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Message 1623244 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 18:21:29 UTC - in response to Message 1623073.  


There are two things that I can see, which is that firstly most people as you would expect are loyal to the the country they were born or have mainly lived in. Secondly all countries are different and have different laws and ways of doing things, so it is very hard to compare like for like. But intolerance and racism from white people towards black people seems commonplace at least in the Western world. We have discussed here some reasons for it, which are different from country to country, but not yet come up with a solution to deal with it.

Indeed, racism against black people is different from some of the Nationalism displayed here.

People have very good reasons for not liking America the country...however, most Americans I have met have been lovely people.

Racism against black people in America is a legacy of the slave trade.

In the UK, a large amount of black people were enticed over from Jamaica in the 1950s to fill the jobs that the white people didn't want to do.
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Message 1623275 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 20:09:42 UTC - in response to Message 1623001.  

maybe the Canadians should use it as a logo for the oil tar sands , come on America use more of our oil :)


Glenn, buddy, Gooba can get away with this......

Have we offended you?



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Message 1623306 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 21:07:50 UTC - in response to Message 1623254.  

that White people just don't like black people, which is the rest of it.

I don't think that was the take away message. The evidence shows that people are afraid of "difference" or things that they are not used to.

If groups of people are segregated then that difference is exacerbated. In Northern Ireland there was a strong movement to have integrated schools to help stop the cycle of hatred between the protestants and catholics. It is hard to remain afraid of something that you know a lot about and are familiar with.

As long as people see one group of people as "the other" or "the outsider" then you will get racism. White European culture is considered the norm and the default "correct" culture. Therefore any group outside that culture becomes "the other". So what is needed is integration, understanding and familiarity (this is not the same as assimilation).
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Message 1623346 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 22:41:16 UTC

Chris S said:
...their red-neck attitude


Why All The Super Long Posts by Everyone. The Quote Above Seez 'it' ALL.

I'm Assuming by Red Neck, you mean The Ns, Ws, Hs and All The Rest Comprising The U S A.

Yep

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Message 1623354 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:17:53 UTC

By contrast, when O. J. Simpson, a black, murdered 2 whites some years ago and

the predominantly black jury acquitted him, many white folks were intensely

shocked about the verdict but respected the judiciary due process anyway, with

the understanding that "an individual is assumed to be innocent until proven

guilty" in the American legal system, which was set up with the purpose to

minimize the possibility of convicting innocent individuals (that is, to

promote the freedom from "wrongful persecution").

yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1623356 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:22:49 UTC

??? I just finished to read article Gary posted... just to found there is no such article in this thread.

Perhaps no reason to post it in full as post, link would be enough, but IMHO quite interesting point of view worth to read at least. One may not agree with all assertions made but where it is gone?
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Message 1623357 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:24:20 UTC - in response to Message 1623354.  

By contrast, when O. J. Simpson, a black, murdered 2 whites some years ago and

the predominantly black jury acquitted him, many white folks were intensely

shocked about the verdict but respected the judiciary due process anyway, with

the understanding that "an individual is assumed to be innocent until proven

guilty" in the American legal system, which was set up with the purpose to

minimize the possibility of convicting innocent individuals (that is, to

promote the freedom from "wrongful persecution").

yep


"I love being famous. It's almost like being white." - Chris Rock.

As to the deleted post. It contained a strong profanity. If Gary wants to fix that, he can repost it.
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Message 1623360 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:30:37 UTC - in response to Message 1623357.  
Last modified: 4 Jan 2015, 23:33:32 UTC

It contained a strong profanity.


Hm.
Well, Cause I consider that article as worth to read I would post the link for anyone to read or not read w/o being accusing to pollute forums with non-allowed words.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/02-01-2015/129423-black_white_america-0/

Part regarding creationism though offtopic in this thread I agree with fully :) Other parts are for discussion by "natives".

EDIT: BTW, I was not able to find that article in Russian, so different contents for different languages there, at least in parts.
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Message 1623362 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:35:24 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jan 2015, 23:44:44 UTC

I FIXED 'IT'. PROFANITY REMOVED.

Now Read and Be Amazed at The TRUTH.

Black anger and white frustration By Peter Baofu, Ph.D.

Black anger and white frustration By Peter Baofu, Ph.D.

The shootings to death of 3 blacks in 3 separate incidents involving white police officers in America in recent months - and the killings of 3 police officers by black attackers in 2 separate incidents (in New York and Florida) afterwards (in apparent retaliation) reveal an uncomfortable truth which is not discussed in the American mainstream media. And this uncomfortable truth is that the American credo of "All men are created equal" is ideologically false, as it is not a "self-evident truth" at all but propounds a form of what I call "heterophobia," that is, the fear of recognizing the biological differences on the basis of race (and, for that matter, of gender, ethnicity, and the like).

As long as America refuses to confront this uncomfortable truth, the racial tension between whites and blacks will continue for decades to come, regardless of what the outcomes of the pending civil and criminal cases about the incidents will turn out to be. In the end, what is at stake here concerns the future of democracy in America and the world at large.

(1) TWO FALSE ASSUMPTIONS IN THE AMERICAN CREDO
The American credo in the U.S. Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies, that is, "We hold...[this] truth...to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," is based on 2 false assumptions which the Founding Fathers dogmatically made at the time (in the 18th century).

The first false assumption is that all men are "created," because the Founding Fathers believed in Creation Theory. As I already explained in THE FUTURE OF CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY (2002), the credo of "All men are created equal" as used by Thomas Jefferson fits well in his religious worldview with the Unitarian movement of the time, "in recognizing Jesus as a moral teacher and a religious reformer,...As he himself once said, '[t]here is not a young man now living in the U.S. who will not die a Unitarian.' And so much religious was his life outlook that he spent the pastime in his older days to collect passages from different Christian texts into a collection now published as THE JEFFERSON BIBLE....Mark Noll, an evangelical historian at Wheaton College in Illinois, noted that Jefferson 'studied Scripture every day during the last 50 years of his life.'"

The problem here is that the Creationists accept Creation Theory as a matter of religious faith, but both the atheists and the critics regard Creation Theory as a product of outdated superstition. The debate between Creation Theory and Evolutionary Theory, for example, has continued unto this day.

And the second false assumption is that all men are "equal" on the basis of "natural law" in the Social Contract tradition, which was popular at the time of the Founding Fathers, who admired the writings on social contract by John Locke, John S. Mill, and others, for instance.
The problem here is that the Founding Fathers invoked the myth of equality in the Social Contract tradition "only in order to justify independence for the colonists in light of their being maltreated by the British Crown, but not to abolish slavery, since the very idea of equality was not intended to apply to non-whites (especially blacks)." (P. Baofu 2002) After all, Jefferson, like many of the Founding Fathers, were themselves slave owners. And more importantly, the very idea of "natural law" in social contract theories is essentially problematic, because it ultimately derives from "divine law," as natural laws are "ordinances" expressing "God's will," according to Locke.
Not only the atheists reject "divine law" as superstitious, but also the critics have since offered different alternative (often competing and conflicting) approaches to political thought, and they are as diverse as Marxism, Nietzscheanism, third-world nationalism, orientalism, neo-Confucianism, post-modernism, and many others. And the contemporary debate on "the clash of civilizations" constitutes a latest chapter of this recurrent schism in the modern history of political thought.

(2) BLACK ANGER, AND THE OBSESSION WITH SOCIO-CULTURAL EXCUSES
Yet, in historical retrospect, the American credo has given great solace to the Civil Rights Movement, in spite of its false assumptions, and no one has elevated "this dogmatic thought to its utmost metaphysical height higher than Martin Luther King himself, who said in one of his most well-known speeches: 'If we are wrong [in regard to this self-evident truth], then the Almighty God is wrong.'" (P. Baofu 2002) But the uncomfortable truth here is that "the Almighty God is wrong," very wrong indeed.

Since then, many blacks have followed King's dogmatic faith and have developed the indulgent habit of mind to blame their multifaceted problems in America on racial prejudice and discrimination by white folks. Surely, there is racism by whites against minorities in America, but "blaming" is a double-edged sword, as it also blinds oneself from seeing the other side of the same mirror, since it ends up distracting one's attention from the real issues, for 3 reasons (to be explained below).

The first reason is that many blacks try to use racial politics to interfere into the judiciary due process, which constitutes a serious violation of "judiciary independence" long cherished in the American legal system (under the "separation of powers" doctrine), as the grand juries in all three cases had already carefully examined the evidences presented and rejected the public allegations (mostly by black folks) against the white police officers in the 3 incidents as unfounded. There is a grave danger of "wrongful persecution" in racial politics here. If this political interference were to occur in Russia, China, or Venezuela, it would immediately be condemned as "wrongful persecution" (as a form of "judiciary corruption").

By contrast, when O. J. Simpson, a black, murdered 2 whites some years ago and the predominantly black jury acquitted him, many white folks were intensely shocked about the verdict but respected the judiciary due process anyway, with the understanding that "an individual is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty" in the American legal system, which was set up with the purpose to minimize the possibility of convicting innocent individuals (that is, to promote the freedom from "wrongful persecution").

In the current crisis, many blacks already assume the white police officers to be "guilty" even before they are proven to be so in court and assume them to be "guilty" again even after the grand juries had carefully reviewed the evidences and dismissed the cases. Of course, the American legal system is not perfect (because it does not absolutely guarantee that a guilty individual will not be found innocent instead, as shown in the case concerning the acquittal of O. J. Simpson for the murder of 2 white folks some years ago). But the American legal system values the freedom from "wrongful persecution" enough that it is willing to accept the risk of setting a guilty individual free.

In light of this spirit, what many black protesters are doing in the current crisis is as much "anti-democratic" as "un-American," because they are advocating what many "authoritarian" regimes have been accused of doing, namely, to assume "an individual to be guilty until proven innocent" even before the completion of any judiciary due process and to still insist the three police officers to be "guilty" again, even after the grand juries examined the evidences and rejected the public allegations (mostly by black folks) against the white police officers as unfounded.

In addition, the mindset of many black protesters is quite "racist," as a form of what I called in my previous publications "reverse-racism," as they demonize white police officers as necessarily "bad," "brutal," "prejudiced," "violent," etc. and glorifying black suspects as necessarily "good," "heroic," "law-abiding," "do-nothing-wrong," "innocent," "victimized," etc. I already addressed in detail this new phenomenon of "reverse-racism" (as part of "reverse discrimination") in BEYOND DEMOCRACY TO POST-DEMOCRACY (2004) and THE FUTURE OF CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY (2002).

In the end, the grave danger of "wrongful persecution" under the intense pressure of racial politics by black protesters cannot be ignored, because America is no stranger to innocent victims of this type in its tumultuous past, and two good examples are the "red hunt" for "Communists" during the notorious period of McCarthyism in the 1950s and the "witch hunt" in the older days (like the infamous "Salem witch trials"). And now, the grave danger here is the "hunt" for "racist white police officers" under the banner of the Civil Rights Movement by black protesters, who are building up the political pressure on the U.S. Department of Justice (under the leadership of a black Attorney General) to intentionally force through some legal cases against the white officers in question (together with some civil cases being filed in civil courts), even after the grand juries had already carefully examined the evidences and found them not credible. America is dangerously entering a potentially dark period of the "police hunt," just as there were the "red hunt" in the 1950s and the "witch hunt" in the older days.

The second reason is that many blacks in America can empower themselves in an alternative (but more effective) way by learning something from Asian Americans, who are often regarded as the "model minority" in the United States. Blacks are not the only group suffering from racist prejudice and discrimination by whites in America. Many Asian Americans, after all, are often maltreated, as reflected in the all so common humiliating slang like "------- gooks" often directed against them, not just by whites but also by blacks themselves. Yet, many Asian Americans have been able to climb up the social ladder of success in business and in education, for instance, in spite of all their often untold sufferings.

In fact, Asian Americans are known as "super-achievers," as many Asians enviably have higher scores than whites in different tests (e.g., SAT, ACT, GRE, etc.), often graduate at the top of their classes, have won time and again science and math competitions, and excel in setting up new businesses, among other things. In America, if you go to university libraries, you will likely see Asian students studying hard until late hours, but you will hardly see many black American students doing the same. However, if you go to the gyms, you will likely see plenty of black folks playing basketball, doing weight-lifting, or something else physical. Or if you happen to pass by red districts (and dark alleys) in late hours, you will likely see black folks (especially black men) hanging around for dubious activities. Surely, there are exceptions in all of these cases (to be explained by circumstantial reasons), but exceptions are not the rule.

And the third reason is that the "black" problem is not solely socio-cultural in America (as many black folks are quick to blame white racism with those handy excuses) but is universal in black communities around the world, be they in the Caribbean islands, sub-Saharan black Africa, or Latin America. In many of these black communities, one often sees poverty and underdevelopment, and the symptoms are numerous enough (e.g., riots, civil wars, genocides, corruption, epidemics, famines, coups, brutality, crimes, etc.). Of course, these symptoms vary from one country to another (with some countries having more and others having less or nothing at all) -- and there are also improvements over time, but the gap between black communities and the rest of the world persists.

For instance, in Zimbabwe (in southern Africa), the government under Robert Mugabe began the forceful redistribution of farmland owned by whites (in his "anti-colonial," "anti-white" drive), and yet the country has fallen deeper and deeper into poverty after all these decades. In Haiti (in the Caribbean islands), the country has remained poor and underdeveloped after more than 200 years of independence from its former colonial master, France. And in spite of hundreds of billions of dollars from the United Nations and other aid donors given to black communities in all these decades, they remain poor and underdeveloped, when contrasted with other regions in the world. In fact, the current Ebola epidemic in Western Africa (again, with generous aids from the United Nations and donors like China, the U.S., and the E.U.) is a latest chapter of this chronic helplessness in black communities around the world.

By contrast, in both Hong Kong and Singapore, which were former British colonies, the predominantly ethnic Chinese folks there, in spite of the lack of natural resources, have been able to develop themselves to the point that their current levels of income per capita are much higher than what the British in the U.K. are enjoying, because the ethnic Chinese did not play the game of blaming the "white" folks for their own problems and instead had worked very hard and used their talents to better themselves in the last few decades.

So, how much longer can many black folks continue to blame their multifaceted problems on whites (like the "racist" white police officers in the current example) in America? Blaming others for one's problems is so easy to do, but solving one's problems once and for all is so much harder.
To be continued
Peter Baofu
_____________________
Dr. Peter Baofu is the author of 77 books and 79 new theories, all of which provide a visionary challenge to conventional wisdom in the social sciences, the formal sciences, the natural sciences, and the humanities, with the aim for a "unified theory of everything" -- together with numerous visions of the mind, nature, society, and culture in future history. For more info about his visions on the future of global affairs, see some of his 77 books, such as "The Future of Post-Human War and Peace" (2010), "Beyond the World of Titans, and the Remaking of World Order" (2007), "The Future of Post-Human Sports" (2013), "Beyond Nature and Nurture" (2006), "Beyond Civilization to Post-Civilization" (2006), "Beyond Capitalism to Post-Capitalism" (2005), "Beyond Democracy to Post-Democracy" (2004), "The Future of Capitalism and Democracy" (2002), the 2 volumes of "The Future of Human Civilization" (2000), and so on.
Дмитрий Судаков
Copyright © 1999-2015, «PRAVDA.Ru». When reproducing our materials in whole or in part, hyperlink to PRAVDA.Ru should be made. The opinions and views of the authors do not always coincide with the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.

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Message 1623364 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:39:49 UTC - in response to Message 1623360.  

It contained a strong profanity.


Hm.
Well, Cause I consider that article as worth to read I would post the link for anyone to read or not read w/o being accusing to pollute forums with non-allowed words.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/02-01-2015/129423-black_white_america-0/

Part regarding creationism though offtopic in this thread I agree with fully :) Other parts are for discussion by "natives".

Yes, its a hateful little article full of hidden "white superiority", and I am glad to have an opportunity to point that out. Thank you.

Perhaps all those examples cited as to why black people are "naturally inferior" (ick) could be looked at in this context:

Jon Stewart Learns That Black Slavery In America Never Really Ended. an interview from The Daily Show.

You see, America really never did deal with the horror of slavery. The other examples of imperialism in the book also follow the same theme. If you take everything away from a group of people (land, money, language, inherited knowledge, education) its awfully hard for them to suddenly be able to pick themselves up and be just the same as their former oppressors. In America that actual very real oppression is still in the life time of a lot of black people. So how many generations do you think it will be until they can "be as good as white people" especially as white people are so grudging about sharing the wealth they gained from centuries of slavery.
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Message 1623368 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:47:11 UTC - in response to Message 1623364.  
Last modified: 4 Jan 2015, 23:48:19 UTC


Yes, its a hateful little article full of hidden "white superiority",

After reading I would rather say "asian superiority" if any superiority involved at all. All examples for superiority are given for Chinese peoples :) Well, it's really amazing what China did last decades, indeed. I remember times when "made in china" was equal to "made for trash can". Now... well, almost ALL made in China, and quality is very good most of time. Don't see white superiority there, Chinese not quite "white", they are third, different race.
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Message 1623369 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:49:13 UTC

Es99 said:
Yes, its a hateful little article full of hidden "white superiority", and I am glad to have an opportunity to point that out. Thank you.


Hardly. No Hate Spewed At All.

Reasonable and Truthful. States 'it' Perfectly.

While The99One leads The Obfuscation/Agenda Brigade, Read The Article and See What She 'is' Afraid We Will Learn.

Yep.

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Message 1623372 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:56:08 UTC

(hope I hid all the objectionable words this time)

Now for a Russian opinion:
Peter Baofu Ph.D. in http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/02-01-2015/129423-black_white_america-0/ wrote:
Black anger and white frustration

The shootings to death of 3 blacks in 3 separate incidents involving white police officers in America in recent months - and the killings of 3 police officers by black attackers in 2 separate incidents (in New York and Florida) afterwards (in apparent retaliation) reveal an uncomfortable truth which is not discussed in the American mainstream media. And this uncomfortable truth is that the American credo of "All men are created equal" is ideologically false, as it is not a "self-evident truth" at all but propounds a form of what I call "heterophobia," that is, the fear of recognizing the biological differences on the basis of race (and, for that matter, of gender, ethnicity, and the like).

As long as America refuses to confront this uncomfortable truth, the racial tension between whites and blacks will continue for decades to come, regardless of what the outcomes of the pending civil and criminal cases about the incidents will turn out to be. In the end, what is at stake here concerns the future of democracy in America and the world at large.

(1) TWO FALSE ASSUMPTIONS IN THE AMERICAN CREDO

The American credo in the U.S. Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies, that is, "We hold...[this] truth...to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," is based on 2 false assumptions which the Founding Fathers dogmatically made at the time (in the 18th century).

The first false assumption is that all men are "created," because the Founding Fathers believed in Creation Theory. As I already explained in THE FUTURE OF CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY (2002), the credo of "All men are created equal" as used by Thomas Jefferson fits well in his religious worldview with the Unitarian movement of the time, "in recognizing Jesus as a moral teacher and a religious reformer,...As he himself once said, '[t]here is not a young man now living in the U.S. who will not die a Unitarian.' And so much religious was his life outlook that he spent the pastime in his older days to collect passages from different Christian texts into a collection now published as THE JEFFERSON BIBLE....Mark Noll, an evangelical historian at Wheaton College in Illinois, noted that Jefferson 'studied Scripture every day during the last 50 years of his life.'"

The problem here is that the Creationists accept Creation Theory as a matter of religious faith, but both the atheists and the critics regard Creation Theory as a product of outdated superstition. The debate between Creation Theory and Evolutionary Theory, for example, has continued unto this day.

And the second false assumption is that all men are "equal" on the basis of "natural law" in the Social Contract tradition, which was popular at the time of the Founding Fathers, who admired the writings on social contract by John Locke, John S. Mill, and others, for instance.

The problem here is that the Founding Fathers invoked the myth of equality in the Social Contract tradition "only in order to justify independence for the colonists in light of their being maltreated by the British Crown, but not to abolish slavery, since the very idea of equality was not intended to apply to non-whites (especially blacks)." (P. Baofu 2002) After all, Jefferson, like many of the Founding Fathers, were themselves slave owners. And more importantly, the very idea of "natural law" in social contract theories is essentially problematic, because it ultimately derives from "divine law," as natural laws are "ordinances" expressing "God's will," according to Locke.

Not only the atheists reject "divine law" as superstitious, but also the critics have since offered different alternative (often competing and conflicting) approaches to political thought, and they are as diverse as Marxism, Nietzscheanism, third-world nationalism, orientalism, neo-Confucianism, post-modernism, and many others. And the contemporary debate on "the clash of civilizations" constitutes a latest chapter of this recurrent schism in the modern history of political thought.

(2) BLACK ANGER, AND THE OBSESSION WITH SOCIO-CULTURAL EXCUSES

Yet, in historical retrospect, the American credo has given great solace to the Civil Rights Movement, in spite of its false assumptions, and no one has elevated "this dogmatic thought to its utmost metaphysical height higher than Martin Luther King himself, who said in one of his most well-known speeches: 'If we are wrong [in regard to this self-evident truth], then the Almighty God is wrong.'" (P. Baofu 2002) But the uncomfortable truth here is that "the Almighty God is wrong," very wrong indeed.

Since then, many blacks have followed King's dogmatic faith and have developed the indulgent habit of mind to blame their multifaceted problems in America on racial prejudice and discrimination by white folks. Surely, there is racism by whites against minorities in America, but "blaming" is a double-edged sword, as it also blinds oneself from seeing the other side of the same mirror, since it ends up distracting one's attention from the real issues, for 3 reasons (to be explained below).

The first reason is that many blacks try to use racial politics to interfere into the judiciary due process, which constitutes a serious violation of "judiciary independence" long cherished in the American legal system (under the "separation of powers" doctrine), as the grand juries in all three cases had already carefully examined the evidences presented and rejected the public allegations (mostly by black folks) against the white police officers in the 3 incidents as unfounded. There is a grave danger of "wrongful persecution" in racial politics here. If this political interference were to occur in Russia, China, or Venezuela, it would immediately be condemned as "wrongful persecution" (as a form of "judiciary corruption").

By contrast, when O. J. Simpson, a black, murdered 2 whites some years ago and the predominantly black jury acquitted him, many white folks were intensely shocked about the verdict but respected the judiciary due process anyway, with the understanding that "an individual is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty" in the American legal system, which was set up with the purpose to minimize the possibility of convicting innocent individuals (that is, to promote the freedom from "wrongful persecution").

In the current crisis, many blacks already assume the white police officers to be "guilty" even before they are proven to be so in court and assume them to be "guilty" again even after the grand juries had carefully reviewed the evidences and dismissed the cases. Of course, the American legal system is not perfect (because it does not absolutely guarantee that a guilty individual will not be found innocent instead, as shown in the case concerning the acquittal of O. J. Simpson for the murder of 2 white folks some years ago). But the American legal system values the freedom from "wrongful persecution" enough that it is willing to accept the risk of setting a guilty individual free.

In light of this spirit, what many black protesters are doing in the current crisis is as much "anti-democratic" as "un-American," because they are advocating what many "authoritarian" regimes have been accused of doing, namely, to assume "an individual to be guilty until proven innocent" even before the completion of any judiciary due process and to still insist the three police officers to be "guilty" again, even after the grand juries examined the evidences and rejected the public allegations (mostly by black folks) against the white police officers as unfounded.

In addition, the mindset of many black protesters is quite "racist," as a form of what I called in my previous publications "reverse-racism," as they demonize white police officers as necessarily "bad," "brutal," "prejudiced," "violent," etc. and glorifying black suspects as necessarily "good," "heroic," "law-abiding," "do-nothing-wrong," "innocent," "victimized," etc. I already addressed in detail this new phenomenon of "reverse-racism" (as part of "reverse discrimination") in BEYOND DEMOCRACY TO POST-DEMOCRACY (2004) and THE FUTURE OF CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY (2002).

In the end, the grave danger of "wrongful persecution" under the intense pressure of racial politics by black protesters cannot be ignored, because America is no stranger to innocent victims of this type in its tumultuous past, and two good examples are the "red hunt" for "Communists" during the notorious period of McCarthyism in the 1950s and the "witch hunt" in the older days (like the infamous "Salem witch trials"). And now, the grave danger here is the "hunt" for "racist white police officers" under the banner of the Civil Rights Movement by black protesters, who are building up the political pressure on the U.S. Department of Justice (under the leadership of a black Attorney General) to intentionally force through some legal cases against the white officers in question (together with some civil cases being filed in civil courts), even after the grand juries had already carefully examined the evidences and found them not credible. America is dangerously entering a potentially dark period of the "police hunt," just as there were the "red hunt" in the 1950s and the "witch hunt" in the older days.

The second reason is that many blacks in America can empower themselves in an alternative (but more effective) way by learning something from Asian Americans, who are often regarded as the "model minority" in the United States. Blacks are not the only group suffering from racist prejudice and discrimination by whites in America. Many Asian Americans, after all, are often maltreated, as reflected in the all so common humiliating slang like "f****** g****" often directed against them, not just by whites but also by blacks themselves. Yet, many Asian Americans have been able to climb up the social ladder of success in business and in education, for instance, in spite of all their often untold sufferings.

In fact, Asian Americans are known as "super-achievers," as many Asians enviably have higher scores than whites in different tests (e.g., SAT, ACT, GRE, etc.), often graduate at the top of their classes, have won time and again science and math competitions, and excel in setting up new businesses, among other things. In America, if you go to university libraries, you will likely see Asian students studying hard until late hours, but you will hardly see many black American students doing the same. However, if you go to the gyms, you will likely see plenty of black folks playing basketball, doing weight-lifting, or something else physical. Or if you happen to pass by red districts (and dark alleys) in late hours, you will likely see black folks (especially black men) hanging around for dubious activities. Surely, there are exceptions in all of these cases (to be explained by circumstantial reasons), but exceptions are not the rule.

And the third reason is that the "black" problem is not solely socio-cultural in America (as many black folks are quick to blame white racism with those handy excuses) but is universal in black communities around the world, be they in the Caribbean islands, sub-Saharan black Africa, or Latin America. In many of these black communities, one often sees poverty and underdevelopment, and the symptoms are numerous enough (e.g., riots, civil wars, genocides, corruption, epidemics, famines, coups, brutality, crimes, etc.). Of course, these symptoms vary from one country to another (with some countries having more and others having less or nothing at all) -- and there are also improvements over time, but the gap between black communities and the rest of the world persists.

For instance, in Zimbabwe (in southern Africa), the government under Robert Mugabe began the forceful redistribution of farmland owned by whites (in his "anti-colonial," "anti-white" drive), and yet the country has fallen deeper and deeper into poverty after all these decades. In Haiti (in the Caribbean islands), the country has remained poor and underdeveloped after more than 200 years of independence from its former colonial master, France. And in spite of hundreds of billions of dollars from the United Nations and other aid donors given to black communities in all these decades, they remain poor and underdeveloped, when contrasted with other regions in the world. In fact, the current Ebola epidemic in Western Africa (again, with generous aids from the United Nations and donors like China, the U.S., and the E.U.) is a latest chapter of this chronic helplessness in black communities around the world.

By contrast, in both Hong Kong and Singapore, which were former British colonies, the predominantly ethnic Chinese folks there, in spite of the lack of natural resources, have been able to develop themselves to the point that their current levels of income per capita are much higher than what the British in the U.K. are enjoying, because the ethnic Chinese did not play the game of blaming the "white" folks for their own problems and instead had worked very hard and used their talents to better themselves in the last few decades.

So, how much longer can many black folks continue to blame their multifaceted problems on whites (like the "racist" white police officers in the current example) in America? Blaming others for one's problems is so easy to do, but solving one's problems once and for all is so much harder.

Copyright © 1999-2015, «PRAVDA.Ru». When reproducing our materials in whole or in part, hyperlink to PRAVDA.Ru should be made. The opinions and views of the authors do not always coincide with the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.

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Message 1623373 - Posted: 4 Jan 2015, 23:58:19 UTC - in response to Message 1623368.  


Yes, its a hateful little article full of hidden "white superiority",

After reading I would rather say "asian superiority" if any superiority involved at all. All examples for superiority are given for Chinese peoples :) Well, it's really amazing what China did last decades, indeed. I remember times when "made in china" was equal to "made for trash can". Now... well, almost ALL made in China, and quality is very good most of time. Don't see white superiority there, Chinese not quite "white", they are third, different race.



Paper Tigers:
What happens to all the Asian-American overachievers when the test-taking ends?


"The failure of Asian-Americans to become leaders in the white-collar workplace does not qualify as one of the burning social issues of our time. But it is a part of the bitter undercurrent of Asian-American life that so many Asian graduates of elite universities find that meritocracy as they have understood it comes to an abrupt end after graduation."

So simply being really smart and hard working isn't enough, is it?
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Message 1623376 - Posted: 5 Jan 2015, 0:05:33 UTC - in response to Message 1623364.  
Last modified: 5 Jan 2015, 0:16:10 UTC


You see, America really never did deal with the horror of slavery. The other examples of imperialism in the book also follow the same theme. If you take everything away from a group of people (land, money, language, inherited knowledge, education) its awfully hard for them to suddenly be able to pick themselves up and be just the same as their former oppressors. In America that actual very real oppression is still in the life time of a lot of black people. So how many generations do you think it will be until they can "be as good as white people" especially as white people are so grudging about sharing the wealth they gained from centuries of slavery.


Most probably it's the truth too. BTW, if you read that article carefully you will see that fact of absolute exclusion of black population from "being human" is reflected


The problem here is that the Founding Fathers invoked the myth of equality in the Social Contract tradition "only in order to justify independence for the colonists in light of their being maltreated by the British Crown, but not to abolish slavery, since the very idea of equality was not intended to apply to non-whites (especially blacks)." (P. Baofu 2002) After all, Jefferson, like many of the Founding Fathers, were themselves slave owners.


So, no denial of the fact that black population was highly mistreated in USA for a long, very long time.

Article about some different. About danger of over-reaction. In this particular example, the danger of over-reaction on past black population sufferings.

Can't judge regarding blacks in USA fully, but I see similar signs of over-reaction of "West" on other minorities. Yep, all deserves equal rights, but there are signs that older "minorities" now more equal than others. Such over-reaction is dangerous too.

EDIT: BTW, another example of such over-reaction is Nobel prize of Peace (!) given to Obama... For what? For Libya? For riding to WWIII?... No, just for being "first black president" it was enough...
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Message 1623501 - Posted: 5 Jan 2015, 7:41:58 UTC - in response to Message 1623364.  

A question presents itself about culture. But first a couple items and an observation.

Es99 wrote:
You see, America really never did deal with the horror of slavery. The other examples of imperialism in the book also follow the same theme. If you take everything away from a group of people (land, money, language, inherited knowledge, education) its awfully hard for them to suddenly be able to pick themselves up and be just the same as their former oppressors. In America that actual very real oppression is still in the life time of a lot of black people.

Peter Baofu Ph.D. in http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/02-01-2015/129423-black_white_america-0/ wrote:
And the third reason is that the "black" problem is not solely socio-cultural in America (as many black folks are quick to blame white racism with those handy excuses) but is universal in black communities around the world, be they in the Caribbean islands, sub-Saharan black Africa, or Latin America. In many of these black communities, one often sees poverty and underdevelopment, and the symptoms are numerous enough (e.g., riots, civil wars, genocides, corruption, epidemics, famines, coups, brutality, crimes, etc.). Of course, these symptoms vary from one country to another (with some countries having more and others having less or nothing at all) -- and there are also improvements over time, but the gap between black communities and the rest of the world persists.

For instance, in Zimbabwe (in southern Africa), the government under Robert Mugabe began the forceful redistribution of farmland owned by whites (in his "anti-colonial," "anti-white" drive), and yet the country has fallen deeper and deeper into poverty after all these decades. In Haiti (in the Caribbean islands), the country has remained poor and underdeveloped after more than 200 years of independence from its former colonial master, France. And in spite of hundreds of billions of dollars from the United Nations and other aid donors given to black communities in all these decades, they remain poor and underdeveloped, when contrasted with other regions in the world. In fact, the current Ebola epidemic in Western Africa (again, with generous aids from the United Nations and donors like China, the U.S., and the E.U.) is a latest chapter of this chronic helplessness in black communities around the world.

Some additional cultures to consider. The First Peoples in America, North and South, and the South Pacific Islanders and Aborigines in Australia. Most all of these cultures never had capitalism or profit motive as a traditional part of them, at least before the white man arrived. These cultures and people all to some extent are also underdeveloped. IIRC in several cases their native languages do not even have words to form the concept of private ownership. Hard to have capitalism in such a case. Peter Baofu words are full of racism, but his point that even in Africa where they presently have all the things Es99 points out were taken from African-American slaves they have remained underdeveloped, although that is now changing as some have adopted the ethos of capitalism.

It appears when you have two parallel cultures, but measure success using a cultural yardstick from the dominate one that is absent in the other, the result will always measure racism. Is this not correct? Is using the white culture capitalistic yardstick of success in and of itself a racist act? Should not their success be measured with a yardstick from their culture? Or, does this capitalistic success yardstick measure past exploitation, not skin color racism?

Es99 wrote:
So how many generations do you think it will be until they can "be as good as white people" especially as white people are so grudging about sharing the wealth they gained from centuries of slavery.
A lot of that wealth went into Europe's coffers, when are they going to pay it back? To answer your question, unfortunately, a very long time. But, do you want to repeal the amendments to the constitution that forbid unequal treatment under law to give an advantage to African-Americans for past injustice to catch up sooner, knowing full well that once those protections are gone that it opens the door to a repeat of those injustices in the future? Laws and especially judicial interpretations always have unintended negative consequences! I don't trust anyone or any government with that kind of power to remain pure.
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Message 1623582 - Posted: 5 Jan 2015, 10:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 1623501.  
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Is using the white culture capitalistic yardstick of success in and of itself a racist act?

Yes.

But there are more universal criteria for "development" and "quality of life" - health and mean life duration.

If one suppose that "inherently" there are no considerable diffrencies between races in these params, of course.

If one has no 3D TV one not necessarily lives in underdeveloped community. But if one most probably dies very young... it's quite different.
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Message 1623649 - Posted: 5 Jan 2015, 12:32:47 UTC - in response to Message 1623501.  
Last modified: 5 Jan 2015, 12:44:09 UTC

Gary your arguments are typical of .......Follow link

Ruling made in Supreme Federal Courts Australia


http://www.spiritland.net/galleries/canberra/WS-C08.jpg


They mite get a bit upset with your attitude

EDIT : to help you google EDDIE MABO court case Australia
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Message 1624160 - Posted: 6 Jan 2015, 3:42:23 UTC - in response to Message 1623501.  

Peter Baofu Ph.D. in http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/02-01-2015/129423-black_white_america-0/ wrote:
And the third reason is that the "black" problem is not solely socio-cultural in America (as many black folks are quick to blame white racism with those handy excuses) but is universal in black communities around the world, be they in the Caribbean islands,

???? Does he know how those people ended in the Caribbean Islands?

sub-Saharan black Africa, or Latin America. In many of these black communities, one often sees poverty and underdevelopment, and the symptoms are numerous enough (e.g., riots, civil wars, genocides, corruption, epidemics, famines, coups, brutality, crimes, etc.). Of course, these symptoms vary from one country to another (with some countries having more and others having less or nothing at all) -- and there are also improvements over time, but the gap between black communities and the rest of the world persists.

British Empire, AKA global piracy.

For instance, in Zimbabwe (in southern Africa), the government under Robert Mugabe began the forceful redistribution of farmland owned by whites (in his "anti-colonial," "anti-white" drive), and yet the country has fallen deeper and deeper into poverty after all these decades.

British Empire. These people were a subclass of the British Empire for a long time and then expected to miraculously know how to farm etc. Mugabe's plan simply wiped out the knowledge that the white overclass had and expected a people that had been kept as an underclass to suddenly be able to do all those things. Not much different to the legacy of slavery in the US.

In Haiti (in the Caribbean islands), the country has remained poor and underdeveloped after more than 200 years of independence from its former colonial master, France. And in spite of hundreds of billions of dollars from the United Nations and other aid donors given to black communities in all these decades, they remain poor and underdeveloped, when contrasted with other regions in the world. In fact, the current Ebola epidemic in Western Africa (again, with generous aids from the United Nations and donors like China, the U.S., and the E.U.) is a latest chapter of this chronic helplessness in black communities around the world.


So nothing to do with the legacy of imperialism and the plundering of wealth and the legacy of slavery then? Really Gary?

Some additional cultures to consider. The First Peoples in America, North and South, and the South Pacific Islanders and Aborigines in Australia.


Do you actually have so little knowledge of what was done the Australian Aboriginals by the White settlers?
Most all of these cultures never had capitalism or profit motive as a traditional part of them, at least before the white man arrived. These cultures and people all to some extent are also underdeveloped.

Only if you consider Capitalism progress. Considering that it has brought the global ecosystem to the point of collapse I am not sure there that it is. Your ignorance of these cultures is not the same as them not having a valuable and viable civilisation.

IIRC in several cases their native languages do not even have words to form the concept of private ownership. Hard to have capitalism in such a case. Peter Baofu words are full of racism, but his point that even in Africa where they presently have all the things Es99 points out were taken from African-American slaves they have remained underdeveloped, although that is now changing as some have adopted the ethos of capitalism.

Africa was plundered by Northern Europe for 100s of years. You could call it capitalism, but it was actually piracy.

It appears when you have two parallel cultures, but measure success using a cultural yardstick from the dominate one that is absent in the other, the result will always measure racism. Is this not correct? Is using the white culture capitalistic yardstick of success in and of itself a racist act? Should not their success be measured with a yardstick from their culture? Or, does this capitalistic success yardstick measure past exploitation, not skin color racism?

You seem blissfully unaware how much western wealth was gained at the expense of these other cultures that you look down your nose at. Must be nice to be so America-centric and oblivious.
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Message 1624205 - Posted: 6 Jan 2015, 7:24:59 UTC

*Farrakhan* wants 18 Trillion in Reparations.

Man O Live.

For The Horror of Treatment to My Ancestors, I'll Take a Billion. Right Now.

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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