After 2012, the polar ice has actually grown both in extent and thickness according to an article in Nature


Jann the Article was published in july 2015 if you look at the graph (the link I put up at the bottom of the post ) it will show you that in 2013 - 2015 the sea ice did increase .

However this year there has been a dramatic drop and is now less than at any other time . I am expecting the low to be very low possibly down to 2 - 2.8 million square KLM's or less .

The El-Nino and the fact that during winter there was a high concentration of Co2 , 405 ppm .Over the North pole keeping temps higher than they should have been . The Co2 should have been much lower at that time of the year . Think of the Co2 being a big cloud that rolled over the North Pole and that was picked up and shown in a graph I was looking at . It could have been at the NSIDC web site seeing as I check it every few days .
Glenn. I and perhaps many others are confused over the fact that the polar ice increases even when the temperatures are rising.
Especially when there are now some temperatures readings from the water below the ice that is now more than 1 degree celcius.
My guess is that we will see a more rapid melting in just a few couples of years

When the sea ice increases it's not only the temps that can increase the amount of sea ice as it points to another thing that you have pointed out .

The Glaciers and ice sheets in Greenland .

As temps increase they melt faster and push more ice into the ocean .

If the Oceans them self's where not heating up you would end up with more ice in the Ocean and more Area covered buy it but as we know the Oceans are also heating up and that is melting the ice quicker in the ocean

In the south the ice sheet is up to 3.8klm thick so we have not seen the sea ice extent drop so much as the Glaciers melt they are pushing more ice into the sea .
I think they need to put a Altimeter at the south pole and hopefully it will tell us if the ice sheet is in fact dropping in height as that will relate to the ice sheet melting faster than the ice is being replaced in winter but the south pole is a different animal to the north pole .

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What has happened in the last 12 months is when the Co2 cloud moved over the north pole on the Canadian side I think it was , the air temp in winter was not as cold so the snow did not fall as much and that has made the ice thiner even thou more ice has been pushed into the sea from Greenland .

Hence now summer is coming and warmer temps means the ice that should be 6 meters thick is not that thick so will melt quicker this year .

Even thou Greenland's glaciers will melt faster and push more ice into the sea the net gain is negative .

had the Co2 cloud not been over the North pole then we may have seen a increase in sea ice extent.

The melting glaciers are important during Autumn and winter when talking sea ice extent but as spring comes around it becomes less important The temps in winter are more important than how much ice has been pushed into the sea during Autumn

hope that helps you understand it . both temps Co2 and Glaciers are all linked what happens in one system effects the others

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What has happened in the last 12 months is when the Co2 cloud moved over the north pole on the Canadian side I think it was , the air temp in winter was not as cold so the snow did not fall as much and that has made the ice thiner even thou more ice has been pushed into the sea from Greenland .

Hence now summer is coming and warmer temps means the ice that should be 6 meters thick is not that thick so will melt quicker this year .

Even thou Greenland's glaciers will melt faster and push more ice into the sea the net gain is negative .

had the Co2 cloud not been over the North pole then we may have seen a increase in sea ice extent.

The melting glaciers are important during Autumn and winter when talking sea ice extent but as spring comes around it becomes less important The temps in winter are more important than how much ice has been pushed into the sea during Autumn

hope that helps you understand it . both temps Co2 and Glaciers are all linked what happens in one system effects the others

There is a scary scenario that if the ice on Greenland melts to quick it will change the Gulf Stream direction and Northern Europe will become like Siberia:(
Then I'm off. Any suggestions?

What has happened in the last 12 months is when the Co2 cloud moved over the north pole on the Canadian side I think it was , the air temp in winter was not as cold so the snow did not fall as much and that has made the ice thiner even thou more ice has been pushed into the sea from Greenland .

Hence now summer is coming and warmer temps means the ice that should be 6 meters thick is not that thick so will melt quicker this year .

Even thou Greenland's glaciers will melt faster and push more ice into the sea the net gain is negative .

had the Co2 cloud not been over the North pole then we may have seen a increase in sea ice extent.

The melting glaciers are important during Autumn and winter when talking sea ice extent but as spring comes around it becomes less important The temps in winter are more important than how much ice has been pushed into the sea during Autumn

hope that helps you understand it . both temps Co2 and Glaciers are all linked what happens in one system effects the others

There is a scary scenario that if the ice on Greenland melts to quick it will change the Gulf Stream direction and Northern Europe will become like Siberia:(
Then I'm off. Any suggestions?

Tasmania not to hot and not to cold . The Apple Island as we call it .

You might just find Queensland to hot hell even where I am it get hot in Sydney but good old Tassy(nick name for Tasmania) is just right

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There is a scary scenario that if the ice on Greenland melts to quick it will change the Gulf Stream direction and Northern Europe will become like Siberia:(

Well Jann that is already starting the current has started slowing down .

As for Europe being like Siberia , more like colder but shorter winters and hotter longer summers , your area probably much warmer

Nobody really knows what will happen till it's happened .

The Atmosphere has not been like this for millions of years , we know what will happen if we don't stop ...and buy the time we realise , it will be to late !!

A thief in the night !!!

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As for Europe being like Siberia , more like colder but shorter winters and hotter longer summers , your area probably much warmer

Actually the models show it will be the opposite even with the Gulf Stream.
Here we will have warmer winters and colder summers.
It's going to rain more often in the summers.
Occasionaly heat waves that are hotter but shorter than they used to be.

As for Europe being like Siberia , more like colder but shorter winters and hotter longer summers , your area probably much warmer

Actually the models show it will be the opposite even with the Gulf Stream.
Here we will have warmer winters and colder summers.
It's going to rain more often in the summers.
Occasionaly heat waves that are hotter but shorter than they used to be.

here's a link you can use to watch the Gulf stream and other currebts around the world . First it may just show Australia but just click on the Global view and you see the whole world .

It's called the SST . Sea Surface Temps .(will show El-nino and La-nena)

Blue is colder water Red is hotter scale -4 C to +4 C

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/indicator_sst.jsp?lt=global&lc=global&c=ssta

If you enlarge the page you can see it better

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here's a link you can use to watch the Gulf stream and other currebts around the world . First it may just show Australia but just click on the Global view and you see the whole world .
It's called the SST . Sea Surface Temps .(will show El-nino and La-nena)
Blue is colder water Red is hotter scale -4 C to +4 C
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/indicator_sst.jsp?lt=global&lc=global&c=ssta

I see that the SST anomaly is now above 2 degrees Celsius in the Baltic Sea.
Make sense. Icebreakers are not needed here any more.
25 years ago they where needed even sometimes in May.
The Northern Gulf stream is now very warm near the American eastcost but cools off when going over the ocean to Northern Europe.
However The Southern Gulf stream heading for Southern Europe is warm.
Could it be that the melting of Greenland ice already are affecting the Gulf stream?
Well. Time will tell...

Oh Swedish contribution to Germanys climate problem:)

"Is that the Swedish Allemansrätt?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vattenfall

That graphic Jann is updated aprox every 2 days but gives you a idea of what's going on .

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That graphic Jann is updated aprox every 2 days but gives you a idea of what's going on .

Thanks for the link Glenn.
Maybe I don't check it soo often so I get depressed.
But a nice song could chear you up:)
https://youtu.be/ZTFFOr_G6ZM

That graphic Jann is updated aprox every 2 days but gives you a idea of what's going on .

Thanks for the link Glenn.
Maybe I don't check it soo often so I get depressed.
But a nice song could chear you up:)

I wouldn't worry too much big leaps in Solar , Battery Power ,Wind hopefully over the next 20 years will be enough to turn all the Gas, Coal and Petrol Cars off

Your Lucky it will be warmer and wetter .

Not so good in other places thou . Just worry for your self and we will both be dead of old age by then it's the next Gen's problem to suffer through . :-(

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Your Lucky it will be warmer and wetter .
Not so good in other places thou . Just worry for your self and we will both be dead of old age by then it's the next Gen's problem to suffer through . :-(

As you say it's the next generations who will suffer.
So far I can't really complain about the weather over here.
It's already summer here and it's going to be between 24 and 27 degrees Celsius today and no rain:)
Must be a record. It was not long ago that it sometimes happened to snow in mid June!

Your Lucky it will be warmer and wetter .
Not so good in other places thou . Just worry for your self and we will both be dead of old age by then it's the next Gen's problem to suffer through . :-(

As you say it's the next generations who will suffer.
So far I can't really complain about the weather over here.
It's already summer here and it's going to be between 24 and 27 degrees Celsius today and no rain:)
Must be a record. It was not long ago that it sometimes happened to snow in mid June!

Speaking of global warming in Scandinavia...
It's now only 19 degrees Celsius with rain and thunders.
Well. it's not easy to predict weather.

... Not so good in other places thou . Just worry for your self and we will both be dead of old age by then it's the next Gen's problem to suffer through . :-(

Unfortunately so.

So instead of those in power and pollution being "old and wise", what we see is continuing "old and belligerently selfish" and the younger people are to be damned...

Perhaps we really do need a revolution to force some positive change?...


Here are yet more recent examples of extreme denial:


Exxon: An inconvenient truth

In the hot and humid conditions of downtown Dallas, the #Exxonknew ice sculpture - erected by environmental campaigners to suggest the company had known about the science of climate change but had failed to act - did not last too long...

... Exxon and others, green groups say, will be shown to have misled investors and the public about the true state of climate science and will be fined, condemned and buried...

... This is a very big issue for Exxon Mobil as the shareholders believe current investigations into the alleged undermining of climate science are an assault on their First-Amendment rights.

"The fact that people have different opinions on climate change; they have every right to their opinion, whether we agree with it or not - I will support their right to say so," said Mr Tillerson to a hefty ovation.

It is a little ironic, then, that he did not want to extend that same right to all of the press, as the Guardian newspaper was told it was not welcome at the shareholder meeting.

The more under the cosh Exxon feels, the less likely it is to embrace the ideas of outsiders, however mild. If its shareholders are really to take the steps many want on climate change or indeed anything else, green groups will need to find another means.

They will not be told.


Australia removed from UN world heritage climate report

All references to climate change's impact on World Heritage sites in Australia have been removed from a United Nations report.

A draft of the report contained a chapter on the Great Barrier Reef and references to Kakadu and Tasmania.

But Australia's Department of the Environment requested that Unesco scrub these sections from the final version. A statement from the department said the report could have had an impact on tourism...

... Prof Steffen was sceptical about official explanations that the report risked causing confusion over the status of the reef and could impact tourism.

"There's no substance to either of those arguments," he said.

"There was no mention at all that the Great Barrier Reef might be listed as endangered. There was also a paragraph at the end that discussed steps the Australian government is taking to mitigate risks to the reef."...

... It is not clear why Unesco agreed to the government's request to remove the passages.


Ancient crayfish and worms may die out together

... They warn that such a sweeping coextinction is a genuine threat, particularly as modern-day climate change steepens the warming of Australia that has shaped and shrivelled the creatures' shared habitat over the millennia.

Forestry and other environmental changes add to the risk.

"In Australia, freshwater crayfish are large, diverse and active 'managers', recycling all sorts of organic material and working the sediments," ...

"The temnocephalan worms associated only with these crayfish are also diverse, reflecting a long, shared history and offering a unique window on ancient symbioses. We now risk extinction of many of these partnerships, which will lead to degradation of their previous habitats and leave science [and our world] the poorer."



All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

There have been reports that the Great barrier Reef has had a major bleaching and it effects 90% of the reef and has caused most of it to die .

This is incorrect

Yes there has been a major bleaching event however

Only the northern 1/3 of the reef has damage of up to 90% this has occurred from approx. Townsville up to the tip of Australia

From approx. 150klm north of Brisbane north to Townsville there has only been approx. 40% damage

From 150klm north of Brisbane down to End of Frazer Island there has been only a 15% damage and this part of the reef is ok

So long as there is not another major bleaching in the next 5-8 years the bottom 2/3 of the reef will recover however the top 1/3 will need approx. 20 years to recover .

So if you have never seen the Great Barrier Reef and have always wished to see it then I would not put off plans to come and see it as it may well be completely gone in the next 20 years as there will be another major Bleaching in this time .

If you wish to see it in it's full glory then visit it now and stay around Brisbane and the southern part of the reef as that part is still ok but not for much longer .

Australia is about to spend a lot of money to try and fix it but to be honest it's already to late we can't cool the oceans down and nothing we really do will stop it .

We are going to help it thou by trying to kill the other big threat to the reef and it is a star fish called the Crown of Thorn Starfish witch has been destroying the reef for approx. 20 years now . In fact the Crown of Thorn Star fish is actually a bigger threat than the bleaching is , and it is occurring across the whole reef from top in the north to the bottom in the south .

So don't wait to long to come and see 1 of the worlds 7 natural wonders before it dies and becomes a reef of green algae and most of the tropical fish disappear .

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Not only coral reefs.
Crustaceans as well.

A Maine oyster hatchery is sounding the alarm about climate changes effect on the shellfish industry. Greenhouse gas emissions are making the ocean more acidic, which can interfere with the ability of oysters to develop their shells.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/ca74d751539f47f8a0ac07404327530e.htm

Warning there is now a very bad trend occurring in the South pole .

For the first time we are seeing the Sea Ice Extent in the South pole drop below the 2% deviation and this is now showing the resent announcement from the Cape Grim station that CO2 exceeded the 400-ppm .

When the northern hemisphere hit 390 ppm as a average we saw the north pole melt buy 1/3 in just one season . 9 years later we are about to see the north pole completely melt .

The South pole has now reach a average of 390 and we are now seeing rapid melting of the pole .

If we use the North pole as a example then we may well see the south pole melt in just 10 years from now .

If your buy the ocean then you will need to sell up (if you can find someone stupid enough to buy it ) and move to higher ground within the next 10 -15 years .

I would move to somewhere you can be at least 35-50 meters above the current ocean level to be safe as the scientists say the Oceans may rise up to 35-70 meters from where they are now

There is a old saying in the Bible Mathew 7:24-27

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

Heed the warning from the Bible abandon your house and take the loss and do it quickly the run away Green house is now in play and all simulations are null and void

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Warning there is now a very bad trend occurring in the South pole .

For the first time we are seeing the Sea Ice Extent in the South pole drop below the 2% deviation and this is now showing the resent announcement from the Cape Grim station that CO2 exceeded the 400-ppm .

When the northern hemisphere hit 390 ppm as a average we saw the north pole melt buy 1/3 in just one season . 9 years later we are about to see the north pole completely melt .

The South pole has now reach a average of 390 and we are now seeing rapid melting of the pole .

If we use the North pole as a example then we may well see the south pole melt in just 10 years from now .

If your buy the ocean then you will need to sell up (if you can find someone stupid enough to buy it ) and move to higher ground within the next 10 -15 years .

I would move to somewhere you can be at least 35-50 meters above the current ocean level to be safe as the scientists say the Oceans may rise up to 35-70 meters from where they are now

There is a old saying in the Bible Mathew 7:24-27

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

Heed the warning from the Bible abandon your house and take the loss and do it quickly the run away Green house is now in play and all simulations are null and void

I should be quite safe then... I live at about 200 meters above MSL. <GRIN>

I should be quite safe then... I live at about 200 meters above MSL. <GRIN>

You may stay 'safe' from the rising waters...

Meanwhile, how safe will you be from the displaced people, extreme weather, and all the other ever more unsafe and expensive upheaval...


All on our only one planet...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I should be quite safe then... I live at about 200 meters above MSL. <GRIN>

You may stay 'safe' from the rising waters...

Meanwhile, how safe will you be from the displaced people, extreme weather, and all the other ever more unsafe and expensive upheaval...

He has the second amendment ....

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