Racist? [yes you are]

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Profile Bob DeWoody
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Message 1613617 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 0:54:47 UTC

This thread is going nowhere in the fast lane and is out of control.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1613637 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 1:49:43 UTC - in response to Message 1613561.  

If Clyde had made a post in that thread before that post I linked I must of missed it and then I'm sorry, but the only posts that I've see of Clyde mentioning his family there were after it.

If Clyde mentioned his family in another thread, then any comments on it should've been kept to just that other thread only.

But still, it's better not to make comments on anyone's family at all to make a point.

P.S. after a quick look through that thread I still couldn't find a post by Clyde mentioning his family before that linked post so if he did then please point me to it.

Cheers.


It WAS in another thread Wiggo. I've had a quick sniff about but it involves re-reading a lot of Clyde's posts (hi Clyde :)) and there's a lot of erm... left, right, left, right, centre stuff going on :) Might take me awhile :)

Then any comment by others should've been kept to that thread then and not brought into another 1. ;-)

Cheers.

I disagree. Conversation is not a rigid linear thing and the context would have been the same, even if it were a different thread. I have never heard of these rules you are trying to enforce and I don't even agree that they apply to this situation.
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Message 1613648 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 2:19:45 UTC - in response to Message 1613617.  

This thread is going nowhere in the fast lane and is out of control.


Could you please clarify? Seems perfectly fine to me.
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Message 1613650 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 2:21:12 UTC - in response to Message 1613535.  

Racist? [yes you are]

Well actually, no I'm not.

Extremely unlikely. I'm sure ES99 will be able to identify hundreds of ways you are, which you don't even realize exist.


I agree Gary, the internalized racism is unconscious and although you can be non racist in a conscious/rational way, when you become conscious of your own racism then it is very uncomfortable. But becoming aware of how much we are, is a step in the right direction. I think this is also one of the problems also with institutionalized racism, not being aware that it exists.

It is very complex.

Hev, I'll toss your post http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=76273&postid=1613546 in here
I'll just chuck this in for now, I have to run...

Ideology a Brief Guide, source John Lye, Dept. of English Language & Literature, Brock University, Canada

http://www.brocku.ca/english/jlye/ideology.php wrote:
for the mods:Copyright 1997 by John Lye. This text may be freely used, with attribution, for non-profit purposes.
Ideology is a term developed in the Marxist tradition to talk about how cultures are structured in ways that enable the group holding power to have the maximum control with the minimum of conflict. This is not a matter of groups deliberately planning to oppress people or alter their consciousness (although this can happen), but rather a matter of how the dominant institutions in society work through values, conceptions of the world, and symbol systems, in order to legitimize the current order. Briefly, this legitimization is managed through the widespread teaching (the social adoption) of ideas about the way things are, how the world 'really' works and should work. These ideas (often embedded in symbols and cultural practices) orient people's thinking in such a way that they accept the current way of doing things, the current sense of what is 'natural,' and the current understanding of their roles in society. This socialization process, the shaping of our cognitive and affective interpretations of our social world, is called, by Gramsci, "hegemony;" it is carried out, Althusser writes, by the state ideological apparatuses -- by the churches, the schools, the family, and through cultural forms (such as literature, rock music, advertising, sitcoms, etc.)

While the concept of ideology is most generally associated with power relations, we have to keep from being too simplistic. Power is not a unitary force or phenomenon, nor an exclusively 'political' phenomenon. Power and power relations are woven throughout all our practices and ideas -- power is exercised in every relationship, group, and social practice, and it is not necessarily detrimental (what if a mother decided she did not want to operate in a power relationship to her newborn?). On the other hand, one must not forget that social order relies, in varying degrees, but ultimately, on the ability of one person or group to coerce another person or group, and that the basis of Law, however rationalized, is the authorized use of force.


Now as to systemic racism, it is that, or is a large measure of it an ideology where race was not a specific factor in forming the ideology, but happens to fit, such as holding down the poor. Think about an example, one which was discussed at length a couple years ago, that being the Roma, or travelers. They are subject of the very same systemic forces. The Latino people are subject to it in the USA. You will find it in the issues in Northern Ireland. It exists in China in Tibet and Xinjiang.

This does not make it right; it is still terrible. It does suggest the issue is much wider than simple skin color that the word racism implies. As I alluded too when I said culturalism many posts ago. The opening article I quoted talked about tribalism. I'm thinking racism is to narrow a word to describe the systemic forces. Perhaps "hegemony" is a better word for it.
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Message 1613675 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 4:35:49 UTC

This thread is going nowhere in the fast lane and is out of control.


What's Laughable is The Smirking Face to The Left of The Original Quote 'is' Typing 'it'.

But, I Love People who Say Almost Nothing and Say 'it' with One Condescending Sentence.

I Say More with Oooba or Gooba or Gaaba or Heeba Haaba.

Yep.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1613809 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 11:08:37 UTC

Colour prejudice is one side of racism, but the purest form of racism is 2 statements seen quite regularly on many forums...

"Please do not feed the animals"
"The Great Unwashed"

...so to see either of them on a "Racism" thread is totally...

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Message 1613901 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 16:58:56 UTC - in response to Message 1613832.  

...

Just a note: 'Another' in this Thread, and I, have had many heated discussions. But understood what was not allowed, and what was disgusting.

...

Are you kidding me? You've called me so many names in this forum I've lost track. You've even done it in this thread. Now you persist in this fantasy of "you insulted my family" as if we were in the school yard.

I don't know why I waste my time talking to you.
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Message 1613905 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 17:15:45 UTC

This is a really good article on the issues in this thread and perhaps we can start talking about "whiteness" rather than being stuck on the "I'm not racist because...." part of the discussion.

This a description of a white person trying to talk to white people about racism. I think you will see that there are some commonalities with this debate here: Deeply Embarrassed White People Talk Awkwardly About Race

On Clyde's complaint that I suggested that his black relatives might not want to discuss racism, here is an extract that sums up my thinking behind that statement. Considering Clydes reaction to even discussing racism and his reactions, I think it is definitely something he might want to think about.

"So one answer to the question What can I do? is simple: Listen. Believe.

"I had to stop talking to white people about race, because I kept getting retraumatized," an African American friend told me about her days as a diversity trainer. "They just wanted to talk about why they weren't racist."
"
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Message 1613913 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 17:29:32 UTC - in response to Message 1613911.  

...

Just a note: 'Another' in this Thread, and I, have had many heated discussions. But understood what was not allowed, and what was disgusting.

...

Are you kidding me? You've called me so many names in this forum I've lost track. You've even done it in this thread. Now you persist in this fantasy of "you insulted my family" as if we were in the school yard.

I don't know why I waste my time talking to you.

Es99...

Again incorrect. You are making a habit of this.

Wasn't speaking about you. Why would you believe that?

Clyde, I am beginning to wonder if you actually read posts before replying.
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Message 1613973 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 20:19:27 UTC

Well the can of worms has been open, I just hope that they're not woodworms that start to bring the house down.
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1614042 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 22:46:59 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2014, 22:57:40 UTC

Racist 'is' such an Ugly Word


Would dat make Turd a Smelly Word?

'Is' 'it' How we 'See' which Makes Anything Ugaaleee?

Seems to mee, Such 'is' So and Will Always Bee

But, As We See, we doo doo Think Unwholesomely

Our Thoughts do Many Times Destroy the Trees

And All Ugliness May Vanish, if Only We Blink

Hard and Long, before We Think

Of Another Action so many Believe Stinks

And So I Close, with A Hard[y] TeeHeeTeeHeeTeeeHeee

Mee Thinks

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1614067 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 1:21:43 UTC - in response to Message 1613511.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 1:50:40 UTC

Racist? [yes you are]

Well actually, no I'm not.

Extremely unlikely. I'm sure ES99 will be able to identify hundreds of ways you are, which you don't even realize exist.

Well :) out of curiosity, and to save Es some time, I took the "Race (Black People White People IAT)" test... and am apparently in the six percent of people who have a "Slight automatic preference for Black people compared to White people". Didn't surprise me an awful lot given where I spent my formative years and with whom, and how the only people who ever hurt me or made me afraid were "my own kind" (for want of a better phrase). Does that make me racist Gary? :) I'll let you decide :)

I then took the Skin-tone (Light Skin-Dark Skin IAT) and apparently am in the 17% of people who show "Little to no automatic preference" to the shade of someone's skin.

There are loads of other tests on all sorts of topics regarding prejudice or bias so I will be pottering amongst them over the next few days to see what more I can learn about me :) but first I am going to do this one:

The University of Chicago Shooter Test will see your likelihood of shooting someone who could be pulling out a cellphone or a gun, depending on what race they are. Another interesting test.

...if I EVER get the page to load that is. It's just a flight of fancy as I have never owned a gun, nor will I ever shoot one :)

Oh and for those who are interested, there's a mobile phone app in the form of a game played over seven days that gives you the opportunity to role play everyday racism. I might give that a go too :)

Now... I just need to find a test to see how much more I prefer animals (of all kinds) to humans :)

@Wiggo: Just tidying up a loose end :)
First post on "the subject" in this thread

@Es - my apologies for not finding it earlier (and for only mentioning that it had cropped up elsewhere - which it has)
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Message 1614095 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 3:57:54 UTC - in response to Message 1614067.  

Racist? [yes you are]

Well actually, no I'm not.

Extremely unlikely. I'm sure ES99 will be able to identify hundreds of ways you are, which you don't even realize exist.

Well :) out of curiosity, and to save Es some time, I took the "Race (Black People White People IAT)" test... and am apparently in the six percent of people who have a "Slight automatic preference for Black people compared to White people". Didn't surprise me an awful lot given where I spent my formative years and with whom, and how the only people who ever hurt me or made me afraid were "my own kind" (for want of a better phrase). Does that make me racist Gary? :) I'll let you decide :)

I then took the Skin-tone (Light Skin-Dark Skin IAT) and apparently am in the 17% of people who show "Little to no automatic preference" to the shade of someone's skin.

There are loads of other tests on all sorts of topics regarding prejudice or bias so I will be pottering amongst them over the next few days to see what more I can learn about me :) but first I am going to do this one:

The University of Chicago Shooter Test will see your likelihood of shooting someone who could be pulling out a cellphone or a gun, depending on what race they are. Another interesting test.

...if I EVER get the page to load that is. It's just a flight of fancy as I have never owned a gun, nor will I ever shoot one :)

Oh and for those who are interested, there's a mobile phone app in the form of a game played over seven days that gives you the opportunity to role play everyday racism. I might give that a go too :)

Now... I just need to find a test to see how much more I prefer animals (of all kinds) to humans :)

@Wiggo: Just tidying up a loose end :)
First post on "the subject" in this thread

@Es - my apologies for not finding it earlier (and for only mentioning that it had cropped up elsewhere - which it has)

Appreciate the detective work. Also interested in the tests you have been doing. I am quite sure upbringing has a lot to do with it. I still remember the first black person I saw when I was a child, how very strange and very different it was. I am not sure how I would do on such a test as yours as I initially grew up in a very white area.
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Message 1614099 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 4:30:26 UTC

The 99One said:
am not sure how I would do on such a test as yours as I initially grew up in a very white area.


I Love You Being My Straight Man, 'cuse, Lady.

Setin' Me Up Beautifully fO My Next Volley.

I Grew Up and Have Lived Around/In, Almost My Whole Life, and Now, in The Exact Opposite.

Why The Only Black People who Impress Me are Men or Woman Like This: However, I Do Love This Black Man

This Sheriff is Da Bomb, and There Are Cropping Up Lately, Many Bombs Like This'n.

GOD, I Love The Conversation The PeacePrizer has Started.

Yep.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1614180 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 14:05:11 UTC
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 14:11:35 UTC

In an interview with the DN newspaper that was published on Sunday the Sweden Democrats party secretary Björn Söder said that Jews and Sami are not considered to be Swedish if they are not assimilated!
For heavens sake Sami and Jews have lived in Sweden for generations.
Especially Sami who lived here long before the swedes came to Sweden thousand of years ago.
It's like saying that native americans are not americans and should be assimilated.

Racism are increasing in Europe and it start to smell like the 1930's.
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Message 1614202 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 14:58:32 UTC - in response to Message 1614186.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 15:01:55 UTC

In an interview with the DN newspaper that was published on Sunday the Sweden Democrats party secretary Björn Söder said that Jews and Sami are not considered to be Swedish if they are not assimilated!
For heavens sake Sami and Jews have lived in Sweden for generations.
Especially Sami who lived here long before the swedes came to Sweden thousand of years ago.
It's like saying that native americans are not americans and should be assimilated.
Racism are increasing in Europe and it start to smell like the 1930's.

What does he mean by 'Assimilate'.
Smells very, very, bad.

It means you have to look and behave like a "swede". Whatever that is.
Practicing religon and traditions that is not "Swedish" should probably be banned.
Non Swedish Culture should not be in public spaces.

Even Willy Silberstein, president of the Swedish Committee Against Antisemitism, criticized Björn Söder.
- I am a Jew, born in Sweden. I am Swedish as much as Björn Söder.
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Message 1614234 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 17:03:28 UTC - in response to Message 1614186.  

In an interview with the DN newspaper that was published on Sunday the Sweden Democrats party secretary Björn Söder said that Jews and Sami are not considered to be Swedish if they are not assimilated!
For heavens sake Sami and Jews have lived in Sweden for generations.
Especially Sami who lived here long before the swedes came to Sweden thousand of years ago.
It's like saying that native americans are not americans and should be assimilated.

Racism are increasing in Europe and it start to smell like the 1930's.

What does he mean by 'Assimilate'.

Smells very, very, bad.

Agreed.
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Message 1614245 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 17:34:40 UTC - in response to Message 1614186.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 17:36:44 UTC

What does he mean by 'Assimilate'?

I found from the Sweden Democrats party program what it means.

Sweden Democrats defines the Swedish nation in terms of loyalty, common identity, common language and common culture. Member of the Swedish nation can in our view be by either born into it or by later in life actively choose to be in it.

From "The Sweden Democrats and the nation"
1. "Swedish" according to SD:

As a native Swedish, we expect a person born or adopted at an early age to Sweden by Swedish-speaking parents with Swedish or Nordic identity.

2. Almost Swedish according to SD:

As assimilated to the Swedish nation, we expect the non-Swedish background who speaks fluent Swedish, perceives herself as Swedish, living in accordance with the Swedish culture, see Swedish history as their own and feel a greater loyalty to the Swedish nation than with any other nation.

3. Excluded Swedish according to SD:

Just as a person born in another nation later in life can be a part of the Swedish nation we also mean that even as a native Swedish may cease to be a part of the Swedish nation by switching loyalty, language, identity or culture.


Now this is not unique to Sweden.
Look at France, Greece and Hungary.

Almost forgot. British UKIP.
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Message 1614268 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 18:40:17 UTC - in response to Message 1614245.  

What does he mean by 'Assimilate'?

I found from the Sweden Democrats party program what it means.

Sweden Democrats defines the Swedish nation in terms of loyalty, common identity, common language and common culture. Member of the Swedish nation can in our view be by either born into it or by later in life actively choose to be in it.

From "The Sweden Democrats and the nation"
1. "Swedish" according to SD:

As a native Swedish, we expect a person born or adopted at an early age to Sweden by Swedish-speaking parents with Swedish or Nordic identity.

2. Almost Swedish according to SD:

As assimilated to the Swedish nation, we expect the non-Swedish background who speaks fluent Swedish, perceives herself as Swedish, living in accordance with the Swedish culture, see Swedish history as their own and feel a greater loyalty to the Swedish nation than with any other nation.

3. Excluded Swedish according to SD:

Just as a person born in another nation later in life can be a part of the Swedish nation we also mean that even as a native Swedish may cease to be a part of the Swedish nation by switching loyalty, language, identity or culture.


Now this is not unique to Sweden.
Look at France, Greece and Hungary.

Almost forgot. British UKIP.

I think you could add nearly every country and religion in the world to that list.
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Message 1614300 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 19:26:40 UTC - in response to Message 1614067.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 19:27:50 UTC

@Wiggo: Just tidying up a loose end :)
First post on "the subject" in this thread

Thank you Annie for proving my point.

Any comments about should've been kept to this thread, not dragged by another into another thread by someone else. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message boards : Politics : Racist? [yes you are]


 
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