You seem to think that India, majority owner of the plant in Bophal wanted the leak.

No but from what i know of it , it was not bad employees it was management that would not keep the maintenance up to standard that caused that accident , it was cost cutting . I still can't believe that no wone has ever been jailed for that . 10,000 people affected something like 3,000 dead

If you want some other examples, Chernobyl,

Well that was bad employees but also a bad manegement structure and was not owed by a company but the state so not the same .

Three Mile Island

can't comment don't know enough about what happand there

Fukushima

we know why it happened a Earth quake , but when they built it they did not know the land would drop some 2 mtres i think because of the quake , and yes i will agree that was more to do with knowing the future but those things are not the same as what Peebody has try'd to do

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Three hours to shut down a BIG leaking oil pipe?...

Oil and pollution are far too cheap for the fiduciary duty and everyone else and the environment and the world be damned:



Workers race to clean California oil spill that spans nine miles

Two oil slicks, stretching nine miles, have formed off the coast of southern California after an onshore pipeline ruptured...

... "It smells like what they use to pave the roads," Fan Yang told the Associated Press news agency. "I'm sad for the birds, if they lose their habitat".

The spill happened on the same stretch of beach as a 1969 spill - one that is credited with starting the American environmental movement...

... The alarm was first raised on Tuesday when authorities received reports of a foul smell near Refugio State Beach around midday... The pipeline was shut off about three hours later.

The area has been closed to recreational and fishing activities...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

From my own recollection and personal opinion of those:

You seem to think that India, majority owner of the plant in Bophal wanted the leak.

No but from what i know of it , it was not bad employees it was management that would not keep the maintenance up to standard that caused that accident , it was cost cutting . I still can't believe that no wone has ever been jailed for that . 10,000 people affected something like 3,000 dead

Critical equipment failed and was left unrepaired for weeks.

The accident was just waiting to happen and was almost guaranteed to happen at some point. To my mind, completely criminally negligent, completely avoidable, and should never have happened.

The cost of the catastrophe is vastly greater than the cost of repairing the failed cooling unit central to the subsequent failures.

The area is still poisoning people and those responsible appear to have walked away unconcerned and still in profit.

If you want some other examples, Chernobyl,

Well that was bad employees but also a bad manegement structure and was not owed by a company but the state so not the same .

A "4am" accident of staff and management blithely blundering onwards despite not understanding what was happening. The procedure was being operated very late and by the wrong shift of people...

A classic descent into the scenario of the "disaster pit".

Three Mile Island

can't comment don't know enough about what happand there

Another 4am descent into the disaster pit:

Operator confusion and error with added confusion from a control valve that was stuck open by 0.007". The operators refused to believe their equipment!...

Fukushima

we know why it happened a Earth quake , but when they built it they did not know the land would drop some 2 mtres i think because of the quake , and yes i will agree that was more to do with knowing the future but those things are not the same as what Peebody has try'd to do

The earth stayed where it was. The plant survived the earth quake.

External grid power for the electric cooling pumps was lost and so the diesel back up generators powered up to keep things cool.

Then later, the tsunami overwhelmed the sea defenses and flooded the plant and killed all the backup generators. The plant stayed cool using backup BATTERIES to power the cooling pumps for long enough to get replacement generators that were available nearby. However, Japanese pride got in the way of calling for help...

The design and layout of the plant was already listed as dangerously vulnerable to a tsunami. Higher sea defenses had not been put in place for the sake of cost and aesthetics. The operators and government were gambling that no nearby earthquake typical of the area would occur whilst the plant was in operation!


Such is the cost of corrupt operation and hasty timelines compromising safety.


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Just for a bit of fun and give the Deniers some hope there write about the data being fiddled with to suit there narrative .

I went to check out the ice in the Antartic today and one of there pictures that show the South pole has changed , there is a massive Island on there map which is connected to the South pole by ice . Check it out , somebody has done something wrong or pushed the wrong buttons . We are in big trouble if the map is correct

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

just click on the picture and then on the arrow till you get to the South pole . wonder how long it will stay up before they relize they have goofed up .

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Just for a bit of fun and give the Deniers some hope there write about the data being fiddled with to suit there narrative .

I went to check out the ice in the Antartic today and one of there pictures that show the South pole has changed , there is a massive Island on there map which is connected to the South pole by ice . Check it out , somebody has done something wrong or pushed the wrong buttons . We are in big trouble if the map is correct

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

just click on the picture and then on the arrow till you get to the South pole . wonder how long it will stay up before they relize they have goofed up .

Thanks for the link Glenn.

A darker mood...

Greenland’s snow and ice was significantly darker in the summer of 2014 than in 2013, and similar to 2011. This darkening trend is apparent in the comparison of the past 15 years of average summer (June through August) reflectivity, shown in Figure 5b. The darker snow absorbs more sunlight, leading to earlier melt onset and overall more melting, even if air temperature conditions are similar to previous years (as was the case in northwestern Greenland in 2014). Darker snow is a result of increased soot, dust, and even microbes in the snow, and the general trend of warmer summer conditions. Snow also darkens over time as jagged snowflakes evolve into rounder snow crystals. The larger snow grain size allows more light to be absorbed by the snow.

http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
Longer melting periods with darker snow and with higher temperatures leads to....

Larger snow grain appears in spring and called "sugar" by skiers.
For 50 years ago every people from the Nordic countries could ski.
Not anymore because lack of snow.
My brother in law from England commented our positioning of feets when walking.
Instead of putting them straight forward we put them in a V shape.

Just for a bit of fun and give the Deniers some hope there write about the data being fiddled with to suit there narrative .

I went to check out the ice in the Antartic today and one of there pictures that show the South pole has changed , there is a massive Island on there map which is connected to the South pole by ice . Check it out , somebody has done something wrong or pushed the wrong buttons . We are in big trouble if the map is correct

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

just click on the picture and then on the arrow till you get to the South pole . wonder how long it will stay up before they relize they have goofed up .

Thanks for the link Glenn.

For their Antarctic map, rather a curious mapping goof-up!

Meanwhile, the projection used for their Arctic map looks a little strange to the unexpected eye. I guess we don't get to see polar projections very often in daily life!

And more interestingly looking at the charts...

The Arctic ice loss continues scarily quickly, including the natural variation but all consistently towards ever less ice on average. Meanwhile the Antarctic ice is slowly increasing as expected.

Note that only charting ice extent is rather misleading. I strongly suspect that the arctic ice volume is decreasing at far faster than linear. That is, what ice is left is getting ever thinner.

I strongly suspect that we will see a sudden ice collapse where the darkness of the exposed sea water warmed by the sun rapidly melts what was a cold reflective patchwork quilt of thin ice. The present assumed linear decline for sea ice extent will then suddenly terminate at some critical threshold.

Do we really want to gamble at what point that is?...


Canada, Russia, and their dirty fossil corruption, are all eagerly awaiting the collapse of the ice so that they can spread their pollution further, quickly, all before their operations and profits are killed by the damage they have done.

And our climate simulations show that should the ice disappear too quickly, and the ocean circulation is stopped too quickly, we then suffer ferocious heat at the equator, extreme cold at one or both poles, and then we get a run-away disaster to a snowball earth.

Ice reflects most of the sun's heat to stay cold whereas the ocean absorbs most of the sun's heat to become warmer. You cannot stop the laws of physics freezing the earth if we have no warm equatorial water circulating to stop the advance of ice from the super frigid poles...

Hopefully we will not go that far, but that is quite a gamble for industrially poisoning our atmosphere and weather patterns and ocean circulation.

A darker mood...

Greenland’s snow and ice was significantly darker in the summer of 2014 than in 2013, and similar to 2011. This darkening trend is apparent in the comparison of the past 15 years of average summer (June through August) reflectivity, shown in Figure 5b. The darker snow absorbs more sunlight, leading to earlier melt onset and overall more melting, even if air temperature conditions are similar to previous years (as was the case in northwestern Greenland in 2014). Darker snow is a result of increased soot, dust, and even microbes in the snow, and the general trend of warmer summer conditions. Snow also darkens over time as jagged snowflakes evolve into rounder snow crystals. The larger snow grain size allows more light to be absorbed by the snow.

http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
Longer melting periods with darker snow and with higher temperatures leads to....

Larger snow grain appears in spring and called "sugar" by skiers.
For 50 years ago every people from the Nordic countries could ski.
Not anymore because lack of snow.
My brother in law from England commented our positioning of feet when walking.
Instead of putting them straight forward we put them in a V shape.

The poles are changing the most rapidly and also they suffer the greatest extremes of seasons. There is a lot of rapid change that can be tripped over for those areas depending on what melts/changes first and by how far... We are seeing the fringes of that already.


We really are insanely blithely pushing onwards on an industrial pollution experiment on a global scale with ever increasing consequences. Completely insane.

Have we learnt nothing from the old story of CFC pollution?


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Old Swedish saying "Who remember the snow that fell last year".

And our climate simulations show that should the ice disappear too quickly, and the ocean circulation is stopped too quickly, we then suffer ferocious heat at the equator, extreme cold at one or both poles, and then we get a run-away disaster to a snowball earth.

My guess is that this scenario is going to happen sooner than we Think.
Mass extinction number 6?

Global warming leads to colder and wetter climate in the Scandinavian countries. Perhaps British Isles as well.
Thats because there will be more clouds and rain in the future.

And Seattle of course.

Martin you probably know this but the sea ice in the south is increasing because the glaciers are moving more ice to the ocean quicker which means it's melting quicker and quicker each year .
There saying the western ice sheet may collapse soon as it's getting thinner . Very worrying

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Martin you probably know this but the sea ice in the south is increasing because the glaciers are moving more ice to the ocean quicker which means it's melting quicker and quicker each year .
There saying the western ice sheet may collapse soon as it's getting thinner . Very worrying

I remember when Antarctis "calfed" a huge chunk of ice some years ago.
I Think it was about the size of Gotland in the Baltic sea!

Yep when they break off the south pole there freaking huge bergs but they take years to actually melt and don't move to far away from the pole .
250 meters thick and 50 k's wide and 200 k's long

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Yep when they break off the south pole there freaking huge bergs but they take years to actually melt and don't move to far away from the pole .
250 meters thick and 50 k's wide and 200 k's long

That's about 2.5 billion metric tons!
So far so good because it it take a LOT of energy taken from the global temperature to melt that.
The enthalpy of fusion also known as (latent) heat of fusion is the change in enthalpy resulting from heating a given quantity of a substance to change its state from a solid to a liquid. The temperature at which this occurs is the melting point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_fusion
But what happens when there are no ice left?

But what happens when there are no ice left?

Seen the movie Water World ? That the idea behind the movie , both poles melt

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But what happens when there are no ice left?

Seen the movie Water World ? That the idea behind the movie , both poles melt

Yes. With Kevin Costner as both director and actor:) I don't remember so much of the Movie.
I dont Think we have to move underwater to survive.
But we need animals and plants that lives above the waterline to survive...

btw Heat of fusion for water is 334 Joule per gram.

Janne in Water Word nobody lived under water , they lived on artifical islands and old shipping tankers or Boats . There is a small girl with a tattoo of a map on her back that shows where there is land . You find out the map is upside down on her back and the island is the Antartic which you find out near the end of the movie , yes it's the right movie Kevin Costner

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Cod, haddock, and other Atlantic fish, which used to be confined to the southwest part of the Barents Sea, are now moving rapidly northward. Meanwhile, Arctic fish like sculpin and snailfish are retreating to the northernmost parts of the sea, according to a new paper published in Nature Climate Change.
http://barentsobserver.com/en/nature/2015/05/cod-haddock-moving-north-barents-sea-take-over-27-05
Another recent study from the Institute of Marine Research found that while cod stocks have improved over the last decade, the number and body condition of harp seals have declined.
“There’s a cost of having a big cod population, I think,” said Ulf Lindstrøm, one of the study’s authors. “Because they compete for food.”
Lindstrøm doesn’t believe the cod stocks will increase indefinitely. But he said the “take-over” of the Atlantic species is a striking example of the effects of climate change, seen in real time.

“It points out that things can go really fast when you start heating up the system.”

Maybe deniers should stay some time in Tromsö, northern Norway, and see what global heating does in real time right now!

...“It points out that things can go really fast when you start heating up the system.”

Maybe deniers should stay some time in Tromsö, northern Norway, and see what global heating does in real time right now!

There is much in nature that when established, has evolved to survive well exactly for the conditions that they have evolved to survive, and can 'hang on' for some time when conditions change. Until that is, the change becomes too great and then suddenly all is gone suddenly.

That effect is called reaching a threshold or a tipping point. We are pushing badly at ever more of those as we continue our industrial pollution...


And yet some people are determined to be lost in their denial:

The 'echo chamber' effect misleading people on climate change

... research which could explain why the debate on climate change continues to rumble on, even though there is a solid consensus on the facts of the matter.

Essentially, according to the researchers, people tend to live in "echo chambers" as far as climate matters go, seeking out information and advisers who agree with what they already believe. Thus, they may persist in deluded views regardless of what others think.

"Individuals who get their information from the same sources with the same perspective may be under the impression that theirs is the dominant perspective, regardless of what the science says,"...


Scarily, that strongly includes politicians divorced from reality!

Note how in that article The Register have their own high standards for what groups they will acknowledge with their irreverence!


Ye cannae deny the laws of physics!

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

That effect is called reaching a threshold or a tipping point. We are pushing badly at ever more of those as we continue our industrial pollution...

Those tipping points are VERY hard to predict and there are many of those that could happen and we don't when.
Computer simulations are done 24/7 but it always depends of the input giving, many inputs that in most cases are unknown.
Deniers Always need a simple scientific explanation to whats happening.
Sorry. There are no simple way to explain a chaotic system and to predict the future is impossible.
Scientist can only see trends in a chaotic system and try to convince deniers to Think again.

off topic...
Blue Man Group in Stockholm 2012. Live in the Melody Festival when waiting for votes for the Swedish entry in Eurovision Song Contest:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLlAxq5TaL4

FUD! http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/climate-scientists-warm-to-new-brawl/story-e6frg6xf-1227385456622

A new paper claiming the 15-year hiatus in global surface temperature did not exist and was the result of poor data has rekindled controversy over the treatment of historic records by climate scientists.

Yes, if the original data doesn't fit the necessary result of the theory, then you must massage it so it does fit the predetermined conclusion.

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Change? I've looked Same Same to UnCritical Naked EyeDom fO Hundreds upon Hundreds of Years. Sho, I was Standin', then Knocked Down, and Up Again, but, Same Same Whole Time Cool Lava Rockin' Dr. HOHUM.

NO DATA, FACTS, EVIDENCE, INFERENCE, RESEARCH, PAPERS, STUDIES, HYPOWHATEVER, THEORIES, STATISTICKticks, BRAINIACTING or 'Other' MUMBO JUMBO 'is' Gunna CHANGE Me.

Only LIES LIES and mO LIES Change. Into LIES LIES LIES and mO LIES.

HOHUM, Always Same Same. Beat dat DRum DRum.

SNORE ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Gary i clicked on the link and it says

YOU HAVE REACHED A SUBSCRIBER SECTION so i can't read the articule but i don't need to .

This is my answer


The Australian is published by News Corp Australia, an asset of News Corp, which also owns the sole dailies in Brisbane, Adelaide, Hobart and Darwin and the most popular metropolitan dailies in Sydney and Melbourne. News Corp's Chairman and Founder is Rupert Murdoch

The biggest climate denier there is

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