Are humans born evil? II

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Message 1603292 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 22:24:36 UTC - in response to Message 1603272.  
Last modified: 20 Nov 2014, 22:25:09 UTC

Crime rates are dropping, how is that a system which 'continues to fail society consistently'?

Crime rates are dropping because an increasing number of crime reports results in that a crime can not be proved.
After some decades there will be no crimes committed!
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Message 1603296 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 22:32:15 UTC - in response to Message 1603292.  

Crime rates are dropping, how is that a system which 'continues to fail society consistently'?

Crime rates are dropping because an increasing number of crime reports results in that a crime can not be proved.

& all because the coppers are too busy serving themselves.
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Message 1603297 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 22:35:19 UTC - in response to Message 1603290.  

& from what has been seen over the past decade, a self-serving one!

Give it another couple of decades and you will catch up, but you will have to toss in some activist labor unions and more corruption in your political process.
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Message 1603301 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 22:40:14 UTC - in response to Message 1603296.  
Last modified: 20 Nov 2014, 22:40:44 UTC

Crime rates are dropping, how is that a system which 'continues to fail society consistently'?

Crime rates are dropping because an increasing number of crime reports results in that a crime can not be proved.

& all because the coppers are too busy serving themselves.

Coppers are spending a LOT of hours to make reports in computer systems that are not suited for there needs.
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Message 1603405 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 3:42:28 UTC - in response to Message 1603304.  

He is a former police officer. He was in the vengeance business. Without some class of subhuman victimizers he could not do vengeance. If the victimizers are also victims and therefore human, how could he extract vengeance? After all it is only through being able to discriminate a class as subhuman that he could operate. You can find a similar thought process at a Klavern.

Very insightful regarding YOUR thinking.

Just an exercise, as in other Posts, of 'Oh, aren't we better than another'. Similar to Right Wing Puritan Thinking.

Prisons are filled with Victims? YES!!!! So?

Just wish an answer to the following question, previously asked.

Do you really have empathy with Rapists, Murderer's, Beheader's?

EMPATHY for those who commit these crimes against YOUR loved ones?

Yes.
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Message 1603578 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 12:25:39 UTC - in response to Message 1603405.  

He is a former police officer. He was in the vengeance business. Without some class of subhuman victimizers he could not do vengeance. If the victimizers are also victims and therefore human, how could he extract vengeance? After all it is only through being able to discriminate a class as subhuman that he could operate. You can find a similar thought process at a Klavern.

Very insightful regarding YOUR thinking.
Just an exercise, as in other Posts, of 'Oh, aren't we better than another'. Similar to Right Wing Puritan Thinking.
Prisons are filled with Victims? YES!!!! So?
Just wish an answer to the following question, previously asked.
Do you really have empathy with Rapists, Murderer's, Beheader's?
EMPATHY for those who commit these crimes against YOUR loved ones?

Yes.

What?
In order to do that you need psychiatric care and medication.
Most people cant afford it.
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Message 1603643 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 16:27:56 UTC - in response to Message 1603590.  

EMPATHY:

The intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.


You guys Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another (AKA Rapists)?.

Either you guys Identify with Rapists, or don't understand English.

As I said, and was stupidly, or worse, attacked for saying:

I DONT Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of Rapists nor Murderer's.

Are you guys THAT Stupid?

Answer: Yes

Cyde, it does strike me as odd that you can't feel empathy for other people's suffering. If I saw a rapist being tortured to death I will still feel empathy for them and want to stop it. You seem to be able to switch your empathy on an off at will.

So either you are incredibly brutalised and desensitised or you are a psychopath.
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Message 1603662 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 17:24:25 UTC - in response to Message 1603643.  

EMPATHY:
The intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

You guys Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another (AKA Rapists)?.
Either you guys Identify with Rapists, or don't understand English.
As I said, and was stupidly, or worse, attacked for saying:
I DONT Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of Rapists nor Murderer's.
Are you guys THAT Stupid?
Answer: Yes

Cyde, it does strike me as odd that you can't feel empathy for other people's suffering. If I saw a rapist being tortured to death I will still feel empathy for them and want to stop it. You seem to be able to switch your empathy on an off at will.
So either you are incredibly brutalised and desensitised or you are a psychopath.

@Es99 Do you live on this planet?
Who can feel empathy to a person that does not feel any empathy at all, none whats so ever?
Now you even suggest that people not having your fantasy idea of empathy are brutalised or psychopaths.
Get real.
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Message 1603667 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 17:46:09 UTC - in response to Message 1603662.  

EMPATHY:
The intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

You guys Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another (AKA Rapists)?.
Either you guys Identify with Rapists, or don't understand English.
As I said, and was stupidly, or worse, attacked for saying:
I DONT Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of Rapists nor Murderer's.
Are you guys THAT Stupid?
Answer: Yes

Cyde, it does strike me as odd that you can't feel empathy for other people's suffering. If I saw a rapist being tortured to death I will still feel empathy for them and want to stop it. You seem to be able to switch your empathy on an off at will.
So either you are incredibly brutalised and desensitised or you are a psychopath.

@Es99 Do you live on this planet?
Who can feel empathy to a person that does not feel any empathy at all, none whats so ever?
Now you even suggest that people not having your fantasy idea of empathy are brutalised or psychopaths.
Get real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder wrote:
ICD-10 It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
    Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
    Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
    Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
    Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
    Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
    Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.


I'd suggest anyone witnessing torture to death or a rapist and not feeling anything is exhibiting 3 things, possibly 4 on the list.

So I think ES is pretty much on target.
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Message 1603677 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 18:12:19 UTC - in response to Message 1603667.  
Last modified: 21 Nov 2014, 18:24:12 UTC

EMPATHY:
The intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

You guys Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another (AKA Rapists)?.
Either you guys Identify with Rapists, or don't understand English.
As I said, and was stupidly, or worse, attacked for saying:
I DONT Identify, or have vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of Rapists nor Murderer's.
Are you guys THAT Stupid?
Answer: Yes

Cyde, it does strike me as odd that you can't feel empathy for other people's suffering. If I saw a rapist being tortured to death I will still feel empathy for them and want to stop it. You seem to be able to switch your empathy on an off at will.
So either you are incredibly brutalised and desensitised or you are a psychopath.

@Es99 Do you live on this planet?
Who can feel empathy to a person that does not feel any empathy at all, none whats so ever?
Now you even suggest that people not having your fantasy idea of empathy are brutalised or psychopaths.
Get real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder wrote:
ICD-10 It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
    Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
    Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
    Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
    Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
    Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
    Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.


I'd suggest anyone witnessing torture to death or a rapist and not feeling anything is exhibiting 3 things, possibly 4 on the list.

So I think ES is pretty much on target.

Yes I totally agree to this.
But the example given is way out of line.
How many rapist being tortured to death is there?

Most criminals have empathy.
But not all. The evil ones.
What about them?

In the US, one of the few countries that have capital punishment, it is an option to watch the execution:(
Where is the empathy?
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Message 1603731 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 21:15:57 UTC - in response to Message 1603643.  

If I saw a rapist being tortured to death I will still feel empathy for them


Me as well Ess, but I would still be angry at that
person for making me deal with all of those things.

All during my career as a public minder, crimes against children
always upset me, and some things still haunt me to this day.
It is just that I refuse to let another person's illness also make a
victim of me by taking away my humanity. Most of my work mates also
are very disturbed by the hurt, and pain they see every day. I found
out that after I finished my working life, some things from that life still
need working on. Again I state: "People are not born evil, they are just
not born wise."


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Message 1603738 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 21:34:01 UTC

What's with the 'name-calling' here:)) *Jule tiptoeing out of thread*
rOZZ
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Message 1603828 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 0:47:04 UTC

This is what humanity is capable of:

forgiveness and reconciliation, the Spirit of Enniskillen

Gordon Wilson lived very much on this planet.
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Message 1603835 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 0:59:03 UTC - in response to Message 1603828.  

This is what humanity is capable of:

forgiveness and reconciliation, the Spirit of Enniskillen

Gordon Wilson lived very much on this planet.

"I bear no ill will. I bear no grudge"

Very powerful.
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Message 1603997 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 10:31:44 UTC - in response to Message 1603677.  


Yes I totally agree to this.
But the example given is way out of line.
How many rapist being tortured to death is there?

Well technically we don't call it torture, but the difference between prison and torture is just semantics. So its not as rare as you suggest.
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Message 1604001 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 10:42:44 UTC - in response to Message 1603922.  
Last modified: 22 Nov 2014, 10:44:23 UTC

No "ill will" against those who have Brutally Raped and Murdered YOUR Infant Child?

After that has happened to YOUR Child: Then, and only then, will you have any real understanding.

Or will you still have Empathy FOR this vile and evil person, who has slaughtered YOUR Child.

So as a response, you think its okay to dehumanize and victimize? You realize this sets off a vicious circle right? Because believe it or not, but criminals have loved ones as well. They have children, wives, girlfriends, parents, grandparents and friends. So to compensate for the loss of one group of people, you brutally punish and torture another person while being completely indifferent about the suffering you cause there. To compensate for one set of victims, you create another set of victims. But how does that help anyone? The first set of victims are still victims, all you do is create even more victims. So they can all feel miserable together?

And why? Because you don't see criminals as people with thoughts and feelings and friends and loved ones, much like yourself, because you cannot cope with the idea that you are just one bad day, one mistake removed from being branded as a criminal yourself. You are not scared of them, you are scared of yourself, and to compensate for that fear, you dehumanize criminals so they don't look so much like you.

While you keep harping on about how we cannot know what its like until we become victims of a crime, I think that you cannot know what your attitude leads to until you commit a crime. See what its like when no one is willing to acknowledge your humanity or integrity as a person when you made a mistake and have to pay for it the rest of your life.
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Message 1604039 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 13:59:51 UTC - in response to Message 1603997.  
Last modified: 22 Nov 2014, 14:06:52 UTC


Yes I totally agree to this.
But the example given is way out of line.
How many rapist being tortured to death is there?

Well technically we don't call it torture, but the difference between prison and torture is just semantics. So its not as rare as you suggest.

OK. There are many prisoners who takes their own lifes while they are imprisoned.
But for serial rapist, mass murderers and other violent offenders, there is no other way than to separate them from other people.
I think it would be a crime not to do it.
Why should innocent people suffer for criminals well being?

I have empathy for the victims who lack empathy for their perpetrators.
I know that's not Politically Correct but there you go.
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Message 1604040 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 14:04:59 UTC - in response to Message 1604039.  

OK. There are many prisoners who takes their own lifes while they are imprisoned.
But for serial rapist, mass murderers and other violent offenders, there is no other way than to separate them from other people.
I think it would be a crime not to do it.
Why should innocent people suffer for criminals well being?

Where has anyone said that being empathetic towards criminals means you can't lock them up for their crimes? Being empathetic towards them as human beings does in no way negate the fact that they did something horrible and as such need to bear the consequences of their actions and be punished.

So of course we must lock rapists and murderers away. But even when they are prison, we must remember to see them as humans and treat them as humans. Which is something a lot of current prison systems do not do. So see this as a call for better prison conditions with a bigger focus on rehabilitation instead of brutal punishment.
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Message 1604046 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 14:27:46 UTC - in response to Message 1604040.  

So of course we must lock rapists and murderers away. But even when they are prison, we must remember to see them as humans and treat them as humans. Which is something a lot of current prison systems do not do. So see this as a call for better prison conditions with a bigger focus on rehabilitation instead of brutal punishment.

Sounds very good to me.
But (there is always a but) evil rapist and evil murderers often do not respond to rehabilitation and penalty as a deterrent method does not work.

Bigger focus to crime prevention looks even better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_prevention
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Message 1604051 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 15:02:02 UTC - in response to Message 1604047.  

Repost -

EMPATHY:
The intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

I DON'T believe anyone, in this Thread, Identifies with Rapist's. Am I incorrect?
I DON'T believe anyone, in this Thread, is Vicariously Experiencing what a Rapist Experiences. Am I incorrect?
I DON'T believe anyone, in this Thread, is Experiencing The Thoughts or Attitudes, of a Rapist. Am I incorrect?
Perhaps this is just a misunderstanding of the meaning of an English Word.
Are many of the Poster's misunderstanding and misusing the word Empathy, and really mean Understanding, Sympathy, etc.?
Then their Posts would make sense.
If I am incorrect in this possibility: God help us.

You are correct.
But you are also "Politically Incorrect"
I have learnt that's a big difference.
Basicly it's means "Shut up and play along" :)
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Message boards : Politics : Are humans born evil? II


 
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