizzled.

That took off well enough for demand to far outstrip supply.

Also, hopefully more healthy eating also means the supply is reducing. Meanwhile, there are various other biofuels being put to use, including from waste.

And we are not the first to use biofuel... Pioneering work on an industrial scale fueled parts of the German war machine in WWII...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

you talking about eco fuel , it's still being used but just not main stream and it's not realy a alternative to other fuels . You would need to grow to much food to get the oil out off it and we need the land for food we can eat not to make oil and i don't think we would be able to grow enough to supply the markets
Then there a problem that it only works in normal diesal engines not engines with fuel injection from what i've read about it

At least for the UK and likely the EU, all modern engines should be perfectly fine. The EMU adjusts the timing for the fuel type automatically.

Some very old engines using old types of seals on the fuel lines might be damaged but then also, they may well be old enough to need new seals and other parts in any case!


Meanwhile, we still need to get off the fossils sooner rather than later and transport is a big fossils guzzling polluter...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

martin i don't like that idea even if the German's id supply a lot of there war machine with bio fuels . We have to many people now and are already having trouble keeping up supply's of food to eat let alone diverting it for fuel mate .

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At one time, I thought the folks in the used cooking oil business might be onto something for supplemental alternate fuel, but it seems to have fizzled.

At the time businesses were giving it away. That was one way they could dispose of it at no cost to them. However when those same businesses found Out they could make money by selling it. End of game.

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[/quote]

Old James

Yeah, the used cooking oil is definitely a small niche market, for all the reasons mentioned. I read an article in The New Yorker about it a couple years ago, and they reported the back alley collection process in some cities had turned sort of mafia-esque.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place