Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2)

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Message 1669719 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 8:50:32 UTC - in response to Message 1669517.  

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2015/04/23/chinese-government-says-please-stop-hiring-funeral-strippers/

What a strange idea.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1669794 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 14:53:52 UTC - in response to Message 1669727.  

/digress from thread title

Not so much. Culture decides how much of the thread title is permitted or encouraged.
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Message 1669800 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 15:04:04 UTC

Are Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... only affected to women?
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Message 1669846 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 17:13:58 UTC - in response to Message 1669468.  

..

Same goes for sexism... Some men do not even realise they are patronizing towards all women... As seen in this very thread...
...


All in our only one world,
Martin

Indeed, Martin. Sexism is so ingrained that there are people who display sexist and patronising attitudes and don't even realise it.

I am aware that this is your thread, Martin, but it does seem to be a thread about women's issues.

As a women I feel that I am better qualified to highlight what those are than most men, because most men (due to them not living in this world as women) are woefully ignorant as to what the world is like to live in if you are female.

When some one dismisses certain feminists as being 'extremists' it is (possibly deliberately) insulting. It is insulting, because as a man you are claiming that you are a better judge of what issues women's find important and worth fighting over than women. This is the very definition of patronising.

Please be aware that I will mod this thread in particular more strictly than others because I live in world where people who don't understand my experience feel they have the right to tell me what to feel and how to show my feelings and what I should and should not get upset about simply because I am a women.

This is the reality.

I also live in world where it seems that the worse thing that can happen to a women is being raped and murdered and simply by being a women the odds of this happening to me are vastly increased.

This does not mean I should not get upset about all the other negative things that I will experience because I am a women. These things can range from being charged more by a car mechanic, or being paid less, to having my clothing choices policed.

So if you are a male that does not understand why a group of women (and I do believe it was a very small group of women) felt the need to publicly burn their bras then I suggest you shut up until you have educated yourself about the experiences of women.

Unless you are a women that lives in a world where your breasts are considered public property to be commented on, then I suggest you shut up until you educate yourself.

It is very common for spaces created by women or for women to be taken over by men who feel they have the god given right to tell women what they should and should not be upset about. For that very reason I do strictly police this thread for off topic posts.

This thread was created by Martin with the best intentions to talk about the terrible things are that our done to women simply because they are women. I would prefer to live in a world where not only do women get to tell people what their lives are like because they are women, but they are listened to when they do.
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Message 1669848 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 17:20:07 UTC - in response to Message 1669846.  

..
Same goes for sexism... Some men do not even realise they are patronizing towards all women... As seen in this very thread...

I am aware that this is your thread, Martin, but it does seem to be a thread about women's issues.

There are men and women. Now it's a third gender called other.
Where do they belong?
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Message 1669859 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 17:28:01 UTC - in response to Message 1669848.  

..
Same goes for sexism... Some men do not even realise they are patronizing towards all women... As seen in this very thread...

I am aware that this is your thread, Martin, but it does seem to be a thread about women's issues.

There are men and women. Now it's a third gender called other.
Where do they belong?

Where they feel they belong.
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Message 1669882 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 18:12:51 UTC - in response to Message 1669859.  

..
Same goes for sexism... Some men do not even realise they are patronizing towards all women... As seen in this very thread...

I am aware that this is your thread, Martin, but it does seem to be a thread about women's issues.

There are men and women. Now it's a third gender called other.
Where do they belong?

Where they feel they belong.

Correct answer:)
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Message 1669998 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 21:09:18 UTC - in response to Message 1669958.  

Oh fer god's sake ....

Appealing to her won't help ....
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Message 1669999 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 21:10:23 UTC - in response to Message 1669920.  

Welcome to the boards tami
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Message 1670052 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 22:50:22 UTC - in response to Message 1669846.  

When some one dismisses certain feminists as being 'extremists' it is (possibly deliberately) insulting. It is insulting, because as a man you are claiming that you are a better judge of what issues women's find important and worth fighting over than women. This is the very definition of patronising.

It could also be that the person who calls certain feminists 'extremists' not so much disagrees with what that person claims to stand for, but objects to the way they go about standing for it.

Take FEMEN as an example. I do think they are extremists, not because I disagree with what they seek to accomplish, but by how they seek to accomplish it (I find them patronizing and insulting). Or take some of the 2nd wave sex negative Feminists, the ones that claim all sex is degrading for women because its all supposedly about male domination over female bodies. Somewhere in there they make a good point about how society handles sex and how we see women, but at the same time they go a bit far in their assertions, to the point where even other Feminists think they go to far. Isn't that the definition of extremism?

The fact that a lot of people misuse the label doesn't mean the label has no value. Nazi, terrorist, liberal, socialist, communist, they are all labels that are misused constantly in discussions or debates by people who can't construct actual arguments that stand up to scrutiny and who try to win using cheap tricks like this. Still, all of those labels have a point when used correctly.
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Message 1670165 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 1:19:23 UTC - in response to Message 1670052.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 1:42:14 UTC

When some one dismisses certain feminists as being 'extremists' it is (possibly deliberately) insulting. It is insulting, because as a man you are claiming that you are a better judge of what issues women's find important and worth fighting over than women. This is the very definition of patronising.

It could also be that the person who calls certain feminists 'extremists' not so much disagrees with what that person claims to stand for, but objects to the way they go about standing for it.

Well if that were the case I don't understand why Germaine Greer or 'bra burning' would come up as if these are examples of extremism. Apart from anything else, it has been pointed out to me that the idea of the 'bra burning' feminist' is a fiction in the first place.


Bra-Burning Feminists: NOT
Another Myth of Women's History

So I can only take such dismissals and attacks as ways of silencing women who don't know their place.
Take FEMEN as an example. I do think they are extremists, not beca[url]use I disagree with what they seek to accomplish, but by how they seek to accomplish it (I find them patronizing and insulting).

You will have to provide me examples of where they have crossed from activism to extremism before you make that claim. I am not finding any on first look.

Perhaps you would have labelled the suffragettes as extremists? There is certainly an argument for that, but where would be without them?

Or take some of the 2nd wave sex negative Feminists, the ones that claim all sex is degrading for women because its all supposedly about male domination over female bodies. Somewhere in there they make a good point about how society handles sex and how we see women, but at the same time they go a bit far in their assertions, to the point where even other Feminists think they go to far. Isn't that the definition of extremism?
[/url]

Again you are going to have to provide actual examples of this. As we have seen from the 'bra burning' feminists label, there is a lot of misinformation out there.
The fact that a lot of people misuse the label doesn't mean the label has no value. Nazi, terrorist, liberal, socialist, communist, they are all labels that are misused constantly in discussions or debates by people who can't construct actual arguments that stand up to scrutiny and who try to win using cheap tricks like this. Still, all of those labels have a point when used correctly.

'Correctly' being the operative word there. Considering the extremism women face on a daily basis, I am not sure if these relatively mild feminist responses you have singled out actually qualify as extremism.
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Message 1670297 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 9:21:35 UTC - in response to Message 1670165.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 9:23:10 UTC

Well if that were the case I don't understand why Germaine Greer or 'bra burning' would come up as if these are examples of extremism. Apart from anything else, it has been pointed out to me that the idea of the 'bra burning' feminist' is a fiction in the first place.


Bra-Burning Feminists: NOT
Another Myth of Women's History

So I can only take such dismissals and attacks as ways of silencing women who don't know their place.

Like I said, I agree with you that in a lot of cases the label 'extremist' is used in the same way people use the label 'liberal' or 'communist' or whatever. No argument there.

You will have to provide me examples of where they have crossed from activism to extremism before you make that claim. I am not finding any on first look.

Well, there is the fact that they have a habit of trying to insult everyone of an entire religion. Thats pretty extreme and not at all helpful. I think there are plenty of feminists who are also religious and who have no problem combining their religion with their feminist views. Nor do they need 'saving' by FEMEN (thats the patronizing bit).

That said, when they are not trying to liberate women from the patriarchal oppression of religion, they do make some very good points, and their brand of activism certainly draws attention to their causes.

Perhaps you would have labelled the suffragettes as extremists? There is certainly an argument for that, but where would be without them?

I don't like to label an entire movement as extremists, but they definitely had some extremists in their ranks. Sorry, but anyone who tries to make a point through violence and destruction is an extremist and rather incompetent at making said point. I prefer my social change to come from non violent actions.

Again you are going to have to provide actual examples of this. As we have seen from the 'bra burning' feminists label, there is a lot of misinformation out there.

How about the Feminists groups that are against porn, especially in the late 70's and 80's. Their views are pretty extreme. Andrea Dworkin who claims that all porn is intrinsically harmful to women. Those groups definitely had good points, but at the same time, those groups took those views way too far and they were rather patronizing towards sex workers and women who are into BDSM, etc. And then there was that time they tried to outlaw porn in such a way it would be a massive breach of civil liberties and free speech (and once again, also extremely patronizing towards women, men and transgenders who work in porn).

'Correctly' being the operative word there. Considering the extremism women face on a daily basis, I am not sure if these relatively mild feminist responses you have singled out actually qualify as extremism.

Well, insulting entire religions and proposing legislation that is a blatant attack on free speech are pretty extremist things to do. Even if the problems women face are also extreme in nature. That by itself doesn't excuse extremism from the other side. And its my firm conviction that extremism can't be fought with extremism.
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Message 1670385 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 16:03:53 UTC - in response to Message 1670300.  

... but it seems to me that many women want to be seen as the great hard done by.
...

Thank you for making my point so well for me. This is exactly the attitude that is so wrong in the world today.

I'm not going to say any more to you about this, because you are so wilfully entrenched in your denial that short of finding a man to explain it to you, there is little I can do.
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Message 1670389 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 16:12:49 UTC - in response to Message 1670297.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 16:13:43 UTC

You will have to provide me examples of where they have crossed from activism to extremism before you make that claim. I am not finding any on first look.

Well, there is the fact that they have a habit of trying to insult everyone of an entire religion. Thats pretty extreme and not at all helpful. I think there are plenty of feminists who are also religious and who have no problem combining their religion with their feminist views. Nor do they need 'saving' by FEMEN (thats the patronizing bit).

The irony of your statement is that FEMEN was taken over by a man who was the driving force behind most of the radical acts you are complaining about.

If Femen was set up by a man, where does that leave its topless protests?

That said, when they are not trying to liberate women from the patriarchal oppression of religion, they do make some very good points, and their brand of activism certainly draws attention to their causes.

Liberating women from the patriarchal oppression of religion seems like an excellent idea to me. I am not sure what the problem with that is.


I don't like to label an entire movement as extremists, but they definitely had some extremists in their ranks. Sorry, but anyone who tries to make a point through violence and destruction is an extremist and rather incompetent at making said point. I prefer my social change to come from non violent actions.

Don't we all. However, sometimes you have to make quite a fuss if you want anyone to listen to. Especially if you are from a group that is traditionally ignored.


How about the Feminists groups that are against porn, especially in the late 70's and 80's. Their views are pretty extreme. Andrea Dworkin who claims that all porn is intrinsically harmful to women. Those groups definitely had good points, but at the same time, those groups took those views way too far and they were rather patronizing towards sex workers and women who are into BDSM, etc. And then there was that time they tried to outlaw porn in such a way it would be a massive breach of civil liberties and free speech (and once again, also extremely patronizing towards women, men and transgenders who work in porn).

The feminist movement is full of different people with different views. Most of those ideas, which came from a reasonable place considering how bad things were for women back in the 70s and 80s, however, the movement has moved on as we have gotten a better idea of human sexuality. It is only because of the feminist movement that we have been able to freely explore female sexuality because it was such a taboo before hand.


Well, insulting entire religions and proposing legislation that is a blatant attack on free speech are pretty extremist things to do. Even if the problems women face are also extreme in nature. That by itself doesn't excuse extremism from the other side. And its my firm conviction that extremism can't be fought with extremism.

Again, I think the 'extreme' seems to be a label that depends on the eye of the beholder. There is so much woeful ignorance of the way women have been treated, and still are treated, that until you actually live as women I am not sure you are in a position to judge the worthiness of our response.
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Message 1670401 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 16:33:01 UTC - in response to Message 1670389.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 16:33:35 UTC

The irony of your statement is that FEMEN was taken over by a man who was the driving force behind most of the radical acts you are complaining about.

Take over? The group was founded by a guy. That said, can't guys be Feminists? Or allies? Whatever you want to call it? Just because hes a guy doesn't mean FEMEN is not a Feminist advocacy group and just because hes a guy doesn't mean some of their actions are a bit extreme and patronizing.

Liberating women from the patriarchal oppression of religion seems like an excellent idea to me. I am not sure what the problem with that is.

Well, you might think that, but there are plenty of people, men and women, who like their religion and who want to have religion play a role in their life. Having a bunch of topless women storm in telling them that they are being oppressed and that they should give up religion to not be oppressed is patronizing and probably not entirely true.

Don't we all. However, sometimes you have to make quite a fuss if you want anyone to listen to. Especially if you are from a group that is traditionally ignored.

You can make a fuss without setting off bombs or destroying property.

The feminist movement is full of different people with different views. Most of those ideas, which came from a reasonable place considering how bad things were for women back in the 70s and 80s, however, the movement has moved on as we have gotten a better idea of human sexuality. It is only because of the feminist movement that we have been able to freely explore female sexuality because it was such a taboo before hand.

Yeah sure, but that doesn't mean that Feminism includes also groups like that, and which were extreme in their views on human sexuality.

Again, I think the 'extreme' seems to be a label that depends on the eye of the beholder. There is so much woeful ignorance of the way women have been treated, and still are treated, that until you actually live as women I am not sure you are in a position to judge the worthiness of our response.

I disagree. Yeah, sure, I'm not a woman and yeah that means Im not qualified to pretend to know what it is like to be a woman. That however does not mean Feminism is immune from criticism by men simply because 'they can't understand what its like to be a woman.' Feminist arguments should still pass the criteria set by reason and logic, and if they don't its fair to criticize them, the gender of the critic doesn't matter, at least not as long as their criticisms hold up to reason and logic as well.
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Message 1670409 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 17:02:42 UTC - in response to Message 1670401.  


Take over? The group was founded by a guy. That said, can't guys be Feminists? Or allies? Whatever you want to call it? Just because hes a guy doesn't mean FEMEN is not a Feminist advocacy group and just because hes a guy doesn't mean some of their actions are a bit extreme and patronizing.

There is some debate as to whether the group of was founded or taken over by a guy. However, it was him that led the extreme protests you are complaining about, and he did not lead the group in a way that was respectful to women. I am not sure he actually does qualify as a feminist when he take over a group of women because 'they are not doing it right'. That doesn't sound like a feminist to me. That sounds like a power trip.


Well, you might think that, but there are plenty of people, men and women, who like their religion and who want to have religion play a role in their life. Having a bunch of topless women storm in telling them that they are being oppressed and that they should give up religion to not be oppressed is patronizing and probably not entirely true.

I suspect you would find my views on religion and what should be done about it rather extreme. I am sure that their protests were about raising awareness and debate, not about literally converting those individuals. Of course, when a group is oppressed, they might think something is bad, but be too afraid to speak out or act on that. It could be enough to see others also think it is bad.


You can make a fuss without setting off bombs or destroying property.

Personally I don't agree with harming people for a cause, however, every time you make this claim of feminists being extreme (and how many feminists have actually planted bombs compared to how many male led organisations? I suspect the numbers are actually insignificant in comparison.) I get a flash of all the horrible things that have been done just in the west to women I know in the last century and wonder why women are being so damn nice about it.


Yeah sure, but that doesn't mean that Feminism includes also groups like that, and which were extreme in their views on human sexuality.

The current porn industry is male dominated and has a very extreme view on human sexuality that is damaging and unrealistic. There is nothing that feminists have done that can even begin to top the extremity of the current porn industry. Is it any wonder that some feminists violently recoil from it and get a distorted and frightening view of male sexuality? I am glad that I did not learn about men from watching porn. I would probably have joined a nunnery. I try to warn my own male children that watching porn will given them a false view of male-female relationships, but porn is so pervasive I have little hope of them being able to avoid it until they are grown human beings with a healthy respect for women.


I disagree. Yeah, sure, I'm not a woman and yeah that means Im not qualified to pretend to know what it is like to be a woman. That however does not mean Feminism is immune from criticism by men simply because 'they can't understand what its like to be a woman.' Feminist arguments should still pass the criteria set by reason and logic, and if they don't its fair to criticize them, the gender of the critic doesn't matter, at least not as long as their criticisms hold up to reason and logic as well.

One of the foundations of logic is having all the facts so that you can draw a logical conclusions. The best way to learn about the facts of the female existence is to listen to women with out judgement and believe that our experience is real and valid. You cannot learn about it from just your own experience of the world. How can you competently criticise something when you don't know much about it?
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Message 1670435 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 18:07:57 UTC - in response to Message 1670409.  

Seems to be changing .....
The current porn industry is male dominated and has a very extreme view on human sexuality that is damaging and unrealistic.
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/19/a_new_breed_of_porn_ceo_female/
Now she’s the 29-year-old CEO of an adult site, and one of a growing number of women taking the helm of everything from porn production houses to sex toy companies. That said, the industry is still dominated by old white guys. But that’s slowly changing. Quentin Boyer, who has been in the industry since 1997, says “the shift in the ‘porn executive demographic’” began “in the late ’90s, when Internet-based companies began to assert themselves in the adult entertainment market.” Says Boyer, the public relations director for Pink Visual, a porn production company that advertises on Fleshbot and also happens to have a female CEO: “In my view, Lux is part of the wave of new talent that has arrived in the adult entertainment industry as a direct result of the industry’s ‘webification,’ if you will.”


If Femen was set up by a man, where does that leave its topless protests?
For the documentary, Ukraine Is Not a Brothel, which is being shown at the Venice film festival, Green recorded an interview with Svyatski in which he acknowledges he may have started the group to meet women. His reply is a masterclass in how to cop out: "Perhaps yes, somewhere in my deep subconscious."
Feminist heal thyself.
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Message 1670476 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 20:41:42 UTC - in response to Message 1670409.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 20:45:04 UTC

There is some debate as to whether the group of was founded or taken over by a guy. However, it was him that led the extreme protests you are complaining about, and he did not lead the group in a way that was respectful to women. I am not sure he actually does qualify as a feminist when he take over a group of women because 'they are not doing it right'. That doesn't sound like a feminist to me. That sounds like a power trip.

I'm not sure if you can judge whether someone you don't know is a Feminist or not based on how he leads a feminist activist group. And even if he is on a powertrip, thats not mutually exclusive with being a feminist. Also, if you have a good idea about how to get feminist issues into the spotlight, and you think you can help a feminist action group to do that more effectively than they have been doing before, why should your gender stop you?

I suspect you would find my views on religion and what should be done about it rather extreme. I am sure that their protests were about raising awareness and debate, not about literally converting those individuals. Of course, when a group is oppressed, they might think something is bad, but be too afraid to speak out or act on that. It could be enough to see others also think it is bad.

Yes I suppose you are a pretty militant Atheist :P

The troubling aspect of the protests though is not the general idea behind it. I mean, the idea that religions are patriarchies is pretty much a given. The thing that bugs me about the way FEMEN stages its protest and the way it brings the message across is like religious women need 'saving'. Preferably by topless catwalk models. I don't think religious people need saving because I don't believe religious people are idiots who can't think for themselves. And if we are talking about say Muslim women, well they don't need a bunch of white, blonde European topless women to save them from their burqa's. Muslim women are just as capable of organizing themselves and fighting the patriarchy in a way that suits their own cultural background just fine.

In general I'm not a fan of groups that go around telling other people that they are 'oppressed' because they happen to be religious. Thats defining people in an extremely narrow manner, and it completely ignores what people think of their own situation. And telling someone who doesn't feel oppressed at all that they are oppressed is probably not the best way to get them on your side.

Personally I don't agree with harming people for a cause, however, every time you make this claim of feminists being extreme (and how many feminists have actually planted bombs compared to how many male led organisations? I suspect the numbers are actually insignificant in comparison.) I get a flash of all the horrible things that have been done just in the west to women I know in the last century and wonder why women are being so damn nice about it.

My argument was that the suffragettes had an extreme side to them, nothing more. And one wrong doesn't justify or excuse more wrongs. Hate cannot beat hate. Maybe women understand this better than men. I sure hope so.

The current porn industry is male dominated and has a very extreme view on human sexuality that is damaging and unrealistic. There is nothing that feminists have done that can even begin to top the extremity of the current porn industry. Is it any wonder that some feminists violently recoil from it and get a distorted and frightening view of male sexuality? I am glad that I did not learn about men from watching porn. I would probably have joined a nunnery. I try to warn my own male children that watching porn will given them a false view of male-female relationships, but porn is so pervasive I have little hope of them being able to avoid it until they are grown human beings with a healthy respect for women.

I have to disagree. The current porn industry is geared towards the 'male gaze' aka what turns men on. At the same time, the porn industry generally pays female models a lot better compared to male models, while it dehumanizes both for entertainment. Is that healthy? I would argue its neither healthy or unhealthy, as long as everyone involved has consented to it.

Porn is entertainment. Its not meant to give a realistic image of human sexuality, the same way that action movies aren't meant to give a realistic image of violence. They are both products of entertainment, and as long as the people who watch it know that its entertainment and not in any way realistic, its not nearly as harmful as some people claim.

The current porn industry is far from perfect. The fact that they focus on the 'male gaze' proves this. It could definitely use some diversification and cater to more types of audiences, rather than more types of fetishes. But I rather see that they improve this, rather than have the whole thing banned.

One of the foundations of logic is having all the facts so that you can draw a logical conclusions. The best way to learn about the facts of the female existence is to listen to women with out judgement and believe that our experience is real and valid. You cannot learn about it from just your own experience of the world. How can you competently criticise something when you don't know much about it?

Well, not all the arguments feminists make solely concern the female experience in this world. And while I do my best to listen and learn what the female experience is, it is not always relevant to every argument, or every component of an argument.

Also, I would say that if I were to criticize an argument you made without properly accounting for your experience as a woman when this is especially relevant to your argument, my criticisms have a big weakness. I would expect you to use that weakness to expose the flaws in the criticism I made. Isn't that how discussions ideally go?
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Message 1670726 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 14:12:52 UTC
Last modified: 27 Apr 2015, 14:17:21 UTC

Is it not curious that we need to have such as FEMEN and other 'suffragettes' to make a noise to make any positive changes for women?

Similarly so elsewhere in the world just merely to allow girls to be educated without the cultural and religious and Taliban and Boko Haram intimidation and death to keep them dumbed down to ignorant home slaves...?


Here on this thread, we really do seem to have the blind old grumpy group of the three "C"s forever lost in the deliberately crass stereotypes of oversized woman's breasts and bums of some sort of Benny Hill comedy world, but for real!

Unfortunately, there is still a rather unhealthy and seedy gossip portrayal of female models and celebs in some of the UK newspapers such as the Mirror and others. For those, there is more 'news' of unclad women than coverage for the rest of the world...

Note how there is no similar treatment for males?... Really only males buy such papers? Or is it that the papers are too hostile/trivilised towards women for women to buy them?...


And then you get such jaundiced marketing as this example in the local press:

East Sussex woman sparks internet storm over bikini-clad 'beach ready' model

... Every body is a beach body, no matter what shape or size! Meal replacement pills cannot be masked as a healthy lifestyle.

“Protein World is directly targeting individuals, aiming to make them feel physically inferior to the unrealistic body image of the bronzed model, in order to sell their product...




Perhaps we need to have a few naked posters of Arne or Brad Pitt or Beckham for a bit of balance to bully the beer-belly pub slobs into an angst guilt ridden anxious new life imposed by the ever changing manipulating Marketing psychology into a quivering jelly of psychosis?...


Unfortunately, with the badly sexist dumbed-down message pushed by advertising and certain newspapers, who could ever believe that women are so much more than what is stereotyped by the main media? And the subsequent mal-influence on our culture?

We've a long way to go yet for cultural equality between the sexes. Some of the newspapers and the associated advertising badly don't help for a healthy balanced society.

Hopefully better education to give better confidence to ignore silly crassly stereotyped Marketing may help... But...


(Regarding self confidence, for what I've seen for my area in IT, the Marketing for that leaves far too many cold and scared of technology. Suspiciously deliberately so to scare/coerce people into expensive support... More widely, that sort of thing gets nasty when it is individuals that are being negatively targeted/Marketed at...)


All in our only one world,
Martin
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The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
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Message 1670853 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 20:44:14 UTC - in response to Message 1669719.  

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