Time to replace my backup machine. It runs Crash Plan and does an excellent job backing up all my other systems. I would like to put my back up on a machine that can do some serious number crunching when it is just sitting there waiting.

1. It appears that GPU's are what do heavy crunching. Looking at Geforce GTX 750ti and Radeon R9 280x cards. Does the vendor make a difference? If I have a 4 PCI-Express x16 slots can I mix and match? It appears some cards are better for Seti, and some better for others.

2. Motherboard. I would like to run multiple GPU cards. Boards with 4 PCI-Express x16 slots seem to at the sweet spot between cost and performance. And the total cost of GPU cards. Any guidance?

3. CPU - 4 core or 8 core, AMD or Intel? Will any of this make much of a difference?

4. Will be running Windows. Does pro or home edition make any difference? Win 7 or Win 8.1 make much difference? Does the running of multiple GPU cards dictate a choice?

5. I would like to keep the cost of each component under $200. Well under would be nice. But need to lock in CPU, Motherboard, and first GPU. Will probably add the GPU's over the next few months.

6. Existing disk drives will be transplanted. May add some additional drives later. Will start with existing 600W PSU. Plan to reuse Mid-Tower enclosure.

7. I currently run Bonic and stock Seti apps. Open to trying the advanced custom apps, but want something that once set up will just run.

Looking first for advice to keep me from making an expensive mistake. Then for tips that help me get most crunching for my dollars.

Thanks

Herb

Hi, I got EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti FTW w/ EVGA ACX Cooling one mount ago for my backup pc. I am digging review sites and boinc project forums. This card have openCL and Cuda and especially low power efficient. Most Boinc projects use opencl applications on GPU these days And biggest cooler area of this type of 750ti in this brand vendor cards so very low noise.

3. Cpu always intel more efficient then amd in last years. I recomment 8 core cause you think 3-4 GPU. Some boinc GPU WUs use also GPU+CPU cores at openCL app. And new projects comes with MT core applications.

for MB 4x16 PCIe is good but too close for vga card slots for enough fun air intake. For that reason I chouse 3x 16PCIe M/B type. Look enough space between slots when you chouse MB.

For PSU unit give some more power for future cards. 600W has seem enough but 750w more efficient with 3 vga power connectors.

And for RAM chouse cooler type of ram, 8GB is enough i think.

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Seti@home Classic account User ID 955 member since 8 Sep 1999 classic CPU time 539,770 hours

Stay away from Win 8.x flavors. If you want the latest Windows; wait for Win 10; being beta tested now. If needed soon to immediately, I HIGHLY recommend Win 7 Pro x64 OEM. My local computer store sells it for $139.95 plus tax.

Win 7 Pro has better networking support than Home Premium. I'm sure others will chime in with other specifications on 7 Pro vs. H.P.

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Herb,

That is a really loaded question, lol.

Seti relies more on the GPU than on the PCIe slot or the CPU. So if Seti is the only project you are going to run then you can spend more on the GPUs and less on the Motherboard and CPU.

Some of the top Computers here have high end GPUs rather than high end MoBo and CPUs.

The use of lunatics app also help these GPUs .

That being said, if you plan on doing other projects, then you are going to have to look at them individually.

As an example. Einstein.....

They haven't updated their apps in some time so they are still using cuda 32.

They are also more highly reliant on the PCIe slot to transfer the data from the GPU to the CPU so it can do a lot of the heavy work.

So in that scenario, you would need a high end Motherboard and high end CPU and low end GPUs.

For Einstein, the use of older AMD ATI cards are better situated for that project.

Coming back to Seti.

If this project is going to be the only one you crunch for then, you can go with a lower end Motherboard with lesser PCIe slots.

More Cores on your CPU is always recommended but for seti you can go with AMD chips rather than the more expensive Intel.

I can give you an example of a computer I built for Seti

AMD FX-8350 chip
Gigabyte FX990-UD3 Motherboard (PCIex16 x2) If you use the last slot on the board then it changes #2 PCIex16 to x4 and the last slot is a x4 also
4 Nvidia GTX 750ti

1 via the PCIe1 slot and riser
1 in each of the 3 provide slots of the board running in the following speeds x16, x4, x4

Most users prefer Windows 7 64 bit as most of the problems have been worked out with that OS.
Doesn't make a difference between pro or home edition.

For seti this setup works fine, but if you tried this for Einstein you would see some issues with productivity.

If you chose to use GTX 750 with the ACX fans beware that the fans blow half of the hot air back into the case as opposed to traditional GPUs where all the heat goes out the back. So you are going to need more fans on the case to remove that extra heat.

Which type of GPU is better for Seti, that is still an active debate but both work fine. I tend to stay with Nvidia. But the choice is yours.

If you have any more question, just ask.


Happy Crunching..

Zalster

mixing and matching GPU's might not be a good idea. You will run into many issues, especially with drivers and random crashes. Start with a budget, and squeeze into it 4 GPU's of the same type. Brand wouldn't matter, I am personally with MSI. Just make sure that your PSU has enough juice to handle 4 GPU's and your CPU has enough power to handle the GPU's as well. OS wouldn't matter, I have Windows 8.1 and I got used to it. It's a matter of personal choice, but win8.1 will be supported longer than win7, if you're planning that far ahead. Home, or pro, or whatever wouldn't matter for cunching. I got a win8 for 139$ in my country and you can upgrade for free to win8.1.

CPU is either 2 or 4 cores, those are the physical ones. When you say 8 cores, you're talking about 4 physical acting as 8 (hyperthreading). 4 GPU's will require the 4 cores (8 considering HT). You can also start with stock apps and migrate to optimized ones a month of so later.

The most crucial point that you should worry about is cooling. If you can go for a full tower case it would be better. More space and more fans configuration. Look for one that is designed to support liquid cooling (highly advised for CPU). If you won't use it now, you might later on.

There are other threads that debated this on the forum. One of those is "the ultimate build". I would advise against using your backup machine for crunching. Backup is meant to be reliable, secure and durable. There are open source options for backup machines, and would cost a lot less than building a decent cruncher.

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Technically I can't say what My 'new' motherboard is, it says Classified... ;)

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

mixing and matching GPU's might not be a good idea. You will run into many issues, especially with drivers and random crashes.

Whenever someone claims a mixed GPU system is prone to crashing, I feel compelled to say that definitely is not the case. While one may run into issues with this more complex set-up, it's certainly not a given that crashes will happen, at least crashes due to mixed GPUs specifically.

That being said, my understanding is that current Linux kernels do not permit simultaneous use of Catalyst and GeForce proprietary drivers.

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Soli Deo Gloria

Thank you to all that have replied. I have learned a few more things and some of my confusion has been cleared up. I hadn't realized that the GTX 750TI cards only needed a PCIe slot not a full PCIe x16. I think some of my concerns about OS choice have been clarified.

The points about cooling were an excellent reminder for me. There are some posts I made from last summer where I was learning that the hard way. Big coolers are certainly needed.

Michaels caution about combining backup and number crunching is a good one. If this was my only back up I might be more concerned, but I also use Crash Plan to back up all irreplaceable stuff to their servers. Relatively cheap with unlimited storage (1.2 terebytes and counting). Not sure I see Seti crashing the hard drives. Burning out CPU or Memory Yes. But backup is important, and I have the scars and empty wallet from learning the hard way.

I hope to start placing orders for parts by the middle of the week, so if anyone else has thoughts please jump in.

Thanks

Herb

Herb,

That is a really loaded question, lol.

Seti relies more on the GPU than on the PCIe slot or the CPU. So if Seti is the only project you are going to run then you can spend more on the GPUs and less on the Motherboard and CPU.

Some of the top Computers here have high end GPUs rather than high end MoBo and CPUs.

The use of lunatics app also help these GPUs .

That being said, if you plan on doing other projects, then you are going to have to look at them individually.

As an example. Einstein.....

They haven't updated their apps in some time so they are still using cuda 32.

They are also more highly reliant on the PCIe slot to transfer the data from the GPU to the CPU so it can do a lot of the heavy work.

So in that scenario, you would need a high end Motherboard and high end CPU and low end GPUs.

For Einstein, the use of older AMD ATI cards are better situated for that project.

Coming back to Seti.

If this project is going to be the only one you crunch for then, you can go with a lower end Motherboard with lesser PCIe slots.

More Cores on your CPU is always recommended but for seti you can go with AMD chips rather than the more expensive Intel.

I can give you an example of a computer I built for Seti

AMD FX-8350 chip
Gigabyte FX990-UD3 Motherboard (PCIex16 x2) If you use the last slot on the board then it changes #2 PCIex16 to x4 and the last slot is a x4 also
4 Nvidia GTX 750ti

1 via the PCIe1 slot and riser
1 in each of the 3 provide slots of the board running in the following speeds x16, x4, x4

Most users prefer Windows 7 64 bit as most of the problems have been worked out with that OS.
Doesn't make a difference between pro or home edition.

For seti this setup works fine, but if you tried this for Einstein you would see some issues with productivity.

If you chose to use GTX 750 with the ACX fans beware that the fans blow half of the hot air back into the case as opposed to traditional GPUs where all the heat goes out the back. So you are going to need more fans on the case to remove that extra heat.

Which type of GPU is better for Seti, that is still an active debate but both work fine. I tend to stay with Nvidia. But the choice is yours.

If you have any more question, just ask.


Happy Crunching..

Zalster

Motherboards I have looked at all seem to have the same/similar notations for their PCIe bus. 1 gpu x16, if 2 gpu's x8,x8, 3 gpu's x8,x4,x4.

Are you saying that some motherboards might have 3 PCIe slots that might be in fact x16, x16, x16?

I normally look at retail outlets like amazon, tigerdirect or newegg. I have never seen more detailed information than what I said in my first paragraph. Can you help me out here? Thanks

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merle - vote yes for freedom of speech

Are you saying that some motherboards might have 3 PCIe slots that might be in fact x16, x16, x16?

You may read this if interested in details:
http://www.enthusiastpc.net/articles/00003/

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- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

Merle,

there isn't a truely x16 PCIe for all the slots. I have seen this one advertised as on. It is an ASUS motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132263

But I don't recommend anyone to get it. If you do so, it is at your own risk.

I've heard it from people that have used their products before and it a crapshoot. Sometimes the boards work, other times it's a DOA (dead on arrival)

You really need to know what you are doing if it doesn't boot up the first time.

Support is terrible since it's made over in Asia and it's hard to get them on the line.

If it was a US company where you could get help within a decent amount of time, I'd be recommending it but do some research on your own and see what the reviews say.


Zalster

edit..

Sorry Merle, even this board isn't a true x16 per slot. Finally got a better look the specifications since the last time I look at it, they added a new page that show they actually do the same as other and change to x8 when placed into the second or fourth slots. So there you go. No true all x16 PCIe slot motherboard

Thanks BilBg and Zalster,

My last motherboard is the usual x16 or x8,x8 or x8,x4,x4. Looking at Zalsters board, its price and his comments, I have no desire to go there. I have two gpu's on my board now a 280x and 270x (both amd r9). I don't think it would benefit much to add a third 270x to my board.

I was thinking, more like wishing, for another rig. My dream rig where I could improve on the motherboard's limitations like the one I have. My second rig was an asrock because my first asrock was successful. No other reason.

But some people have three or four gpu's on their boards. There must be something I'm missing here. You know I can be a nitpicker. [If only seti was a nitpiker! :-) ]

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merle - vote yes for freedom of speech

Merle,

Remember, for Seti PCIe isn't as important. It's your GPUs that count, so you can use 3-4 cards per machine.

For Einstein, you would be better off with several computers running Intel MoBo and chips using 1-2 cards at most.

Zalster

Merle,

Remember, for Seti PCIe isn't as important. It's your GPUs that count, so you can use 3-4 cards per machine.

For Einstein, you would be better off with several computers running Intel MoBo and chips using 1-2 cards at most.

Zalster

Yes that was the missing piece. My 3rd card depends on whether I stay with Einstein or go back to seti ap. My dream machine idea can wait for another year or two. Thanks.

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merle - vote yes for freedom of speech

If it was a US company ...

Name it!:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_hardware_manufacturers#Motherboards

Most Motherboards are designed in Taiwan and made in China

ASUS is considered one of the best brands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus

ASUS (Taiwan) made the early Motherboards for Dell (American)
("Dell said to Asus. “You can produce our motherboards.” ")
http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-story-of-asus-and-dell

"Dell doesn’t build those computers. It doesn’t ship those computers. It doesn’t service those computers. It simply allows companies in Taiwan to put the name “Dell” on the machines."

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- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

Many thanks to all that took the time to post. The link to the write up on PCIe was really informative. That guy should write similar things on all the major subsystems. Technical but very clear.

I have pretty much made my choices. Will sleep on it tonight and hopefully start placing orders tomorrow or Thursday.

I am posting here for one more sanity check.

CPU - AMD FX-8350 Black edition 8-core Model FD8350FRHKBOX
Motherboard - ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX R2.0
Memory - Corsair Vengeance. 8gb (2 x 4GB) Model CMZ8GX3M2A1866c9B
Windows 8.1 64bit OEM
Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU color with 120mm PWN Fan. Because the ones I have work great. Buy appears to a shortage of them many sites showing out of stock.
GPU - GeForce GTX 750TI - Haven't settled on which vendor version yet. I saw one vendor with a single slot version, may go with that. 2 to start and 2 more in a month or two.
Drives, case, PSU (650w), ect will all be reused from prior machine.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Herb

Herb, if you are going to try and cram, 4 single-slot GTX750Ti's into the Sabertooth, you will knock down the PCIe slot speeds to X4. For some projects that won't be a hindrance at all, others ..... will be hamstrung on feeding the GPU's fast enough. Also, you had better have very good case air flow to keep those cards cool. The 750Ti's are very good on power but they will still heat up quite a bit when run at 99% utilization. Another thing to think about is the PSU. You don't want to scrimp on the amps available on the 12V bus for the PCIe cables. The 650 watt PSU would be adequate for two GPU's, but might be really on the hairy edge for 4 cards. Great choice on the Sabertooth 990FX, FX-8350 and CM 212 EVO. I ran that configuration for a couple of years at 4.2 GHz. Just in the last 6 months, decided to go with the AIO Corsair H105 for the CPU. Now at 4.4GHz. Just updated from twin EVGA GTX670's to twin EVGA GTX970's. I run two identical systems except for the cases. One is a CM HAF 922 and the other a Corsair Air 540. The Air 540 is an awesome case and it was drop in for the AIO. I had to mount the AIO off center in the top of the HAF922. Am really seeing a huge boost in RAC for the new 970's. Pretty happy with the power consumption, have saved about 100 watts over the old systems.

The only suggestion I might make is if you can spring for $40 more for the Noctua NH-D14 air cooler. That would be the extreme in air cooling for the CPU. Your case would have to be wide enough though. Currently, a very good buy at $70 at Newegg.com

Sounds like you are off to a good start. Good luck with the project.

Cheers, Keith

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Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Ok on My replacement motherboard, I'm using an EVGA X79 Classified w/a 3820 cpu, the cpu cooler is a Cooler Master Glacer, technically it's an aio water cooler, except I could replace the 120x240 radiator with a bigger radiator as the Glacer is compatible with G1/4 connectors, I still need an Azza GT1 case, since My two video cards are cooled with closed loop aio water cooling, the case I should be able to get in January 2015... aio means 'all in one', for those who don't know, I like aio better than any air cooler, as the temps are lower, the Glacer radiator is copper/brass based, not aluminum like most.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

I think your choices are good.

The CPU is the Black edition so you can overclock if you want to.

The motherboard has enough slots.

That CPU cooler is popular.

All the 750 Ti I see at the moment will use up two slots, so a true single slot model will be needed for the fourth card unless you want to use a PCI-E riser.

Herb, unless it is an emergency I would not do anything for a couple of months. There should be a GTX 960 in the works.

You need cards that look like this:

http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=04G-P4-1972-KR

The blower-type fan will exhaust the hot air out of the back of your case and that's going to be important for three or four cards on a board.

The 750Tis are nice and they are pretty good little crunchers,and they are cheap, but you said

"I would like to put my back up on a machine that can do some serious number crunching when it is just sitting there waiting."

The 750Ti is *not* a "serious" number-cruncher by any stretch of the imagination. Providing the motherboard and eight cores of CPU to drive three or four of these is probably a mis-allocation of your financial resources. You might well do better with two much better cards running on a PCIe 3.0 motherboard with only two PCIe x 16 slots. We'll have to see what they do about the GTX 960 to know how far you have to go.

I do own two 750Ti cards. They were intended for a couple of systems that needed to have low power consumption. One has made it there, the other will soon. So I don't have anything against the cards, but they aren't "serious" crunchers.

I own almost all AMD CPUs.

The AMD CPUs are LOUSY crunchers. If you are going to run CPU tasks, you really need to re-think that choice. If you aren't going to run CPU tasks, then yeah, the AMD boards are cheaper as are the CPUs themselves, but they do burn a lot more power.