Gary I disagree, methinks the oligarchs won by manipulating the tea people and bible thumpers. They think they won but time will show they will be in the same sad boat they started in.

Oh the tea people may figure it out, or they may actually be dense enough to simply follow their book of fairy tales, or perhaps worse, have the crusades all over again for several hundred years this time using nukes. Religion is a tough monster to control once it is released, the oligarchs may not be up to the task.

Religious faith is a vital part of the equation.




I don't think anyone would say that we are on the right half of that diagram.

Which one of the three places (Complacency, Apathy, or Dependence) on the left side the majority in the USA is actually in. There are arguments that can be made in support of all three. My personal opinion is 'Dependence' (sliding rapidly back into Bondage), but yours may vary. But, we are DEFINITELY past 'Selfishness'. You can hardly blame the T.E.A. party and the (so-called) Bible-thumpers for resisting the progression, even though their efforts are doomed to failure.

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

MK that circle is wrong. Spiritual Faith belongs between Apathy and Dependence.

---

Gary...

Your description of people as "Jesus freaks" and your previous "horde of Jews" description (Message 1834501) is disgusting.

No more disgusting than 50% of your posts CLYDE and their description of others, so stop when will you stop making a proper hypercritical ass of yourself?

MK that circle is wrong. Spiritual Faith belongs between Apathy and Dependence.

Exactly right. ;-)

Cheers.

This is a thread about climate change funnily enough so if we could get back on subject, rather that attacking each other.


Personally I think this sort of sums up the problems on theses forums

I only attack a persons Political, Economic and Social beliefs. Not their Religion, Race, Gender, Sexual Orientation, etc.

Might it not be better to try and engage people with positive arguments as to why their way is wrong and yours is better. Rather than "attack"

Attack is what I see from many here. If a person will not listen to reason, they are not likely to respond in a positive way to an attack.

But feel free to carry on, and be glad you can, at least for now.

This is a thread about climate change funnily enough so if we could get back on subject, rather that attacking each other.


Personally I think this sort of sums up the problems on theses forums

I only attack a persons Political, Economic and Social beliefs. Not their Religion, Race, Gender, Sexual Orientation, etc.

Might it not be better to try and engage people with positive arguments as to why their way is wrong and yours is better. Rather than "attack"

Attack is what I see from many here. If a person will not listen to reason, they are not likely to respond in a positive way to an attack.

But feel free to carry on, and be glad you can, at least for now.

Agree...

No one should attack a persons religion, race, etc., nor excuse the attacker, in any forum.

When a religious group tries to control the behavior of this agnostic I will attack with much vigor.

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“Money talks,” Ms. Simpson said. “You can deny the science. You can’t deny the economics.”
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20161214/NEWS06/912310980/Insurers-reinsurers-climate-risk-disclosure-recommendations-Swiss-Re
“Putting politics to the side … change will come about because this is our fiduciary duty,” she added.

“Money talks,” Ms. Simpson said. “You can deny the science. You can’t deny the economics.”
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20161214/NEWS06/912310980/Insurers-reinsurers-climate-risk-disclosure-recommendations-Swiss-Re
“Putting politics to the side … change will come about because this is our fiduciary duty,” she added.

+1
That's probably going to be the reason, that changes some peoples minds.

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“Money talks,” Ms. Simpson said. “You can deny the science. You can’t deny the economics.”
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20161214/NEWS06/912310980/Insurers-reinsurers-climate-risk-disclosure-recommendations-Swiss-Re
“Putting politics to the side … change will come about because this is our fiduciary duty,” she added.

The beginning. The change will happen when everyone starts seeing a line item billing for climate change. When the Donald has to pay a huge rider on his Florida properties, "AGW sea level rise risk" that might wake him up.


betreger wrote:

When a religious group tries to control the behavior of this agnostic I will attack with much vigor.

+1 and there are groups out there insisting and forcing their religion upon persons who do not want it today, or falsely claiming some state is a religion. Unfortunately for most of these groups part of their religion is the denial that man or natural selection has any influence as they hold their deity to be the only possible influence.

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“Money talks,” Ms. Simpson said. “You can deny the science. You can’t deny the economics.”
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20161214/NEWS06/912310980/Insurers-reinsurers-climate-risk-disclosure-recommendations-Swiss-Re
“Putting politics to the side … change will come about because this is our fiduciary duty,” she added.

+1
That's probably going to be the reason, that changes some peoples minds.

Janneseti & WinterKnight,

That is what I was saying here about 6 years ago (Jan 2011).

The problem I refer to is the enormous waste of debate over the 'CO2 thing'. What we have on the CO2 thing is not settled science. It can't be settled at this time due to a lack of understanding of many of the processes involved. What we DO have is the opinions of many (maybe even most) climate scientists. Maybe they are right, maybe they aren't. I don't know. Majority of opinion, however, does NOT equate to 'settled science'.

One camp, the 'Goreists', claim it is settled science when it just isn't. The other camp (termed the 'deniers' by the Goreists) uses this to attack the basic premise. All this debate is polarizing ever greater numbers of people into the opposing camps in this wasteful, meaningless debate.

Please now, pay attention...

There are plenty of reasons to do the exact same dang thing the 'Goreists' advocate. Reasons that do not involve the dubious 'CO2 thing'. Reasons that are grounded in science that *IS* settled, as well as in economics.

We need to put the silly debate over the 'CO2 thing' to rest and get on with doing what we NEED to do. The CO2-thing debate is distracting us from the task at hand. OGC (the so-called 'fossil fuels') should no longer be wasted by burning them as fuel. They are just too valuable for other uses.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=62641&postid=1063094

And here is one from June 2007:

Do I support development of 'alternative' energy sources? You bet! Though, not for reasons of 'climate change', but for simpler, economic reasons. And I have supported them since the '70s.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=37423&postid=579853

Heh... That article you linked, Janneseti... It is still based on 'climate change', not on economic reasons, for phasing out Oil/Gas/Coal use for fuel. There I thought that someone had finally seen the light. Nope.

---

https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

Getting back to the polluting game of actively denying that we are industriously polluting ourselves to an early hell, can we Trump this?...


Former Nasa chief scientist says access to federal data is critical

Limiting access to federal research would do an "enormous disservice" to the US and the world according to former Nasa chief scientist. ... continued access to data is in "everyone's best interest".

Many US scientists are rushing to copy information onto servers outside the control of the federal government.

They are afraid the Trump administration will curb access to climate and other research...



Toronto 'guerrilla' archivists to help preserve US climate data

Canadian "guerrilla" archivists will be assisting a rushed effort to preserve US government climate data.

Environmentalists, climate scientists and academics are collaborating to protect what they view as fragile digital federal records and research.

They want the data [rescued] before Donald Trump takes office...



Has Trump really hired an ignorant and blindly religious Flat-Earther to dismantle NASA?...! Or is this all just a game of hellish corruption?

Only in the USA?...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Has Trump really hired an ignorant and blindly religious Flat-Earther to dismantle NASA?...! Or is this all just a game of hellish corruption?

No.

This type of silly attack by the Warmest's. Only emboldens the Denier's claim of False Warmest Science.

BTW: Anybody notice the Name Calling, from both sides, are ridiculous.

Clyde,

So... You Believe the Earth is flat and unchanged since the days of Genesis as described by Your Bible?


Only on our only on Earth,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Has Trump really hired an ignorant and blindly religious Flat-Earther to dismantle NASA?...! Or is this all just a game of hellish corruption?

No.

This type of silly attack by the Warmest's. Only emboldens the Denier's claim of False Warmest Science.

BTW: Anybody notice the Name Calling, from both sides, are ridiculous.

Clyde,

So... You Believe the Earth is flat and unchanged since the days of Genesis as described by Your Bible?

"How does he know, the Bible tells me so."

It is a convenient crutch for those who don't want to think and those who want to restrict thinking.

---

This a somewhat stark statement to welcome Trump as President for Climate of all kinds:

San Francisco’s Official Response to the Election of Trump

Strange times indeed...

Only in the USA?

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

This a somewhat stark statement to welcome Trump as President for Climate of all kinds:

San Francisco’s Official Response to the Election of Trump

Strange times indeed...

Only in the USA?

All on our only one planet,
Martin

SanFran can slide off into the ocean.
Best I not say much more. Liberal and illegal sanctuary that they wanna be.

Bye bye now.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Is it at all possible that some of you could stop with the juvenile name calling.

I really think this thread needs a day or so to cool down so people can stop attacking each other with almost no discussion of the subject of this thread'

Why is it some of you just seem to wish to get "one up" on other posters.

I see very little real intelligent discussion here.

The moderators try a little "give and take" in these threads to allow the discussions to flow.

However I see that many don't like this so I suspect we will have to moderate "by the book"

Which could well mean a lot of the previous posts would disappear.

Thanks Bernie for cooling the (personal heat) of the thread.


Back into the real world, can the deniers deny this:


Arctic heatwave could break records

Temperatures at the North Pole could be up to 20 degrees higher than average this Christmas Eve...

... these unseasonably warm weather patterns in the Arctic region are directly linked to man-made climate change.

Temperatures throughout November and December were 5C higher than average. It follows a summer during which Arctic sea ice reached the second-lowest extent ever recorded by satellites...


And can we "re-educate" Trump to put our only one planet before his own and that of his cronies' corrupting businesses?...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I see very little real intelligent discussion here.

'Views' of 'Intelligence' DIFFER WIDELY. And Should NEVER be 'Discussed'.

However. Take A Look At My HUGE Head. 'Intelligence' Would Say dere be Some Massive SMARTS in Dat HUGE Lava Rockin' DRum DRumin' Head.

FAKE Science is Created to Keep dA MONEY Flowin' into A HUGE FAKE 'Science' 'Community' of BIASED Political Agenda Minions.

Like FAKE Voting, FAKE Climate 'Science' will be Exposed in Next Four Years of Our Great Again America.


DR HO HUM will Continue to Beat Beat Beat Beat dA DRum DRum fO REAL Non-Biased; Not-Agendatized; NOT FAKE Science.

Make SCIENCE GREAT AGAIN

Not FAKE Yap

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

FAKE Science is Created to Keep dA MONEY Flowin' into A HUGE FAKE 'Science' 'Community'

Dull who was once a worm are you talking about the scientists with this project?

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Be skeptical of the motivation of both sides. Especially when money and prestige are involved.
Yes... All humans, including Scientists, are sinners.

Can you say what money a Scientist GW alarmist can gain from scientific studies?
I would say none.
Prestige?
Perhaps:) A rather silly motivation when it comes to GW.

Be skeptical of the motivation of both sides. Especially when money and prestige are involved.
Yes... All humans, including Scientists, are sinners.

Can you say what money a Scientist GW alarmist can gain from scientific studies?
I would say none.
Prestige?
Perhaps:) A rather silly motivation when it comes to GW.

Janneseti,

That one is simple.

Grants. They study certain things, and come to certain conclusions, they are more likely to get grants for more 'research'. This applies to both sides... The Warmists, AND the Deniers...

The more research they can get funded, the more likely they are to retain their position... Hence have money for things such as housing, food, and paying the bills.

And as far as prestige goes... All the physicists all over the world that are trying to poke holes in Einstein's theory of general relativity... the one that finally does it will be extremely famous. Likely will win the Nobel prize in Physics (that prize is not about the $$, but ALL about the prestige). A silly motivation? Hardly. Scientists are human.

'Fame' and 'Fortune' are extremely important to a large number of humans, therefore to a large number of scientists. They definitely outrank 'the search for truth' in the eyes of many.

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.