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Message 1652697 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 0:54:24 UTC - in response to Message 1652695.  


Your misrepresentation never stops.

NOTE: These In-laws are White.

This has NOTHING to do with Ferguson. As you know: YOUR accusation was regarding their initial reaction with one of my daughters marrying a Black Man. They are the parents of my wife.

Why do you continue to deny Your Reply regarding this?

You know what, Clyde. I have no fecking idea what you are talking about. If you wanted to mystify me with the inner workings of you mind, you succeeded.
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Message 1652911 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 17:42:43 UTC

The Political Roots of Racial Tracking in American Criminal Justice

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1652917 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 18:00:02 UTC - in response to Message 1652911.  

The Political Roots of Racial Tracking in American Criminal Justice

Yep

That doesn't sound like a book you'd like.
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Message 1652935 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 18:56:01 UTC

That doesn't sound like a book you'd like.


Caught Last Hour of Talk on TV. Here 'is' Full Vid of Talk:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?324425-1/book-discussion-political-roots-racial-tracking-american-criminal-justice

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1652946 - Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 19:07:59 UTC - in response to Message 1652935.  

That doesn't sound like a book you'd like.


Caught Last Hour of Talk on TV. Here 'is' Full Vid of Talk:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?324425-1/book-discussion-political-roots-racial-tracking-american-criminal-justice

Yep

I'll take a look at when I get the time.
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Message 1653225 - Posted: 15 Mar 2015, 16:05:56 UTC

The White Conversation on Race
and

International Journal of Critical Pedagogy, Vol 3 (3) (2011) pp 54-70
©2011 International Journal of Critical Pedagogy
White Fragility



White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress be comes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium. This paper explicates the dynamics of White Fragility.


These articles might provide an insight into why people get very defensive when racist assumptions they make are called out. If any white people here feel they are being attacked or insulted when certain behaviours they exhibit are interpreted as racist, they might find these articles useful.

It would be nice to diffuse some of this anxiety so we can have a genuine discussion about the things that we as white people do to perpetuate racism.
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Message 1653242 - Posted: 15 Mar 2015, 17:05:21 UTC

When A Certain Race, STOPS Parking, Walking, and Congregating IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREETS, Only Then, will there be a 'Discussion'.

'It' 'is' Up To Them, NOT US.

Until 'Then' I'll Stay Fragile.

Now, there 'is' a certain song from The '70s by BTO I'll Not Listen to.

Yep.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1660047 - Posted: 1 Apr 2015, 1:56:35 UTC

Blackie On Train is SL MO, asks Whitey Minding Own Business a Racially Charged Question.

Whitey Answers noncommittally. Before Getting off Train, Two Blackies Punch and Kick Whitey.

Result: World of Whitey Basically Quiet. Two Offenders Arrested on Minor Charges.

Change The Colors Around, and World of Blackie would Be Rantin' Ravin' 24/7 on Lame Stream Media Pronouncing Racial Crimes of All Sorts.


Yep.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1661761 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 16:04:17 UTC

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Message 1661767 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 16:22:45 UTC - in response to Message 1661761.  

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Message 1661775 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 17:12:33 UTC

What Is Internalized Racism?
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Message 1661818 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 20:14:53 UTC - in response to Message 1661775.  

What Is Internalized Racism?


Hmm...


Nadra Kareem Nittle raises some good points in her articles on racism on that website. I somewhat agree with her statements on members of minority racial groups trying to change their appearance to more closely conform to the appearance of the majority racial group, for example the various 'skin lightener' preparations on the market.

But I do have a few issues with a few points she makes.


http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/WhatIsRacism.htm

Can Minorities Be Racist?

Yes, of course. However, it’s important to note that because racial minorities in the U. S. have spent their lifetimes in a society that has traditionally valued whites over them, they are also likely to believe in the superiority of whites. It’s also worth noting that in response to living in a racially stratified society, people of color sometimes complain about whites. Typically, such complaints serve as coping mechanisms to withstand racism rather than as anti-white bias. Even when minorities are actually prejudiced against whites, they lack the institutional power to adversely affect whites’ lives.


Is that ALWAYS the case?

I recall a number of years ago, a Black man was leading a protest outside of a TV station in Dallas, Texas. He was protesting the TV station's lack of more black-oriented programming.

A white woman tried to drive down the street nearby. The man and part of the mob of protesters blocked the street, trapping the woman, because she was white. The man then approached the vehicle, screaming and yelling. The woman then began to fear for her safety. The man then damaged her vehicle, ripping the windshield wipers off of it.

Is this incident racist? Is it excused because of a lack of institutional power on the part of the black man?

Well, the black man was a government official. Dallas County Commissioner (District 3) John Wiley Price.

...lack the institutional power... Pull the other one. Price was convicted of misdemeanor criminal mischief in this incident and served 75 days in jail.

And this is NOT the only incident of violence against white people he has committed, nor is it the only one he has been convicted of doing. He may be combating racism against blacks, and has done some good in this, but he is definitely racist towards whites.



What about horizontal racism? When this occurs, members of minority groups adopt racist attitudes towards other minority groups. An example of this would be if a Japanese American prejudged a Mexican American based on the racist stereotypes of Latinos found in mainstream culture.


I recall some incidents, again a number of years ago in Dallas, Texas of racial strife between the black and the Hispanic communities, particularly involving the Dallas Independent School District elections.

Now, you may argue that both the black and the Hispanic communities learned their evil racist feelings towards each other from the whites (horizontal racism), you would be incorrect in this. It wasn't horizontal racism, it was about their own political power. The black community in Dallas was for a time the majority. The Hispanic community, however, eclipsed them due to growth, becoming the majority. There was a LOT of racial strife between the two communities, including numerous instances of racial violence... ESPECIALLY around the Dallas Independent School District elections.

At one time, the majority of students in Dallas ISD were black. Now, Dallas ISD students are:
30% black, 64% Hispanic, and 5% white. Times have changed.

It seems there is a movement on to blame ALL racism on whites. That is wrong.

Whites do Not have a monopoly on racism. Racism is NOT a White problem. Racism is a HUMAN problem.
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Message 1661827 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 20:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 1661818.  

What Is Internalized Racism?


Hmm...


Nadra Kareem Nittle raises some good points in her articles on racism on that website. I somewhat agree with her statements on members of minority racial groups trying to change their appearance to more closely conform to the appearance of the majority racial group, for example the various 'skin lightener' preparations on the market.

But I do have a few issues with a few points she makes.


http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/WhatIsRacism.htm

Can Minorities Be Racist?

Yes, of course. However, it’s important to note that because racial minorities in the U. S. have spent their lifetimes in a society that has traditionally valued whites over them, they are also likely to believe in the superiority of whites. It’s also worth noting that in response to living in a racially stratified society, people of color sometimes complain about whites. Typically, such complaints serve as coping mechanisms to withstand racism rather than as anti-white bias. Even when minorities are actually prejudiced against whites, they lack the institutional power to adversely affect whites’ lives.


Is that ALWAYS the case?

I recall a number of years ago, a Black man was leading a protest outside of a TV station in Dallas, Texas. He was protesting the TV station's lack of more black-oriented programming.

A white woman tried to drive down the street nearby. The man and part of the mob of protesters blocked the street, trapping the woman, because she was white. The man then approached the vehicle, screaming and yelling. The woman then began to fear for her safety. The man then damaged her vehicle, ripping the windshield wipers off of it.

Is this incident racist? Is it excused because of a lack of institutional power on the part of the black man?

Well, the black man was a government official. Dallas County Commissioner (District 3) John Wiley Price.

...lack the institutional power... Pull the other one. Price was convicted of misdemeanor criminal mischief in this incident and served 75 days in jail.

And this is NOT the only incident of violence against white people he has committed, nor is it the only one he has been convicted of doing. He may be combating racism against blacks, and has done some good in this, but he is definitely racist towards whites.



What about horizontal racism? When this occurs, members of minority groups adopt racist attitudes towards other minority groups. An example of this would be if a Japanese American prejudged a Mexican American based on the racist stereotypes of Latinos found in mainstream culture.


I recall some incidents, again a number of years ago in Dallas, Texas of racial strife between the black and the Hispanic communities, particularly involving the Dallas Independent School District elections.

Now, you may argue that both the black and the Hispanic communities learned their evil racist feelings towards each other from the whites (horizontal racism), you would be incorrect in this. It wasn't horizontal racism, it was about their own political power. The black community in Dallas was for a time the majority. The Hispanic community, however, eclipsed them due to growth, becoming the majority. There was a LOT of racial strife between the two communities, including numerous instances of racial violence... ESPECIALLY around the Dallas Independent School District elections.

At one time, the majority of students in Dallas ISD were black. Now, Dallas ISD students are:
30% black, 64% Hispanic, and 5% white. Times have changed.

It seems there is a movement on to blame ALL racism on whites. That is wrong.

Whites do Not have a monopoly on racism. Racism is NOT a White problem. Racism is a HUMAN problem.

I think you have hit on the key point there..political power.

Racism, at its roots, is about power and power structures.

Your example of a black man attacking a white women, well first of all, because of the genders involved you have to unpick that part too. Assuming that it wasn't partly gender related, let us look at the outcomes. Black man attacks white women and white women is backed up by the state and the legal institutions.

White man attacks black man (especially if white man is in an authority position), which one does the institution favour? Which one benefits from the power structure?
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Message 1661831 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 20:51:07 UTC - in response to Message 1661818.  

It seems there is a movement on to blame ALL racism on whites. That is wrong.
Whites do Not have a monopoly on racism. Racism is NOT a White problem. Racism is a HUMAN problem.

Indeed MajorKong.

Are there Racism in the Middle East?
Of course. I have talked with my GF who lived there a couple of years.
I have heard a woman from Palestina, a politican now working with female rights, saying the same. She now lives in Tensta, Stocholm and once I met her standing in the queue to an ATM:)

I Think about 5 % of the World population are thinking this racist BS...
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Message 1661834 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 20:58:48 UTC - in response to Message 1661831.  

It seems there is a movement on to blame ALL racism on whites. That is wrong.
Whites do Not have a monopoly on racism. Racism is NOT a White problem. Racism is a HUMAN problem.

Indeed MajorKong.

Are there Racism in the Middle East?
Of course. I have talked with my GF who lived there a couple of years.
I have heard a woman from Palestina, a politican now working with female rights, saying the same. She now lives in Tensta, Stocholm and once I met her standing in the queue to an ATM:)

I Think about 5 % of the World population are thinking this racist BS...

Racism in all countries that have suffered under white european imperialism is a white problem. I am quite sure if it had been native americans who had conquered all of Europe and committed genocide while enslaving white people to grow their food and cotton then we would be talking quite rightly about racism being a native american problem. However, that is not what happened, so when it comes to the Western world where we live, racism is most absolutely a white problem.
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Message 1661835 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 21:00:27 UTC - in response to Message 1661827.  


I think you have hit on the key point there..political power.

Racism, at its roots, is about power and power structures.

Your example of a black man attacking a white women, well first of all, because of the genders involved you have to unpick that part too. Assuming that it wasn't partly gender related, let us look at the outcomes. Black man attacks white women and white women is backed up by the state and the legal institutions.

White man attacks black man (especially if white man is in an authority position), which one does the institution favour? Which one benefits from the power structure?


Yes, but when said black man IS PART OF said 'state and legal institutions'...

I am NOT saying that whites can not be racist.

I AM saying that blacks (and other 'minorities') CAN be racists.

Racism is WRONG no matter who does it. Sorry, equal means equal, no matter if it is about who gets what seat on the bus or equal protection under the law. Blacks and other 'minorities' do NOT get a free pass.
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Message 1661837 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 21:19:42 UTC - in response to Message 1661834.  
Last modified: 5 Apr 2015, 21:30:28 UTC

Racism in all countries that have suffered under white european imperialism is a white problem. I am quite sure if it had been native americans who had conquered all of Europe and committed genocide while enslaving white people to grow their food and cotton then we would be talking quite rightly about racism being a native american problem. However, that is not what happened, so when it comes to the Western world where we live, racism is most absolutely a white problem.

White european imperialism? Are you a racist?
But if we go back to the present.
Please give some example of white european imperialism today.

Internalized Racism
Just what is internalized racism? One might describe it as a fancy term for a problem that’s pretty easy to grasp. In a society where racial prejudice thrives in politics, communities, institutions and popular culture, it’s difficult for racial minorities to avoid absorbing the racist messages that constantly bombard them. Thus, even people of color sometimes adopt a white supremacist mindset that results in self-hatred and hatred of their respective racial group. Minorities suffering from internalized racism, for example, may loathe the physical characteristics that make them racially distinct such as skin color, hair texture or eye shape. Others may stereotype those from their racial group and refuse to associate with them. And some may outright identify as white. Overall, minorities suffering from internalized racism buy into the notion that whites are superior to people of color. Think of it as Stockholm Syndrome in the racial sphere.

Internalized Racism and Beauty
To live up to Western beauty standards, ethnic minorities suffering from internalized racism may attempt to alter their appearance to look more “white.” For those of Asian descent, this could mean opting to have double eyelid surgery. For those of Jewish descent, this could mean having rhinoplasty. For African-Americans, this could mean chemically straightening one’s hair and weaving in extensions. In addition, people of color from a variety of backgrounds use bleaching creams to lighten their skin.
.It’s important to note, however, that not all people of color who alter their physical appearance do so to look “whiter.” For example, many black women say they straighten their hair to make it more manageable and not because they’re ashamed of their heritage. Some people turn to bleaching creams to even out their skin tone and not because they’re trying to uniformly lighten their skin.

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Message 1661839 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 21:41:18 UTC - in response to Message 1661835.  


I think you have hit on the key point there..political power.

Racism, at its roots, is about power and power structures.

Your example of a black man attacking a white women, well first of all, because of the genders involved you have to unpick that part too. Assuming that it wasn't partly gender related, let us look at the outcomes. Black man attacks white women and white women is backed up by the state and the legal institutions.

White man attacks black man (especially if white man is in an authority position), which one does the institution favour? Which one benefits from the power structure?


Yes, but when said black man IS PART OF said 'state and legal institutions'...

They often are the victims of racism from their peers.

I am NOT saying that whites can not be racist.

I AM saying that blacks (and other 'minorities') CAN be racists.

I'm saying that actual racism is dependent of power structures. I am aware that this a concept that many people disagree with and difficult one to grasp, but as a female it actually makes perfect sense to me when I apply the same reasoning to my ability to negatively effect men if I were sexist.

Racism is about punching down. A black person hating a white person is punching up, and considering the treatment of black people by the white people with the power, is hatred of white people by black people unjustified in the same way hatred of black people by white people is?

Racism is WRONG no matter who does it. Sorry, equal means equal, no matter if it is about who gets what seat on the bus or equal protection under the law. Blacks and other 'minorities' do NOT get a free pass.

If minorities were getting a free pass on anything you'd have a point. The reality is they don't. The group that does get a free pass is white people. As a white person I am well aware of the small but significant way this impacts my life for the better every day.
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Message 1661845 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 22:08:43 UTC - in response to Message 1661834.  

Racism in all countries that have suffered under white european imperialism is a white problem. I am quite sure if it had been native americans who had conquered all of Europe and committed genocide while enslaving white people to grow their food and cotton then we would be talking quite rightly about racism being a native american problem. However, that is not what happened, so when it comes to the Western world where we live, racism is most absolutely a white problem.

Interesting. Hispanics in the USA are mostly majority Native American blood and minority Spanish blood. You may have unintentionally picked a very interesting example. As MajorKong points out there is no love loss between the Hispanic population and the African American population.

As a very unscientific aside, of the Hispanics I know well enough to judge their racism, I judge it to be two times stronger than the whites I know equally well on average. Why? Perhaps because the Hispanic's come from a different culture with their own issues and did not hear or understand Dr. King's message.

As to preferential treatment, as opposed to equal treatment, that very easily will bread resentments, which by their nature will self perpetuate the very thing the preferences are designed to address. A vicious cycle.
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Message 1661854 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015, 22:50:28 UTC
Last modified: 5 Apr 2015, 22:50:54 UTC

Strange. Don't the US know its own history?
Have anyone there met a Native American?

I have but that maybe doesnt count because they are from South America.
One is of course Fernando From Bolivia who I worked with for many years.
He came to Europe first to Bulgaria or Russia, I don't remember, but sooner to Sweden.
An other was from Chile and he told me is was a real Indian.
I asked him. "How do you know?"
He says "I feel it"
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